That something they were running on the car was deemed illegal by FIA and they are trying to clawback lost performance?
F1 2023 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
That is what my initial thoughts were.
On the reliability side could it also be teams are playing it safer and not taking risks with engine development like Ferrari last season which blew up in there face constantly and so far this season to me it looks like that engine has been dialed down a bit, with more money to be won at the end of the season it's too big a risk to take that sort of a risk again.
I'd be happy to see some of the drivers aids removed, I think some of the drivers would be as well.
Yeah, that was lovely. I think he had another one a few laps before or after that was pretty tasty too. Was it him & Albon battling through a few corners?
Norris had a cracking one hanging it around the outside of Rivage (I think) when it started raining.
Which systems do you mean? These cars already don't have abs, lc, tc (they used to before) The only thing they have is power steering but I think it would be impossible otherwise with these cars. Even the brakes are not amplified additionally.
Good job the engine has nothing to do with performance then! Their engine is as far ahead as anything else.
Their other big advantages are the trick suspension and whatever goes on in the rear diffuser during DRS, neither of which are visible or possible to replicate in scrutineering...
Engine modes, battery power for pushing to overtake, DRS. Make it more the drivers driving skill, not how many buttons he can press to up his power and conserve his power and so on.
The Mercedes/Ferrari and RB engines are level on power. Alpine engine is down 30bhp, which is why they are asking for special measures to bring them up to parity which is allowed under the rules. The team principals had a meeting about it after the belgium gp.
How that power is deployed and the electric motors used is a different conversation.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/229173/wolff-warns-on-alpine-horsepower-deficit.html
Battery power I would love to get removed but it will never happen, in fact its more likely the ICE gets eventually removed. DRS on ground effect cars indeed could be looked into at least for some sort of limitation if not outright removal.
The rest I disagree with. Engines modes have been in F1 for a long time. I don't think it's a competion for button pushing at all.
There are 25 buttons on a F1 steering wheel, with sub menus within submenus. I think there a few hundred different combinations which is why drivers get confused during races when they have to troubleshoot.
Below isnt a mapping of the pic above but does explain some of the buttons. This is why alonso likened current F1 to being a aircraft pilot rather than a racing driver.
1. The button 'N' for Neutral.
2. ‘DRINK’ manages the drink bottle.
3. Radio.
4. Scroll down the dashboard.
5. Scroll up the dashboard.
6. ‘P’ is the pit limiter. When operated, it appears on the screen as ‘PIT LIMITER’ with the instant speed shown together.
7. ‘K2’ activates the DRS.
8. The rotary switch that manages the differential in the middle of the corner.
9. Manages engine braking.
10. 'OIL', activates an additional oil pump to increase lubrication.
11. The rotary 'TRQ' manages engine torque.
12. The clutch on the right side
14. Manages multiple functions, among them the ERS, REC (recovery), Mix (mixture fuel /air).
13. + 15. Number 13, 'ENGINE', manages the engine maps. It operates together with 15), that manages the ICE modes. Among them are 'WU' (warm up), 'PSH' (pre start heating), 'PSHQ' (pre start heating qualifying), 'BOX INTERS/XW' manages some torque modes related to the use of inters and wet tyres.
16. Manages the strategies of the hybrid part of the PU.
17. Is a multifunctional rotary switch: eg. 'SPK' manages the spark plug ignition, 'TUR' (waste gate pressure) and preset recovery programs labelled A, B, etc.
18. Together with 'TRQ', manages the throttle response.
19. Manages the output of the energy storage.
20. 'SLO' is a button that activates the virtual safety car mode
21. 'SOC' manages the maximum level of charge desired or possible related to the specific conditions of the moment.
22. 'OK’ copies the information received by the pit.
23. Manages the differential slip at the corner entrance.
Do you know how many buttons Senna's steering wheel in the 80s had? None. Theres a reason why the 80s were the golden era of F1. It was actual racing.
I'm not on about removing battery power I'm on about the management of battery power, make it part of the ICE power not a switch to gain a boost, more like a hybrid.
But you are talking about KERS which was button triggered. Currently its indeed more like a hybrid.
There are 25 buttons on a F1 steering wheel, with sub menus within submenus. I think there a few hundred different combinations which is why drivers get confused during races when they have to troubleshoot.
Below isnt a mapping of the pic above but does explain some of the buttons. This is why alonso likened current F1 to being a aircraft pilot rather than a racing driver.
1. The button 'N' for Neutral.
2. ‘DRINK’ manages the drink bottle.
3. Radio.
4. Scroll down the dashboard.
5. Scroll up the dashboard.
6. ‘P’ is the pit limiter. When operated, it appears on the screen as ‘PIT LIMITER’ with the instant speed shown together.
