F1 2023 Season

Max Verstappen says he's sampled in Red Bull's simulator models of Formula 1's 2026 hybrid cars, and so far the Dutchman is far from impressed with what he has seen.
Formula 1's next-generation cars will evenly divide the power generated by the internal combustion engine and the increased battery and hybrid system.
However, worries have surfaced regarding the risk of drivers experiencing battery depletion halfway through a lap, or having to perform unconventional actions like downshifting on a straight.

Verstappen: Sim data for 2026 F1 cars 'look pretty terrible' (f1i.com)

2 and half years to get it right, hopefully more teams will be challenging and not just one team. Iam a Lewis fan , when he was winning everything it was boring, now Max is winning everything it is boring, just like it was when Seb was winning and Sch before that. Hopefully it will go back to the time when you had 3 or 4 teams all closely matched. Prost, Senna, Lauda, Mansell Berger and Piquet all winning races.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Max Verstappen says he's sampled in Red Bull's simulator models of Formula 1's 2026 hybrid cars, and so far the Dutchman is far from impressed with what he has seen.
Formula 1's next-generation cars will evenly divide the power generated by the internal combustion engine and the increased battery and hybrid system.
However, worries have surfaced regarding the risk of drivers experiencing battery depletion halfway through a lap, or having to perform unconventional actions like downshifting on a straight.

Verstappen: Sim data for 2026 F1 cars 'look pretty terrible' (f1i.com)

2 and half years to get it right, hopefully more teams will be challenging and not just one team. Iam a Lewis fan , when he was winning everything it was boring, now Max is winning everything it is boring, just like it was when Seb was winning and Sch before that. Hopefully it will go back to the time when you had 3 or 4 teams all closely matched. Prost, Senna, Lauda, Mansell Berger and Piquet all winning races.
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Half the reason other teams are probably not saying anything, is because the media would be like what are ye looking at the 2026 already when the are driving a bucket of shite, whereas RB are so far ahead of the field no one would bat an eyelid,

Sooner hydrogen comes to F1 and they ditch some of the batteries the better.
 
christy87 said:
Half the reason other teams are probably not saying anything, is because the media would be like what are ye looking at the 2026 already when the are driving a bucket of shite, whereas RB are so far ahead of the field no one would bat an eyelid,

Sooner hydrogen comes to F1 and they ditch some of the batteries the better.
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I was reading about this a while ago, a couple of teams have mentioned it, but is it not years away for being a viable option.
 
dinostar77 said:
If you thought things were bad, apparently Leclerc didnt even try to defend against verstappen. No point as RB is too fast.

BBC F1

But Leclerc did not even try to defend from Verstappen as the world champion went for the inside at Turn Three.

"I knew it was a matter of time," Leclerc said. "Max had much fresher tyres. They are also quicker whenever we have the same tyres so it's not like I tried to push like crazy.

"I knew it was crucial to lose as little time as possible in this battle. And this is why I haven't been as aggressive as I have been other times when we have been fighting for real positions.

"This one was a bit different. If he hadn't overtaken me (there), it was the lap after and I would have lost more time and it would not have benefited me in the race."

What Leclerc was effectively saying was: "I'm not in Max's race. He's in another one, all on his own. He is too fast to hold back. So there's no point in trying."
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Its definitely not an exciting look for the sport.

I also remember the same when Hamilton had his motor replaced and came from last to 2nd or 1st as well a few years back. The swedish commentators said when he breezed past people on the straights, "its not really overtaking, its more putting down the pedal more and flying past cars on the highway who make no effort to defend as its pointless"

The battle between Hamilton & Verstappen in 2021 was the pinnacle of Formula 1 for our lifetimes when it comes to battling for the title.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I was reading about this a while ago, a couple of teams have mentioned it, but is it not years away for being a viable option.
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Well there is some form of hydrogen car on the road, Toyota have one, I was looking to see what they sounded like and YouTube took me to a video of it being fueled:lol:, so it's not as far away as you'd think and it would keep some form of an ICE
 
Interesting video and I had no idea the idea was so advanced.
The problem I see is that it would need a massive amount spending on infrastructure for it to be viable with domestic cars.
I can see F1 being very interested.
 
christy87 said:
Well there is some form of hydrogen car on the road, Toyota have one, I was looking to see what they sounded like and YouTube took me to a video of it being fueled:lol:, so it's not as far away as you'd think and it would keep some form of an ICE
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70 MPa of highly combustible gas. What could possibly go wrong.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Max Verstappen says he's sampled in Red Bull's simulator models of Formula 1's 2026 hybrid cars, and so far the Dutchman is far from impressed with what he has seen.
Formula 1's next-generation cars will evenly divide the power generated by the internal combustion engine and the increased battery and hybrid system.
However, worries have surfaced regarding the risk of drivers experiencing battery depletion halfway through a lap, or having to perform unconventional actions like downshifting on a straight.

