F1 2022 Season

Fluctuation0161 said:
Seems a strange point to make when you consider Horner has many more examples of being a prick. But meh.
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Toto said Max deserved to be crashed out at Silverstone to learn a lesson which is about the worst thing any of them have ever said.

It was a horrible crash caused by his driver and he said the other guy deserved it. Make it make sense.

Was the start of all the vitriol too from both teams.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Albon will have a Williams seat next year. I think Mick will stay with Haas. Tsunoda is definitely in trouble at Alpha Tauri, he has not impressed lately and there's still question marks over his maturity. Zhou will get another year at Alfa Romeo and I'm not sure on Ricciardo, it seems McLaren want him to stay on another year and Ricciardo has said he's committed but a lot can change from now until the end of the season.
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Make no mistake, if Ricciardo didn't have another year on his contract he'd be out this summer. Apart from 1 win at Monza he's been tragically bad.

Unless they pay him off then I can't see him going anywhere. Meanwhile, Mclaren are recruiting and testing some of the best Indycar talent in Palou, O'Ward and Herta to see if they can make the step up.

I suspect 1 of those will replace Ricciardo at the right moment.
 
slyadams said:
That's not why I called you out at all, and you know it. You said:

This was, and still is, a petulant position to take: "I'm right and if you disagree you're wrong". Its also almost certainly untrue because I disagree almost universally with the statement "they're both as bad as each other". Its a cop out people use all the time, very commonly with politicians and countries. Its almost never the case two things just happen to be perfectly equal.

I stand by my position Horner is a more odious character and as many in this thread have shown this isn't a unique opinion.
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Fair enough; you're right that my post was irritating and condescending - apologies for that.
 
Oh Shame, dissappointing to see Alonso has moved to that wretched team. Alpine were on the rise, it'd be another year fighting at the back end of the midfield I presume for AM.

I guess Sargeant should get that Williams seat now with Piastri staying at Alpine
 
sun_tzu said:
He's outperforming Alonso this season and bagged a win last season - the 3 year deal seems pretty decent considering hes only 25
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I wouldn't say he's outperforming Alonso this season. Alonso would be ahead in the standings if not for bad reliability and bad team calls by Alpine. Ocon for me is very much a mid level driver and has also shown to be a bad teammate to others. That's why I personally don't rate him that much but as you said, he's 25, so hopefully he improves.
 
Will this move make Alonso the first person to have driven a car with the PU from all four current suppliers (With Redbull still really just being a Honda)
 
avgp_1 said:
Oh Shame, dissappointing to see Alonso has moved to that wretched team. Alpine were on the rise, it'd be another year fighting at the back end of the midfield I presume for AM.

I guess Sargeant should get that Williams seat now with Piastri staying at Alpine
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No team in F1 are currently spending as much as AM on growing their operations. They have a purpose built wind tunnel on the way, on their purpose built from ground up new headquarters which should be finished next year. Not since ron dennis at mclaren in 04 has anyone built custom f1 specific headquarters from the ground up. Make no mistake, they arent ready right now, and it maybe after Alonso's multi year deal ends, but AM will be up there eventually.
 
Ahmer Baig said:
Will this move make Alonso the first person to have driven a car with the PU from all four current suppliers (With Redbull still really just being a Honda)
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already is, he drove mclaren mercedes back in the day.

He's done Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda, Renault now.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Make no mistake, if Ricciardo didn't have another year on his contract he'd be out this summer. Apart from 1 win at Monza he's been tragically bad.

Unless they pay him off then I can't see him going anywhere. Meanwhile, Mclaren are recruiting and testing some of the best Indycar talent in Palou, O'Ward and Herta to see if they can make the step up.

I suspect 1 of those will replace Ricciardo at the right moment.
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If McLaren really think Ricciardo is doing that bad of a job, which I believe he is, then they'll pull the plug and pay what they have to. A team aspiring to fight for 4th, or higher, cannot have a driver doing so badly, its fighting with one hand behind your back.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Toto said Max deserved to be crashed out at Silverstone to learn a lesson which is about the worst thing any of them have ever said.

It was a horrible crash caused by his driver and he said the other guy deserved it. Make it make sense.

