F1 2023 Season

The feck happened to Mercedes

They seem to be having a real struggle lately
 
Nice to see Gunther come across as the feckwit he is. Cannot fathom how he is still a team principal other than to lick Gene Haas’ arsehole.

Mick was gone after Monaco and the way he carried on was a joke for trying to develop a young driver.
 
Let’s change the rules to make things more competitive and all that’s happened is one of the two front runners has just swapped with the other and are even further ahead.
 
SilentWitness said:
Let’s change the rules to make things more competitive and all that’s happened is one of the two front runners has just swapped with the other and are even further ahead.
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Unfortunately this happens with every rule change. Takes them a while to catch up.

Let's not forget the last rule change Mercedes won 6 in a row.

It's kind of frustrating that the season before the rules changed, we probably had the best season in modern history for that reason.
 
SilentWitness said:
Let’s change the rules to make things more competitive and all that’s happened is one of the two front runners has just swapped with the other and are even further ahead.
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I would say the rules are quite decent in last two years, except the Red Bull costs thing last year.

It's not FIA's fault Mercedes (by the looks of it) managed to make even worse car than most average teams this year, and Ferrari still spend their tires more than any other car on the grid and they can't understand why.
 
#AMuS reports that apparently the ground clearance of the RB19 is at least 10 millimetres below everyone else [based on what Mercedes observed]. And despite that, still no bouncing issues.


Toto says their floor would break if they would do the same.

#AMuS Another car with similar characteristics as the RB19 is the AMR23. Mercedes engineers claim to have noticed that the AMR23 drives at a lower ride height too, and despite that, gets over the bumps well. It is also strong on corner exit.

#AMuS The comparison with Aston Martin is interesting for Mercedes because they supply Aston Martin with the engine, gearbox and rear suspension.

Aston Martin only makes the front axle, which could indicate that this is where both the secret of Red Bull and Aston Martin lie.
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Really hope that the season won't be another RB procession, but it really isn't sounding positive. The sport really needs at least two teams capable of winning races. Would love to see Aston manage to jump the pack and challenge at the front for a change.
 
hobbers said:
Not buying this typical Merc doom and gloom. Wouldn’t surprise if they’re beating Ferrari in the races from the get go. Pick up where they left off.

Much better position compared to the shitbox they were driving in the first half a dozen races last season, where even reaching Q3 was an achievement.
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Yeah Mercedes were clearly sandbagging through testing, atleast wrt straightline speed. They may not be RedBull fast but will easily be up there with Ferrari
 
Don't believe that Mercedes were sand bagging personally.

Also not looking forward to a dominant season by red bull. Hate when any team dominates, with reliability being so good it's so much worse than it used to be when cars would blow up all the time.
 
This season will be a shit show RB will absolutely dominate from the go. How many races can Verstappen win?
 
Amar__ said:
I would say the rules are quite decent in last two years, except the Red Bull costs thing last year.

It's not FIA's fault Mercedes (by the looks of it) managed to make even worse car than most average teams this year, and Ferrari still spend their tires more than any other car on the grid and they can't understand why.
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Dunno. The top 3 are still the top 3, just a different order.
 
pacifictheme said:
Don't believe that Mercedes were sand bagging personally.

Also not looking forward to a dominant season by red bull. Hate when any team dominates, with reliability being so good it's so much worse than it used to be when cars would blow up all the time.
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Agree with you on this.
I was really looking forward to this season with a number of teams challenging RB, although I didn't quite expect Aston Martin to be one of those yet.
RB were always going to be the team to beat because of their dominance last year. I did however expect Mercedes to be closer. But I am still confident that they will get there.
And I do agree with you about the engine reliability. It used to be great to see a car going flat out followed by a comprehensive engine failure.
 
Can't we wait a few races before we're crowning RB as champions? Or at least until 5min into Q3 on Sunday.. A week before is way too negative, even for the F1 thread on the caf.
 