7. ‘K2’ activates the DRS.
8. The rotary switch that manages the differential in the middle of the corner.
9. Manages engine braking.
10. 'OIL', activates an additional oil pump to increase lubrication.
11. The rotary 'TRQ' manages engine torque.
12. The clutch on the right side
14. Manages multiple functions, among them the ERS, REC (recovery), Mix (mixture fuel /air).
13. + 15. Number 13, 'ENGINE', manages the engine maps. It operates together with 15), that manages the ICE modes. Among them are 'WU' (warm up), 'PSH' (pre start heating), 'PSHQ' (pre start heating qualifying), 'BOX INTERS/XW' manages some torque modes related to the use of inters and wet tyres.
16. Manages the strategies of the hybrid part of the PU.
17. Is a multifunctional rotary switch: eg. 'SPK' manages the spark plug ignition, 'TUR' (waste gate pressure) and preset recovery programs labelled A, B, etc.
18. Together with 'TRQ', manages the throttle response.
19. Manages the output of the energy storage.
20. 'SLO' is a button that activates the virtual safety car mode
21. 'SOC' manages the maximum level of charge desired or possible related to the specific conditions of the moment.
22. 'OK’ copies the information received by the pit.
23. Manages the differential slip at the corner entrance.
Do you know how many buttons Senna's steering wheel in the 80s had? None. Theres a reason why the 80s were the golden era of F1. It was actual racing.
Dump half those buttons, realistically summer of the settings should be set before the race and let the drivers drive, oil to increase lubrication really, pit lane limiter
Has anyone been to, or know anyone who has been to, Suzuka to see the F1 race? Any thoughts on whether it’s worth it / good / bad / where one might wish to sit / too risky due to climate?
There are 25 buttons on a F1 steering wheel, with sub menus within submenus. I think there a few hundred different combinations which is why drivers get confused during races when they have to troubleshoot.
Below isnt a mapping of the pic above but does explain some of the buttons. This is why alonso likened current F1 to being a aircraft pilot rather than a racing driver.
1. The button 'N' for Neutral.
2. ‘DRINK’ manages the drink bottle.
3. Radio.
4. Scroll down the dashboard.
5. Scroll up the dashboard.
6. ‘P’ is the pit limiter. When operated, it appears on the screen as ‘PIT LIMITER’ with the instant speed shown together.
7. ‘K2’ activates the DRS.
8. The rotary switch that manages the differential in the middle of the corner.
9. Manages engine braking.
10. 'OIL', activates an additional oil pump to increase lubrication.
11. The rotary 'TRQ' manages engine torque.
12. The clutch on the right side
14. Manages multiple functions, among them the ERS, REC (recovery), Mix (mixture fuel /air).
13. + 15. Number 13, 'ENGINE', manages the engine maps. It operates together with 15), that manages the ICE modes. Among them are 'WU' (warm up), 'PSH' (pre start heating), 'PSHQ' (pre start heating qualifying), 'BOX INTERS/XW' manages some torque modes related to the use of inters and wet tyres.
16. Manages the strategies of the hybrid part of the PU.
17. Is a multifunctional rotary switch: eg. 'SPK' manages the spark plug ignition, 'TUR' (waste gate pressure) and preset recovery programs labelled A, B, etc.
18. Together with 'TRQ', manages the throttle response.
19. Manages the output of the energy storage.
20. 'SLO' is a button that activates the virtual safety car mode
21. 'SOC' manages the maximum level of charge desired or possible related to the specific conditions of the moment.
22. 'OK’ copies the information received by the pit.
23. Manages the differential slip at the corner entrance.
Do you know how many buttons Senna's steering wheel in the 80s had? None. Theres a reason why the 80s were the golden era of F1. It was actual racing.
The actual racing ceased the moment DRS arrived. The rest is fine but there should be no push to overtake button. That's the single biggest failure of F1 since its heyday. KERS was OK because everybody could use it but DRS is killing the sport.
The question is are the drivers all world class or are there better ones out there that are not the sons of rich fathers?
Albon had one or two good moves. Think Yuki had one on Albon, too. Great race by Yuki, actually. I like him as a driver, and obviously all the talk has been about Ricardo coming in, so it was nice to see Yuki just remind everyone that he's there too.
I thought the first half of the race was really good, actually.
Off Topic: 80s were the golden era of all eras.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/otmar-szafnauer-needed-time-leaving-alpine/
Sorry, but what the feck is that quote, and why he said that, so WEIRD
Haas to rebrand next season to Haas-Alfa Romeo
Where that leaves the current Alfa Romeo (to become Audi in 2026), hasnt been explained.