Was the start of all the vitriol too from both teams.
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A more full quote is below. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It was a 60/40 racing incident where the stewards found Lewis to be slightly more at fault. Max drives too aggressive when fighting for position and Lewis had backed out every other time until Silverstone.


“There wasn’t a lot of feeling of remorse on our side,” Express reports him as having said in Sky Sports F1’s 2021 documentary ‘Duel’.
“Lewis has given up corners much more often before where he shouldn’t have.

“If you’re sitting in the hospital shaken by a big impact, you’re not going to understand that the other team is cheering for their driver.

“But it was his home race, a massive swing to our advantage in terms of points, and we knew that Max was okay.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-max-verstappen-british-gp-crash/
 
Ahmer Baig said:
Will this move make Alonso the first person to have driven a car with the PU from all four current suppliers (With Redbull still really just being a Honda)
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He also had an "asiatec" engine - a rebranded Peugot in his debut season at Minadri as well I think

Though the majority of his career has been with a renault engine I think

He also has driven a merc powered car before his move to Aston in 2007 when he was with mclaren who were merc powered at the time
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
A more full quote is below. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It was a 60/40 racing incident where the stewards found Lewis to be slightly more at fault. Max drives too aggressive when fighting for position and Lewis had backed out every other time until Silverstone.


“There wasn’t a lot of feeling of remorse on our side,” Express reports him as having said in Sky Sports F1’s 2021 documentary ‘Duel’.
“Lewis has given up corners much more often before where he shouldn’t have.

“If you’re sitting in the hospital shaken by a big impact, you’re not going to understand that the other team is cheering for their driver.

“But it was his home race, a massive swing to our advantage in terms of points, and we knew that Max was okay.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-max-verstappen-british-gp-crash/
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It was not 60 40 at all but ok. Hell just look at how properly Lewis took the corner this year to see the difference in why it happened.

Silverstone didn't require Lewis to back out at all. It just required him to take the corner well, which he didn't. And truthfully that's ok as shit happens but them pretending it wasn't Lewis fault and Max deserved it was the ridiculous thing.

Toto's DTS comments where way worse as well.
 
laughtersassassin said:
It was not 60 40 at all but ok. Hell just look at how properly Lewis took the corner this year to see the difference in why it happened.

Silverstone didn't require Lewis to back out at all. It just required him to take the corner well, which he didn't. And truthfully that's ok as shit happens but them pretending it wasn't Lewis fault and Max deserved it was the ridiculous thing.

Toto's DTS comments where way worse as well.
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I’m not really sure what point you’re making. A bizarre incident to bring up if trying to show how Toto is worse than Horner, when Horner basically said Hamilton did it on purpose and Max could have died. He said some other stuff too. All to smear Hamilton as an incompetent reckless driver when we all know that just isn’t true. The crash occurred simply because Lewis didn’t make the apex. Yes other drivers would have given Hamilton more room than Max (and so the debate really wasn’t around whether Max takes blame but about whether Max should be thinking about the bigger picture - a worthy debate because I don’t think the Max of this year would pinch Hamilton as tightly this year knowing that the only driver who will lose out if things go wrong in that situation is the guy on the outside) but was still Hamilton’s fault ultimately. But to say it was on purpose was all a bit off really.

I don’t really care who is or isn’t considered worse, but you really do struggle to look at all things related to RB objectively, and it’s a consistent theme in all of your posts.
 
rpitroda said:
I’m not really sure what point you’re making. A bizarre incident to bring up if trying to show how Toto is worse than Horner, when Horner basically said Hamilton did it on purpose and Max could have died. He said some other stuff too. All to smear Hamilton as an incompetent reckless driver when we all know that just isn’t true. The crash occurred simply because Lewis didn’t make the apex. Yes other drivers would have given Hamilton more room than Max (and so the debate really wasn’t around whether Max takes blame but about whether Max should be thinking about the bigger picture - a worthy debate because I don’t think the Max of this year would pinch Hamilton as tightly this year knowing that the only driver who will lose out if things go wrong in that situation is the guy on the outside) but was still Hamilton’s fault ultimately. But to say it was on purpose was all a bit off really.

I don’t really care who is or isn’t considered worse, but you really do struggle to look at all things related to RB objectively, and it’s a consistent theme in all of your posts.
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I was never saying Toto is worse in general. But that specific comment about someone deserving to be crashed out to learn a lesson is horrible. Ive consistently said they all objectively are hypocrites and talk absolute shite.