SilentWitness said:
Dunno. The top 3 are still the top 3, just a different order.
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I don't know, Mercs seem pretty incapable of making anywhere near the best car now when they can't spend more than others, by the looks of it.
 
I hope the hype around Aston Martin is justified.
After nearly a decade of awful machinery and poor reliability nobody deserves a good car more than Alonso.
 
Canagel said:
I hope the hype around Aston Martin is justified.
After nearly a decade of awful machinery and poor reliability nobody deserves a good car more than Alonso.
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Wish it was another team not one where there is a know-it-all annoying billionaire in charge.
 
I cant make out Mercedes, some of what I saw was very good, some was back to last season.
I also read they have a plan B to change the body work if plan A does not work ! when do they decide plan A is not working, 1 race 2-5 ? and what about the budget , building 2 body designs , if that what they have done, cant be cheap.
I think @Amar__ has nailed it, now the budgets are a level playing field , they are struggling and with basic design.
Now they could be sandbagging and not really showing any true pace and if they are, they are, personally what a car can do should not be seen before the last bit of Q3 in the first race.
Clearly the 2 in front are Red Bull and Ferrari and maybe just maybe Aston Martin, they look like they have built a very good car, hopefully other teams can but up there also.
Mercedes being 3 maybe even 4 fastest on the grid, could mean the lose out on Q3 a few times they wont llke it.
I know we say it every season, but this one could be a decent one.
 
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I'd like to see more behind the scenes, I've only watched 2 episodes of this series so far, but the meeting with all the team principles with Toto moaning about the porpoising for example was really interesting

I'd also find it really interesting following a driver on the morning of a race e.g. when they eat, how they prepare, what they do while they wait for the race etc. However doubt any of them would allow it?

This book looks like it could be interesting

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Surviving-...2989B979E8EC91_afap_abs&ref_=aa_maas&tag=maas
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I cant make out Mercedes, some of what I saw was very good, some was back to last season.
I also read they have a plan B to change the body work if plan A does not work ! when do they decide plan A is not working, 1 race 2-5 ? and what about the budget , building 2 body designs , if that what they have done, cant be cheap.
I think @Amar__ has nailed it, now the budgets are a level playing field , they are struggling and with basic design.
Now they could be sandbagging and not really showing any true pace and if they are, they are, personally what a car can do should not be seen before the last bit of Q3 in the first race.
Clearly the 2 in front are Red Bull and Ferrari and maybe just maybe Aston Martin, they look like they have built a very good car, hopefully other teams can but up there also.
Mercedes being 3 maybe even 4 fastest on the grid, could mean the lose out on Q3 a few times they wont llke it.
I know we say it every season, but this one could be a decent one.
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Its really hard to tell, the reports are all over the place. Some outlets say that Mercedes were running extra ballast and that the front wing used in testing isnt the front wing that will be used this weekend.

As you said about the plan B reports. The flipside of that is that Mercedes partway through the design of the W14 came up with something, but it will take until race 6, for that new bodywork to appear. Which reporting is correct? Who knows?

Take ferrari, reports say its super quick but has high deg. Todays reports from italy say that the high deg was because they were testing with full race distance fuel loads in the cars.

Guess we'll find out this weekend.
 
Obviously Red Bull look strong & I wouldn’t be surprised with a fairly convincing 1-2 this weekend (and maybe the next few too) but I wouldn’t rule out Ferrari or Mercedes yet.

It’s the longest season ever & RB do have the slight handicap of less wind tunnel time than their rivals.

I think Merc are still on catch up mode with their car philosophy. They’ve sunk so much r&d time into figuring out what the hell was going on last season & then managed to bring updates to fix most of them in the 2nd half of last year & over the break that they’re really only starting to get the the actual tuning of the car now, working out its ideal operating window & how to best set it up.

Coupled with the fact the say they’ve got a big upgrade planned for Baku or wherever, I think we could see a much tighter fight from round 6. I’m reading between the lines & this that this update is actually the car they aimed to start the season with but all their timelines have slipped a few months due to the efforts resolving that trolly of a car last year.