Verstappen: Sim data for 2026 F1 cars 'look pretty terrible' (f1i.com)

2 and half years to get it right, hopefully more teams will be challenging and not just one team. Iam a Lewis fan , when he was winning everything it was boring, now Max is winning everything it is boring, just like it was when Seb was winning and Sch before that. Hopefully it will go back to the time when you had 3 or 4 teams all closely matched. Prost, Senna, Lauda, Mansell Berger and Piquet all winning races.
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F1 is a conplex sport away from the track, which causes all sorts of issues on it. The cost cap was brought in to stop the arms race of the big boys. It helped bring Audi and Honda back to the sport. Unfortuntely its created a situation whereby if you dont nail your design out of the blocks your playing catchup for years potentially.

Also the cost cap has further screwed some of the smaller teams. Firstly some of them dont have the budget to even hit the cost cap ceiling and secondly infrastructure has come under the cost cap which has further screwed them especially if deined an excemption.

Case in point, some of Williams infrastructure i.e. composite materials dept is 20 years out of date. Williams have the money to update the department but FIA have refused an excemption from the cost cap for them to update it. By doing so it would take Williams 10 years to build the department anew under the cost cap and by that time they would be behind the curve of composite materials again.

AM got an excemption for their facilities. Mclaren got one for their new wind tunnel. Why cant Williams have an excemption as well?

The whole Wind Tunnel/CFD scaling is bullshit, if you dont have the cutting edge facilities to exploit the data they produce.

Also to be a contender for the constructors title, or producing a car that might help deliver a WDC requires a team (track and factory) of 600-800 personnel. Only 3 teams have those numbers, the big three. The next closest team? AM who have been on a massive recruitment drive. Any coincidence that AM results and car have massively improved because a) the have new cutting edge facilities at factory and b) they have the same personnel numbers as ferrari, mercedes and redbull.

My ramblings aside, yes we get shit periods in F1 now, 5 years of schmacher, 4 years of vettel, 7 years of hamilton, god knows how many years of verstappen.

When the sport was more amatuer and less science driven i think it was better i.e. 70s to around 1990. Professionalism, technology and giant car manufacturers have taken away some of the enjoyment. How many of the current grid could wrestle a 15,000rpm, 1500bhp, no power steering, a clutch pedal, a turbo that didnt have linear progression, but would deliver power in spikes, manual gear box car, one handed around the streets of monaco, lap after lap, the way mansell, senna, prost, piquet et al used to do?

Gearboxes and engines would need to be replaced after a qually session as they were destroyed. Keke Rosberg once produced a blistering lap in qually to get pole with a slow puncture. Such was the sheer brutal power going through the wheels that it overcame a puncture. Mental

Real men who needed balls of steel, real drivers cars in probably the toughest era of F1 (1977-1988). Now its just too sanitized and frankly dull.
 
dinostar77 said:
F1 is a conplex sport away from the track, which causes all sorts of issues on it. The cost cap was brought in to stop the arms race of the big boys. It helped bring Audi and Honda back to the sport. Unfortuntely its created a situation whereby if you dont nail your design out of the blocks your playing catchup for years potentially.

Also the cost cap has further screwed some of the smaller teams. Firstly some of them dont have the budget to even hit the cost cap ceiling and secondly infrastructure has come under the cost cap which has further screwed them especially if deined an excemption.

Case in point, some of Williams infrastructure i.e. composite materials dept is 20 years out of date. Williams have the money to update the department but FIA have refused an excemption from the cost cap for them to update it. By doing so it would take Williams 10 years to build the department anew under the cost cap and by that time they would be behind the curve of composite materials again.

AM got an excemption for their facilities. Mclaren got one for their new wind tunnel. Why cant Williams have an excemption as well?

The whole Wind Tunnel/CFD scaling is bullshit, if you dont have the cutting edge facilities to exploit the data they produce.

Also to be a contender for the constructors title, or producing a car that might help deliver a WDC requires a team (track and factory) of 600-800 personnel. Only 3 teams have those numbers, the big three. The next closest team? AM who have been on a massive recruitment drive. Any coincidence that AM results and car have massively improved because a) the have new cutting edge facilities at factory and b) they have the same personnel numbers as ferrari, mercedes and redbull.