But yeah the DTS comments from Toto saying someone deserved a horrible crash is a terrible one.

Horner was wrong to say Hamilton did it in purpose but was correct in the statement that he was at fault. Hamilton went in too quick or broke too late etc and simply got it all very wrong in that corner.

So really no I don't struggle to look objectively since I criticise both Horner and Toto.

Leclerc left Hamilton a lot less space this year which shows the difference between this year and last was simply that Lewis didn't feck it up this time.

It was just a shame Lewis got 25 points gained for crashing out Max is all. Not deserved but it happens in racing.

I just don't subscribe to the idea Horner is terrible and Toto is great or in any way better is all. As I said they all talk an extreme amount of shite.

It's similar to football really. Everyone's tribal to a fault mate.
 
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laughtersassassin said:
I was never saying Toto is worse in general. But that specific comment about someone deserving to be crashed out to learn a lesson is horrible. Ive consistently said they all objectively are hypocrites and talk absolute shite.

But yeah the DTS comments from Toto saying someone deserved a horrible crash is a terrible one.

Horner was wrong to say Hamilton did it in purpose but was correct in the statement that he was at fault. Hamilton went in too quick or broke too late etc and simply got it all very wrong in that corner.

So really no I don't struggle to look objectively since I criticise both Horner and Toto.

Leclerc left Hamilton a lot less space this year which shows the difference between this year and last was simply that Lewis didn't feck it up this time.

It was just a shame Lewis got 25 points gained for crashing out Max is all. Not deserved but it happens in racing.

I just don't subscribe to the idea Horner is terrible and Toto is great or in any way better is all. As I said they all talk an extreme amount of shite.

It's similar to football really. Everyone's tribal to a fault mate.
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I get it. But we are focussing on one thing. I don’t think anyone is saying Toto is a saint but I do think it’s a valid opinion, even if you disagree, that Horner is the worst of the lot on the grid.

And I get the tribalism too. I just don’t like comments, such as the one in bold, which are clearly one sided, don’t even have relevance to the debate at hand, and are provided without context.

It’s like me finding a way to cram into a post how Max drove on Hamilton’s head, or Max brake checked Hamilton (see what I did there? ;) )
 
rpitroda said:
I get it. But we are focussing on one thing. I don’t think anyone is saying Toto is a saint but I do think it’s a valid opinion, even if you disagree, that Horner is the worst of the lot on the grid.

And I get the tribalism too. I just don’t like comments, such as the one in bold, which are clearly one sided, don’t even have relevance to the debate at hand, and are provided without context.

It’s like me finding a way to cram into a post how Max drove on Hamilton’s head, or Max brake checked Hamilton (see what I did there? ;) )
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I was never accusing Hamilton of anything other than fecking up a corner at Silverstone. My only issue with Hamilton and Silverstone now is that he was saying how Leclerc left him more space when in fact we can all see that wasn't true.

It's racing though it happens. Least with the ones your mentioned it had less of an effect points wise.

And thankfully in that incident Horner wasn't going around saying Lewis deserved to have a car landed on him Sausage kerb was the big problem there as we all know. Compounded what would have been minor or no contact into a big incident.

I personally think who's worse changes on the day depending what happened to them.

Even take Abu Dhabi before we get to Masi incident we have Toto pleading/moaning for no saftey car early on (ridiculous as it for Saftey) and then Red bull and Horner doing the same/similar later.

Really I don't blame either to be honest. It's expected in elite sport and usually the media are what drums up the real issue by exaggerating and or taking stuff out of context constantly. And that then riles up the respective fans
 
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fishfingers15 said:
Why are we slowly but surely sliding to dick swinging between Verstappen and Hamilton when we should all be dumping on Ferrari letting Red bull run away with it.
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Because people never really got over Abu Dhabi and its going to be like that for a while.
 
Lewis and Max are easily the best drivers on the grid. Why is it so hard for people to appreciate both? You take one of them out and F1 would've been a snoozefest past couple seasons.
 
They have moved on from last year.