Ferrari seemed pretty bullish about their engine improvements at their launch and I’m hoping they’ve sorted their race pace/tyre deg out. Also, their strategy can’t be as hilariously bad as last year.They’ll hopefully be close enough to Red Bull to at least cause Checo issues.

As a McLaren fan I’m pretty worried by their pre-season. They could be back where they started last year & have probably slipped pretty far behind Alpine & Aston now. Still think they’ll out-develop the other midfield lot over the course of the season & Lando will get the maximum out of the package, but it’ll be a fight just to finish 6th this year imo.
 
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Zlaatan said:
Can't we wait a few races before we're crowning RB as champions? Or at least until 5min into Q3 on Sunday.. A week before is way too negative, even for the F1 thread on the caf.
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I remember 2004 when Ferrari rolled out for p3 at Aus having done about 12 laps total for p1 and 2. Was pretty much “better luck next year” to everybody else.
 
pacifictheme said:
Don't believe that Mercedes were sand bagging personally.

Also not looking forward to a dominant season by red bull. Hate when any team dominates, with reliability being so good it's so much worse than it used to be when cars would blow up all the time.
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Me neither, you can't really sandbag anymore and plus everyone said this last season and turned out Merc was actually slower.
 



Aston Martin being mentioned with top 3 makes you wonder that the hype is real.
 
Wicked_Badger said:
Obviously Red Bull look strong & I wouldn’t be surprised with a fairly convincing 1-2 this weekend (and maybe the next few too) but I wouldn’t rule out Ferrari or Mercedes yet.

It’s the longest season ever & RB do have the slight handicap of less wind tunnel time than their rivals.

I think Merc are still on catch up mode with their car philosophy. They’ve sunk so much r&d time into figuring out what the hell was going on last season & then managed to bring updates to fix most of them in the 2nd half of last year & over the break that they’re really only starting to get the the actual tuning of the car now, working out its ideal operating window & how to best set it up.

Coupled with the fact the say they’ve got a big upgrade planned for Baku or wherever, I think we could see a much tighter fight from round 6. I’m reading between the lines & this that this update is actually the car they aimed to start the season with but all their timelines have slipped a few months due to the efforts resolving that trolly of a car last year.

Ferrari seemed pretty bullish about their engine improvements at their launch and I’m hoping they’ve sorted their race pace/tyre deg out. Also, their strategy can’t be as hilariously bad as last year.They’ll hopefully be close enough to Red Bull to at least cause Checo issues.

As a McLaren fan I’m pretty worried by their pre-season. They could be back where they started last year & have probably slipped pretty far behind Alpine & Aston now. Still think they’ll out-develop the other midfield lot over the course of the season & Lando will get the maximum out of the package, but it’ll be a fight just to finish 6th this year imo.
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I agree, race 6 onwards is when we will see rhe actual mercedes for this season.
 
Ahmer Baig said:



Aston Martin being mentioned with top 3 makes you wonder that the hype is real.
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They have recruited heavily from RedBull, Ferrari and Mercedes. Stroll snr wanted to get the AstonMartin F1 operations personnel numbers upto those of the big three i.e. 700 people (trackside and factory combined). Thats the ideal number to operate at the top end apparently.

To give a sense of scale, Alpha Tauri at their factory in italy employ 50 people, granted they get alot of parts off RedBull so dont need to do same level of R&D. But the scales between the top teams and bottom, off the grid is huge.

They (AM) have a state of the art campus being built, so Stoll Snr means business. If they continue on current tragectory then they culd eventually produce a championship winning car.
 
Ahmer Baig said:



Aston Martin being mentioned with top 3 makes you wonder that the hype is real.
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All depends on the question. If they were asked about them because there is hype they may just be responding, and they could mean Aston are absolutely nowhere.