My ramblings aside, yes we get shit periods in F1 now, 5 years of schmacher, 4 years of vettel, 7 years of hamilton, god knows how many years of verstappen.

When the sport was more amatuer and less science driven i think it was better i.e. 70s to around 1990. Professionalism, technology and giant car manufacturers have taken away some of the enjoyment. How many of the current grid could wrestle a 15,000rpm, 1500bhp, no power steering, a clutch pedal, a turbo that didnt have linear progression, but would deliver power in spikes, manual gear box car, one handed around the streets of monaco, lap after lap, the way mansell, senna, prost, piquet et al used to do?

Gearboxes and engines would need to be replaced after a qually session as they were destroyed. Keke Rosberg once produced a blistering lap in qually to get pole with a slow puncture. Such was the sheer brutal power going through the wheels that it overcame a puncture. Mental

Real men who needed balls of steel, real drivers cars in probably the toughest era of F1 (1977-1988). Now its just too sanitized and frankly dull.
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Driving is definitely too simple for drivers today and they make too little errors, because once you learn the track you can make laps in range of 0,5 difference for 10-15 laps no problem.

Verstappen made one small mistake in Canada in last how many races, and that was when he probably fell asleep during the race.

Also cars are very reliable these days, but then that's because teams and technology is great nowadays.
 
Amar__ said:
Driving is definitely too simple for drivers today and they make too little errors, because once you learn the track you can make laps in range of 0,5 difference for 10-15 laps no problem.

Verstappen made one small mistake in Canada in last how many races, and that was when he probably fell asleep during the race.

Also cars are very reliable these days, but then that's because teams and technology is great nowadays.
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Drivers have been asking for more gravel traps (it keeps them on their toes), but FIA refuse. Look at austria last weekend. If turn 9 and turn 10 had gravel we wouldnt have had any issues with laps being deleted. But apparently the track is used for motoGP and you cant have gravel at those turns.

I asked a chap at work whos been a motoGP mechanic in the past and he said that the explaination for not having gravel at turns 9 and 10 at austria because of motoGP was horseshit.

Bring back gravel traps and max wont fall asleep/get bored while driving as slow as possible to win the race.
 
Windsor not appreciating Toto telling Lewis to drive the car, urges Toto to show Lewis more respect!

https://baylasportsf1.com/windsor-urges-toto-wolff-to-show-more-respect-to-hamilton/?

“I’m surprised. If anything’s going to be driving Lewis crazy it’s going to be stuff like that because, if nothing else, he wants to enjoy his racing now.

“There’s not much else to do because he ain’t going to be winning, the car’s not very good, he’s got the British Grand Prix coming up – his race, if you like – so at least just enjoy it even if he’s midfield.

“But if you’re going to be spoken to like that by your team principal it’s not really fun either, is it? I wouldn’t have thought it was anyway."


4E5w2Az.jpg
 
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christy87 said:
Well there is some form of hydrogen car on the road, Toyota have one, I was looking to see what they sounded like and YouTube took me to a video of it being fueled:lol:, so it's not as far away as you'd think and it would keep some form of an ICE
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There are already hydrogen powered buses operating in London.
 
Lightbringer said:
Its definitely not an exciting look for the sport.

I also remember the same when Hamilton had his motor replaced and came from last to 2nd or 1st as well a few years back. The swedish commentators said when he breezed past people on the straights, "its not really overtaking, its more putting down the pedal more and flying past cars on the highway who make no effort to defend as its pointless"

The battle between Hamilton & Verstappen in 2021 was the pinnacle of Formula 1 for our lifetimes when it comes to battling for the title.
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I agree about the overtaking. It’s impressive in a sense that we’ve seen team mates in the same cars not able to achieve the same things as those two, so they are fairly obviously top drivers.

I dont think we’ll ever go back to the kind of racing we used to see. There’s so much data available to the teams now that drivers know exactly what they need to be doing at all times. It can really make up for deficiencies in race IQ (or whatever you want to call it).
 
Dan_F said:
I agree about the overtaking. It’s impressive in a sense that we’ve seen team mates in the same cars not able to achieve the same things as those two, so they are fairly obviously top drivers.

I dont think we’ll ever go back to the kind of racing we used to see. There’s so much data available to the teams now that drivers know exactly what they need to be doing at all times. It can really make up for deficiencies in race IQ (or whatever you want to call it).
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I’d love for them to remove the ability to provide information from the paddock and just let the drivers figure it out for themselves.

Only allow communications around safety or telling the driver to box via radio.

