Not a safety car finish. And he got half points in a race he probably would've won from pole.
Or do you think F1 orchestrated these conditions so Max didn't have to race that day?!
F1 2022 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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Not a safety car finish. And he got half points in a race he probably would've won from pole.
Or do you think F1 orchestrated these conditions so Max didn't have to race that day?!
He got half points for a race that should have been cancelled.Not a safety car finish. And he got half points in a race he probably would've won from pole.
Or do you think F1 orchestrated these conditions so Max didn't have to race that day?!
It was a farce behind the safety car.
I'm quite sure that the red car we can see in that picture is a safety car.Not a safety car finish. And he got half points in a race he probably would've won from pole.
Or do you think F1 orchestrated these conditions so Max didn't have to race that day?!
Either way the race should never have taken place and The last race as per the rules should have finished under a safety car. Either one of those things happening and he wouldn't have won the title.
I was also sure that after what happened to Jules Bianchi if a crane needed to be brought onto the track the race was supposed to be red flagged.
That is a really good point.
absolutely this, man took one for the team
Yes they did the minimum distance they had to do not to give refunds to the crowd ... It should never have started
As for max a great drive today ... And he will win his first non human error world championship with ease
Hard to imagine that red bull and max not being right at the front again next year ... Who knows hopefully Ferrari cut the mistakes and merc make a car they can understand and we get a more competitive season next year
Its his first proper WDC that isnt tantied and is fully deserved. Its a huge shame we didnt get to see the psychological effects of a drawn out wdc race between max and leclerc. The pair of them underb extreme pressure would have been a interesting watch.
Lets hope mercedea can give lewis a title challeging car next year. There isnt anyone else other than lewis who can go toe to toe with max and slug it out.
In hindsight I wish Ferrari had gone for soft tyres in leclerc first pit. Would have been interesting at least. Though I still think max would have won. The guy is unstoppable and demoralising.
I feel for Sainz the most. I think he would have caught Russell.
Of course, the key problem last year was that the rules weren't followed with regards to letting lapped cars either all stay in place or let them all come through - which is clear inconsistency and was very hard to justify. (Except with the get-out clause 'the race director can ultimately do whatever they want'.) It's not about the use of the SC or a red flag.
Just watched the replay on C4.
Yet again, the race director ruins a race. FFS!
Yet again, the race director ruins a race. FFS!
Caught the highlights as I was out, Verstappen in Red Bull in a league of their own yet again. The title in Japan looks on the cards here.
The rules on safety car were applied correct here, but you could argue the communication to the lapped runners could have been better to have speeded up the process. Even the Marshall element took time but understandable given the gaps across a race like Monza. The FIA need to look at this to see how they can improve the speed of the decision making. Even with a final lap restart it wouldn't have made any difference as the performance of that Red Bull car was ridiculous in a straight line with increased levels of downforce.
Mega drive from De Vries though, they'd be foolish to not put him instead of Latifi in that car next year.
The rules on safety car were applied correct here, but you could argue the communication to the lapped runners could have been better to have speeded up the process. Even the Marshall element took time but understandable given the gaps across a race like Monza. The FIA need to look at this to see how they can improve the speed of the decision making. Even with a final lap restart it wouldn't have made any difference as the performance of that Red Bull car was ridiculous in a straight line with increased levels of downforce.
Mega drive from De Vries though, they'd be foolish to not put him instead of Latifi in that car next year.
Updated on KMAG v Mick - not that anybody asks but anyway
Currently in races against each other Mick overall has beaten KMAG 11 out of 15 times.
When both drivers are classified finishers, its 8-4 to baby Schumacher.
Disappointing that Mick's pace has come after HAAS has turned to shit, but he's now comprehensively beating KMAG...
I'd say he belongs in f1...
Currently in races against each other Mick overall has beaten KMAG 11 out of 15 times.
When both drivers are classified finishers, its 8-4 to baby Schumacher.
Disappointing that Mick's pace has come after HAAS has turned to shit, but he's now comprehensively beating KMAG...
I'd say he belongs in f1...
Good stats, without paying much attention I'd assumed it would have been more even or even KMag ahead. I hope Schumacher gets a seat, seems a good lad.
Would've liked to see have seen Leclerc stick to plan A so they could've faced each other earlier on even if Max was likely to overtake. Doing more pit stops was very much slower and just conceded position without a fight. They're about 16-17 seconds behind near the end. A safety brings them together but Max can get a set on too.
The safety cars rules were applied correctly today, they weren't in Abu Dhabi. It's funny as understandably Leclerc came in with Max for new tyres but had he stayed out he would've took the lead and ended the winner under the SC but of course they expected the car to be cleared. Lewis stays out as it should've ended under the safety car, it was the correct call as there was no time to get all the cars in order unless something underhand happens. Max was miles behind the whole race, Lewis drove super last race and left them all in his wake and Masi starts fast tracking Max through the grid against the rules and starts the race only once Max is there on fresh tyres, other drivers miss out behind. Utterly ridiculous and flouting of the rules just to set up a completely unfair showdown for a 100% certain outcome.