Alpha Tauri to rebrand to Hugo Boss or Orlen
Where that leaves the current Alfa Romeo (to become Audi in 2026), hasnt been explained.
Alpha Tauri to rebrand to Hugo Boss or Orlen
Vettel rumoured to return to Formula E
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing...o-return-to-motorsport-in-surprising-move-sj4
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing...o-return-to-motorsport-in-surprising-move-sj4
Plenty of commentary/ analysis suggesting that Max was forced to drive around 2 seconds a lap slower than he could in Spa.
It’s becoming clear (if it wasn’t already) that the tensions on the radio are more caused by the team sandbagging him for fear of repercussions, than tyre/ engine preservation.
It’s becoming clear (if it wasn’t already) that the tensions on the radio are more caused by the team sandbagging him for fear of repercussions, than tyre/ engine preservation.
That’s pretty shit if true, all F1 drivers want to go has fast as they can.
Let’s be honest it’s not Max’s fault that RB have built a car round him that is so much better than the rest.
OK Iam not a RB or Max fan, they have built a car that embarrasses the rest of the grid, it’s up to them to catch up, not for RB to slow down, makes a mockery of F1
Mercedes is still trying to get to the bottom of the bouncing issues it experienced at Spa last weekend, and it now believes that a set-up issue – not the car's upgrades – or the circuit itself caused the problem.
Both Lewis Hamilton and George Russell reported a return of porpoising on their car at the Belgian Grand Prix, a problem the team had largely mitigated with this year's ground-effect design.
After last Sunday's race, team boss Toto Wolff suspected that the upgrades implemented by Mercedes at Spa – a revised sidepod and small changes to the W14's floor – had caused the manifestation.
Both Lewis Hamilton and George Russell reported a return of porpoising on their car at the Belgian Grand Prix, a problem the team had largely mitigated with this year's ground-effect design.
After last Sunday's race, team boss Toto Wolff suspected that the upgrades implemented by Mercedes at Spa – a revised sidepod and small changes to the W14's floor – had caused the manifestation.
That would be unheard of in recent times. I find it bit hard to believe.
When you look at his lap times it doesn't seem that far fetched. It is very obvious Max is one of those drivers who can drive to a delta with scary precision. Last year's Mexico race was insane as proof thereof. However, I also think the team would rather minimize the number of pitstops and has him drive in tyre preservation mode and/or knows more about the deg he d otherwise put any of the parts of the car under if he would actually push. In fact, I feel like just about every team does that this season and as a result we re on track for one of the, if not the -lowest amounts of DNFs in a season.
I saw some analysis of the RB sandbagging. Apparently they were lifting heavily in Eau Rouge . The reason for this is that they might have set up the car for wet weather and were bottoming out heavily and the skid plate might have worn out more than what is legal. So to be on the safe side both drivers were asked to lift.
Perez was also lifting, both RBs were. Which is what Max was confirming on the radio. So yes, they were lifting and losing about 7 tenths down the straight to Hamilton.
Perez was also lifting, both RBs were. Which is what Max was confirming on the radio. So yes, they were lifting and losing about 7 tenths down the straight to Hamilton.
Ah yes good point I forgot about that. And sector times confirmed that RB were some of the slowest cars on the grid in sector 1. In fact - they only topped sector 3.
Everyone was saving some energy now and then, and Verstappen is 1-2 seconds a lap quicker than the rest, but there is no way he is quicker 3 seconds per lap than Perez, only kids would believe that.
Yeah, this is what it was. They wasn't sandbagging. If you listen to Perez after the race he makes comments that allude to this.
All of this conjecture has come because on lap 34 or something max did a 1:20:xx which was 2 seconds faster than he went during the rest of the race. Whats being forgotten was on new tyres with low fuel. There was some lifting on eau rouge but martin brundle explained that was done by max to get better drive on the long straight.
Is losing 7 tenths to hamilton correct? As both mercedes were litfing on the straights due to porposing.
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I thought it was more like 4 or 5 tenths from what I remember seeing but I'll stand to be corrected on that.
I might be mistaken. Here is the video.
The thumbnail and title are a bit sensational. But it is a fairly reasonable and well researched video.
Good video. Max was lifting enough that if he didnt lift he would have been 50 seconds ahead if leclerc. Fecking hell.
Haven't watched the video but is this about RB lifting through Eau Rouge because they were afraid their car was setup too low so the plank would degrade too much if they didn't?
Red Bull have been sandbagging all season, I don't know why Belgium has suddenly become this revelation.
It happens Mercedes admitting to sandbagging (well turning the engine down for the entire of the 2014 season when hybrid engines were introduced).
Isnt that twitters most deranged hamilbot