Would essentially nullify in race team orders too.
 
The Firestarter said:
70 MPa of highly combustible gas. What could possibly go wrong.
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It's actually pretty safe. I won't bore you with all the details but as I understand it the tanks will shear their fittings and vent incredibly quickly in the event of a bad smash, so fire doesn't have time to burn through the tank wall. Because it's so high pressure and therefore vents at such high speed, I think the vented hydrogen also goes from being above the higher explosion limit (i.e. not enough oxygen to burn) to below the lower explosion limit (not enough fuel to burn) really quickly. So during the very quick venting process there's not only a small window in time where you've a potentially explosive gas mixture, there's also only the tiniest window in terms of distance for a fire to start before the gas is fired too far away from the car to burn. I've never seen the calcs but this is what I've been told.
 
TwoSheds said:
It's actually pretty safe. I won't bore you with all the details but as I understand it the tanks will shear their fittings and vent incredibly quickly in the event of a bad smash, so fire doesn't have time to burn through the tank wall. Because it's so high pressure and therefore vents at such high speed, I think the vented hydrogen also goes from being above the higher explosion limit (i.e. not enough oxygen to burn) to below the lower explosion limit (not enough fuel to burn) really quickly. So during the very quick venting process there's not only a small window in time where you've a potentially explosive gas mixture, there's also only the tiniest window in terms of distance for a fire to start before the gas is fired too far away from the car to burn. I've never seen the calcs but this is what I've been told.
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I was thinking more of re-fueling mishaps, it appears like a convoluted process.
 
Aston Martin F1 announces a one-off livery for the British GP due to new partnership with lubricant maker Valvoline.




3dwaKN7.png
 
The Firestarter said:
I was thinking more of re-fueling mishaps, it appears like a convoluted process.
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It's convoluted but that's why they do the automated leak checks and so on. I shouldn't imagine the tank at the station is that big either if they've an electrolyser unit they can trickle feed it with, and I'm sure it's also well protected so would be hard to set fire to it even in the event of an accident or something.
 
Zlaatan said:
The fight for the WC is just as exciting as it's been pretty much every single season over the last 10-12 years bar a year or two, i.e not at all, so nothing's changed there.
The fight for place 2-20 both in qualifying and in races however is fantastic imo, even more so if Mclaren now can get in the mix with Perez, Ferrari, Aston and Merc as well. So if I take off my Ferrari hat I'm enjoying F1 more than I have in a long time, but I get if the casual viewers who might not care about who finishes where outside the top 3, or even outside top spot finds it more boring than ever seeing how far ahead Max is.
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The bit in bold simply isn't true, Lewis had competition from a teammate who was allowed to race him, as well as Vettel in the Ferrari for a couple of seasons. Not the greatest competition, but this year has been a given from the very start, it's far less competitive.

The rest of the field can be pretty interesting, no doubt, but at the top it's as dull as it possibly could be.

redshaw said:
Red Bull pit crew are really impressive as well. With Max coming in and the team reluctant to pit for fastest lap, not worth the risk with pressure of a mistake losing the race they calmly do a 2.3 second stop.
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Red Bull pit teams have been incredibly well drilled for ages, before the pit rule changes they'd regularly gain drivers a big chunk of time during stops.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I think he could be that driver, in that RB I defiantly think he could be close to Max.
I agree at the moment, he would not finish ahead over the season, but would make it more interesting, but I do I think he could get a few race wins.
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goalscholes said:
I have a slightly different take about Max. He’s the best driver on the grid right now, but I think his biggest weakness is he’s very hot headed and starts turning on the team/ breaking the rules when he has genuine competition.

Give him a teammate who can genuinely compete and see how he reacts. I think you’ll get a bitter situation, with drivers ignoring tactical calls and Max making more mistakes.

Which is exactly why it won’t happen.
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Leg-End said:
Prime Rosberg would be amazing, quick but not elite speed but amazing at office politics, lobbying and even a bit of mind games. I really want to know the inside track of 2016, he got very lucky of course but he also got the job done.
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I think @goalscholes and @Leg-End are on to something here - Max is imperious at the moment as there's no pressure, but he didn't cope at all well with the pressure of Lewis chasing him down in the championship.

Rosberg made getting under Hamilton's skin a big part of the strategy that won him a title (along with a healthy chunk of luck regarding reliability), if a driver like Leclerc could replicate that they could definitely beat Max over a season.
 