Anyway I have them and alonso in my fantasy team. Do we have a league on Redcafe?
 
It will be really interesting, and make it more exciting, to add AM to the mix of challenging for podiums, maybe even wins. I want as many teams as possible challenging and for it to be exciting

Daddy Stroll could well have a big decision to make if they end up in the mix for wins maybe eventually the title as will his son end up hindering them as I don't think he's championship winning ability
 
United Hobbit said:
It will be really interesting, and make it more exciting, to add AM to the mix of challenging for podiums, maybe even wins. I want as many teams as possible challenging and for it to be exciting

Daddy Stroll could well have a big decision to make if they end up in the mix for wins maybe eventually the title as will his son end up hindering them as I don't think he's championship winning ability
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I do as well, as long as its not red bull (max) driving into the distance and everyone else fighting for scraps.

Ideally red bull and Mercedes would fall away and we would get an AM, ferrari,mclaren 3 way fight for the title. Bored of both of them now.
 
pacifictheme said:
Don't believe that Mercedes were sand bagging personally.

Also not looking forward to a dominant season by red bull. Hate when any team dominates, with reliability being so good it's so much worse than it used to be when cars would blow up all the time.
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From what I can tell re: sandbagging:

Pros:
They apparently had a larger rear wing than everyone else during testing, making them the slowest car down the straights. They'll go for a medium sized wing in qualifying/ race conditions and should easily go faster
They have a history of sandbagging

Cons:

Their balance is clearly an issue, with significant understeer. Sometimes balance is easily fixed, rather than being systemic, but given data is so important with the new restrictions, I doubt they'd want to lose so much data through the corners, unless they were very confident all of their issues last season were down the straights.
The limit on parts etc. makes sandbagging more difficult to do and easier to spot.

My complete guess is that they'll be faster than we're assuming, and maybe one of them will pip Saintz or Perez.
 
goalscholes said:
From what I can tell re: sandbagging:

Pros:
They apparently had a larger rear wing than everyone else during testing, making them the slowest car down the straights. They'll go for a medium sized wing in qualifying/ race conditions and should easily go faster
They have a history of sandbagging

Cons:

Their balance is clearly an issue, with significant understeer. Sometimes balance is easily fixed, rather than being systemic, but given data is so important with the new restrictions, I doubt they'd want to lose so much data through the corners, unless they were very confident all of their issues last season were down the straights.
The limit on parts etc. makes sandbagging more difficult to do and easier to spot.

My complete guess is that they'll be faster than we're assuming, and maybe one of them will pip Saintz or Perez.
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Thank sounds interesting and I too believe that mercedes will get there. Although probably not this weekend.
 
dinostar77 said:
They have recruited heavily from RedBull, Ferrari and Mercedes. Stroll snr wanted to get the AstonMartin F1 operations personnel numbers upto those of the big three i.e. 700 people (trackside and factory combined). Thats the ideal number to operate at the top end apparently.

To give a sense of scale, Alpha Tauri at their factory in italy employ 50 people, granted they get alot of parts off RedBull so dont need to do same level of R&D. But the scales between the top teams and bottom, off the grid is huge.

They (AM) have a state of the art campus being built, so Stoll Snr means business. If they continue on current tragectory then they culd eventually produce a championship winning car.
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Indeed. Must be a significant financial investment to employ up to 700 highly skilled people. Let alone the state of the art campus.
 
pacifictheme said:
All depends on the question. If they were asked about them because there is hype they may just be responding, and they could mean Aston are absolutely nowhere.

Anyway I have them and alonso in my fantasy team. Do we have a league on Redcafe?
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Check the quoted post below:

pauldyson1uk said:
Thinking about it you may need an invite to the Superbru one @altodevil ?
There is also another one set up and has been for a few years now, a few used it last season, but I have to admit Superbru is a better one.
But if you want to join here it is.
http://www.fantasy-f1-league.com/

League name is RedCafe Fantasy F1 League
Password is redcafe
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