Also I'd have to check but I recall Sainz was unlucky in Abu Dhabi as Masi's fast tracking car(s) through stopped short with him, it was only about getting Max up the order, feck the rest. Today Sainz was ready to pounce on Russell but quite rightly ended according to the rules.
The safety cars rules were applied correctly today, they weren't in Abu Dhabi. It's funny as understandably Leclerc came in with Max for new tyres but had he stayed out he would've took the lead and ended the winner under the SC but of course they expected the car to be cleared. Lewis stays out as it should've ended under the safety car, it was the correct call as there was no time to get all the cars in order unless something underhand happens. Max was miles behind the whole race, Lewis drove super last race and left them all in his wake and Masi starts fast tracking Max through the grid against the rules and starts the race only once Max is there on fresh tyres, other drivers miss out behind. Utterly ridiculous and flouting of the rules just to set up a completely unfair showdown for a 100% certain outcome.
Also I'd have to check but I recall Sainz was unlucky in Abu Dhabi as Masi's fast tracking car(s) through stopped short with him, it was only about getting Max up the order, feck the rest. Today Sainz was ready to pounce on Russell but quite rightly ended according to the rules.
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Ferrari pitted LeClerc too early. Just because there is a VSC/SC doesn't mean you should always pit. There was life in that soft yet.
My wife & I call him Robot George. Harsh but we’ve got the exact same opinion of him as you
Yes I think so too. Seems like with all the mishaps they thought lets capitalize on the VSC, that's the smart move like Red Bull do, I couldn't believe what they were doing at the time. Red Bull have exploited the VSC very well in the past but ignored it today, it's too early and the best strategy for a front running car such as Max or Leclerc was a one stop midway or a VSC within a closer window. Ferrari had to move to plan C which was coming in for second set and resulting them 16-17 seconds behind. Two stop or 1 stop with very long second stint was silly for a Leclerc/Max at the front. Short gain and really helps you coming from the back like wanting clear air or gamble on being drawn closer with a safety car.
Red Bull would've been laughing at the pole and lead car coming in that early and conceding the lead without a fight. While Red Bull were faster, Leclerc had enough to at least hold him off for a while. You never know in racing what can happen, Max could've went wide, hit a curb, flat spotted his tyres. At least put yourself in contention to race but Ferrari removed themselves to no benefit and selected a longer strategy. You see Perez or Danny Ric doing those types of calls. I think Leclerc in hindsight understands as Martin Brundle did question him in a pretty blunt way.
I am pretty sure Max was told to do the opposite of LeClerc. Isn’t that what Karun came on and said? I’ve been critical of Ferrari a lot. But today it wasn’t down to strategy. Max + RB were just faster. Didn’t matter what they did, they would’ve lost.
Also even if Charles didn’t come in for fresh tires under SC max would’ve come out ahead of him. RB even has this discussion on radio before he pitted. He was 17 seconds ahead with cars driving at reduced speeds.
Also even if Charles didn’t come in for fresh tires under SC max would’ve come out ahead of him. RB even has this discussion on radio before he pitted. He was 17 seconds ahead with cars driving at reduced speeds.
Wouldn’t surprise if he’s signing on with alpine with suggestions that his agreement with Ferrari won’t be renewed. Ferrari won’t sponsor a driver not in one of their cars. HAAS are going nowhere fast and I think Mick wants out to further his career.
it’s concerning how far HAAS have dropped off given how much they invested in this years car.
I don’t think Guntensteiner (sp?) makes a very good team principle. HAAS actually seem the worst run team to me. Williams though always languishing in the back seemed to only be constrained by finances. Yes, even HAAS has financial issues. But from the outside it always seem like they aren’t a very well run unit with whatever budget they have.
Was at the race. Great atmosphere and a well deserved win by Max.
Him and Red Bull in a class of their own now.
Ferrari and Leclerc wasted the start of season when they where faster.
Tifosi where brilliant bar one or two fans throwing objects at Max's car at the end.
Otherwise the booing was really in good fun and afterwards they got on Great with the Dutch etc.
Organisationally though Monza was a bit shit in comparison to other GPs. Accessing my grandstand was a joke as eveytime you did it required a bag and ticket check which caused stupid queues. At Barcelona once within the event you never got searched again.
Also the token system they use to pay for food drinks etc should not be legal. It's just a way of scamming people and making more queues. Though I did know it would be the case because of IMOLA
Him and Red Bull in a class of their own now.
Ferrari and Leclerc wasted the start of season when they where faster.
Tifosi where brilliant bar one or two fans throwing objects at Max's car at the end.