The Hilton said:
Red Bull pit teams have been incredibly well drilled for ages, before the pit rule changes they'd regularly gain drivers a big chunk of time during stops.
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Yes I know, I didn't suggest otherwise. Have been watching F1 since the 80s.

I was sort of remarking how they're still so good even with the pressure of potentially giving the race away on a mistake and with the team radioing how they didn't want to pit, wasn't worth the risk. The pitcrew would've heard that doubt and could've set in their minds or made some do a careful 3+ second pitstop but no they did a 2.3. I've seen enough Red Bull ~2 seconds pitstops and countless 3-4 second for Merc and seen how pitcrews add a second if the pressure is on.
 
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redshaw said:
Yes I know, I didn't suggest otherwise. Have been watching F1 since the 80s.

I was sort of remarking how they're still so good even with the pressure of potentially giving the race away on a mistake and with the team radioing how they didn't want to pit, wasn't worth the risk. The pitcrew would've heard that doubt and could've set in their minds or made some do a careful 3+ second pitstop but no they did a 2.3. I've seen enough Red Bull ~2 seconds pitstops and countless 3-4 second for Merc and seen how pitcrews add a second if the pressure is on.
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I didn't mean my post as a disagreement, or that it's something new, just that I agree. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

I'm surprised that more of the teams aren't drilling their pit crews more, as the extra second that they often get from stops can be the difference between winning and losing races.
 
The Hilton said:
I didn't mean my post as a disagreement, or that it's something new, just that I agree. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

I'm surprised that more of the teams aren't drilling their pit crews more, as the extra second that they often get from stops can be the difference between winning and losing races.
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Yeah, it's surprising considering how long they've been setting the standard.
 
Why ?

The Italian Grand Prix will have a new-look qualifying format in 2023 after a rescheduling was forced on F1.

Pirelli and F1 wanted to introduce the new system, which would see all three tyre compounds used, at two races this season.

The Hungarian GP will be the first time the format will be seen with hard tyres mandated for Q1, mediums for Q2 and softs for Q3.

It was set to occur for the first time at the Emilia Romagna GP but F1 was forced to cancel the race due to flooding that devastated the local area and parts of the Imola circuit.

Italian GP set for MAJOR change as Pirelli reschedule new qualifying format (msn.com)
 
Perhaps common knowledge to those that watch DTS or follow drivers away from the track but Max is a United fan, news to me anyway.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Why ?

The Italian Grand Prix will have a new-look qualifying format in 2023 after a rescheduling was forced on F1.

Pirelli and F1 wanted to introduce the new system, which would see all three tyre compounds used, at two races this season.

The Hungarian GP will be the first time the format will be seen with hard tyres mandated for Q1, mediums for Q2 and softs for Q3.

It was set to occur for the first time at the Emilia Romagna GP but F1 was forced to cancel the race due to flooding that devastated the local area and parts of the Imola circuit.

Italian GP set for MAJOR change as Pirelli reschedule new qualifying format (msn.com)
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Wasn't that the case two years ago or I am misremembering?
 
Monza has always been a problem with slipstream during qualifying , 2019, only two drivers reached the chequered flag at the end of Q3 as all 10 drivers were trying not to lead through Curva Grande.
 
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The Hilton said:
The bit in bold simply isn't true, Lewis had competition from a teammate who was allowed to race him, as well as Vettel in the Ferrari for a couple of seasons. Not the greatest competition, but this year has been a given from the very start, it's far less competitive.


The rest of the field can be pretty interesting, no doubt, but at the top it's as dull as it possibly could be.
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I agree it's far less competitive this year, it will most likely be the least competitive season in F1 history no doubt, but just because Bottas and Vettel were capable of winning races against Hamilton doesn't mean the overall fights for the WC were exciting. You may not agree but I don't find it particularly exciting when the winning margin to 2nd place is 46, 88, 87 and 124 points respectively.
 
Zlaatan said:
I agree it's far less competitive this year, it will most likely be the least competitive season in F1 history no doubt, but just because Bottas and Vettel were capable of winning races against Hamilton doesn't mean the overall fights for the WC were exciting. You may not agree but I don't find it particularly exciting when the winning margin to 2nd place is 46, 88, 87 and 124 points respectively.
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Final points differences is a misleading way to define the excitement though - when Vettel was pushing him a bit, it ended up comfortable but for the first half season or so it was a fight. Bottas was no threat at all though, you're right there, but at least he was allowed to race, he just wasn't capable of it.

My point wasn't that they were exciting seasons by themselves, but there was at least a bit of a fight. Last season had some intrigue too, but this one is the dullest in memory, and likely this'll continue until the next rule changes.
 
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