Otherwise the booing was really in good fun and afterwards they got on Great with the Dutch etc.
Organisationally though Monza was a bit shit in comparison to other GPs. Accessing my grandstand was a joke as eveytime you did it required a bag and ticket check which caused stupid queues. At Barcelona once within the event you never got searched again.
Also the token system they use to pay for food drinks etc should not be legal. It's just a way of scamming people and making more queues. Though I did know it would be the case because of IMOLA
Not mathematically because from everything he implies he will retire early.
But like how Senna is in the conversation despite less titles Max will be too
Obviously titles are important for GOAT status but at end of the day if you hang it up early it doesn't really take away from it.
Max has only been on pole once in this five race win streak. Pretty impressive.
Yep, that pretty much lost him the race.
The tyres just didn't wear out quickly, so the benefit of fresh tyres especially on a track that is 80% flat out is very little.
The extra time needed for a pit stop at Monza just wasn't worth it.
I'm not even sure he go the full benefit of the VSC either, as soon as he came into the pitlane the circuit was green again.
It would have been interesting if they didn't put and kept it the same, as both seemed pretty similar on pace.
That's just how the season has folded out though really, Red bull have won this off the track just as much as on it.
Yeah he has one 5 in a row starting from:
P1
P2
P7
P10
P14
Regardless of the car he drives that is mad impressive because anything can happen starting so low down so many times. You have to drive impeccably well at the start to avoid carnage and to pick your moments etc
I wonder has anyone won from so many different starting positions in a single season before?
Max would also have from P4 for Saudi and P3 for Miami and maybe a few others I can't remember.
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Think all will depend on if / when the other teams can catch up in terms of the car. If the gap stays this big then he probably will. Although he says he will retire early.
A decade ago we would have been saying the same about Seb right now. I think the discussion can only really start when he hits 5 titles.
Max has clearly taken his driving onto another level this year though. He’s got rid of the rush of blood overtaking as well which makes him so much more consistent. Will be interesting to see if that remains the case should another team manage to actually challenge him.
He won't need 5 titles to be in the conversation if he retires early as he says.
Like take a few anyways from Hamilton if he retired sooner he'd still be in the conversation.
Truth is there can't ever really be a Goat as cars are so influential and all the drivers have such different situations. People will have their opinions none are really wrong.
Only thing we can have is a most successful driver as that is a statement based on stats.
Greatest is just a matter of opinion
It's not one name
Günther SteinerIt's not one name
whoops.
He has one World Championship. Literally anything could happen.
As a bare minimum he needs to win with another team or a new set of rules. He won't be in the conversation as long as he wins in a single dominant car, even if he wins 8 titles in it. The Sennas/Clarks/Schumachers were renowned for their ability to get performance from anything and help make their cars are great as they were.
It would be nice too if the FIA could let him win a race (or even start one) without a safety car or penalty turning the race upside down.
Nobody with half a brain considers even talking about Max as a goat contender
He needs a minimum of 4/5 titles before even reaching the bottom of the list.
one questionable championship
though for sure hes going to win this years by a long way
GOAT debates will always be difficult like vettel said as drivers from another era might not necessarly translate to being the best driver in a different era
The linieage of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel? seems likley though as best of their time (prost and alonso being very close to that group IMO)
If max can dominate the last few years of this itteration of cars and then be dominat in the next that will go a long way to get him in the senna schumacher hamilton group
i do think Red Bull might struggle in 2026 though if they dont find an engine partner soon and they have to build their own engine and energy recovery system
One highly questionable WC as we saw yesterday what the outcome of the last race in 2021 should have been.
But let's wait and see how things pan out for him and RB in the years to come.
Both are extremely strong at the moment.
But sport isn't linear.
I do find it absolutely bizarre that there are people suggesting it would be better for the sport to have had a one lap shootout yesterday, rather than the deserved winner getting the victory under the safety car.
Is F1 now seen as such a poor product that the hour and a half of fair racing isn’t seen as sufficient entertainment? Finishing under the SC was no more boring than watching Max cross the line 20 seconds clear and was the correct outcome. If we move to a situation where we have to have manufactured short-term excitement, even if the deserved winner loses as a result, that isn’t a sport I want to follow.
Is F1 now seen as such a poor product that the hour and a half of fair racing isn’t seen as sufficient entertainment? Finishing under the SC was no more boring than watching Max cross the line 20 seconds clear and was the correct outcome. If we move to a situation where we have to have manufactured short-term excitement, even if the deserved winner loses as a result, that isn’t a sport I want to follow.
Lots of people are, though. Matter of time brother. Be glad you're watching history in the makingNobody with half a brain considers even talking about Max as a goat contender
He needs a minimum of 4/5 titles before even reaching the bottom of the list.
This is already a new set of rules so....
That's that one complete.
Also the rest of your comment is absolute nonsense.