FZEuGVVXkAA3JbR
 
Besides the obvious, the devil inside of me really wants to see Schumacher at Ferrari to watch the power dynamics… especially if he performs. Probably the most powerful name associated with that brand other than Ferrari or Agnelli family.
 
The Firestarter said:
Because people never really got over Abu Dhabi and its going to be like that for a while.
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Abu Dhabi will be put to rest when hamilton gets title number 8 and not before that.

Though i think the Abu Dhabi fiasco has extended his stay in f1. I think he may have retired if he had gotten no 8.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Why are we slowly but surely sliding to dick swinging between Verstappen and Hamilton when we should all be dumping on Ferrari letting Red bull run away with it.
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Because the Ferrari slip ups were inevitable.

And last season was one of the biggest stains on the sport for many years.
 
Ferrari will get stronger in the second half of the season as the pressure of a championship falls away and their indecision around managing Leclerc and Sainz won't matter.

Ferrari are fast, Leclerc has shown he can handle Max and Lewis. This race all 6 cars finished within 15 seconds - there could be some epic racing to come.
 
The Firestarter said:
Because people never really got over Abu Dhabi and its going to be like that for a while.
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No, why would they? There was a chance for a Brititsh driver to cement his position as the GOAT and was robbed by an out of control official who was ultimately fired because of it. You expect people to just shrug and move on?

Also, in relation to the discussion in this thread, the total lack of grace and class from Horner is noteworthy here. He could easily have come out after Abu Dhabi and said "you know what, we were lucky there with the way the rules were interpretted". It wouldn't have effected the result, Max would still be champion and history is littered with people holding their hands up when they've benefitted from dodgy decisions, but that kind of behaviour is beyond him.
 
slyadams said:
No, why would they? There was a chance for a Brititsh driver to cement his position as the GOAT and was robbed by an out of control official who was ultimately fired because of it. You expect people to just shrug and move on?

Also, in relation to the discussion in this thread, the total lack of grace and class from Horner is noteworthy here. He could easily have come out after Abu Dhabi and said "you know what, we were lucky there with the way the rules were interpretted". It wouldn't have effected the result, Max would still be champion and history is littered with people holding their hands up when they've benefitted from dodgy decisions, but that kind of behaviour is beyond him.
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Keep the GOAT pish to American sports. There is no F1 GOAT, and never will be unless it becomes a spec series.
 
altodevil said:
Keep the GOAT pish to American sports. There is no F1 GOAT, and never will be unless it becomes a spec series.
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The same is true of all sports in all ways. Its always a judgement call ultimately backed up by stats and informed analysis.
 
slyadams said:
No, why would they? There was a chance for a Brititsh driver to cement his position as the GOAT and was robbed by an out of control official who was ultimately fired because of it. You expect people to just shrug and move on?

Also, in relation to the discussion in this thread, the total lack of grace and class from Horner is noteworthy here. He could easily have come out after Abu Dhabi and said "you know what, we were lucky there with the way the rules were interpretted". It wouldn't have effected the result, Max would still be champion and history is littered with people holding their hands up when they've benefitted from dodgy decisions, but that kind of behaviour is beyond him.
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I think blaming Masi entirely is harsh. He got some split second decisions wrong. I’d really blame the race stewards who came up with some absolute nonsense to reject Mercedes’ protest, which can only have been because they didn’t want to have to change the result. That seems to get overlooked and is a far greater issue in my eyes than one guy doing his best and making an error.
 
Was it really a split second decision to only allow 3 of the lapped cars to pass the safety car?
I was watching it live and there was plenty of time for him to think about it before he made that unbelievable decision.

F1 is a multi billion pounds sport and you simply cannot be allowed to make such unsupportable decisions with impunity.
He was rightly sanctioned and F1 is a much better sport without him.
 
hp88 said:
They have moved on from last year.

FZEuGVVXkAA3JbR
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Sort of funny that they have put it in the past and genuinely seem fine with eachother now, yet the fans have built up this raging rivalry that shows no signs of stopping.

I'm glad that 1 of them aren't in a position to carry on this saga, it was getting far too toxic. Another season of them going toe to toe would have been crazy.
 
From Ted Kravitz Skyf1 column about Alonso move to AM:

I think its far fetched, but it doesn raise a interesting point. If hamilton retired end of this season or next season. Who would Mercedes replace him with? They'd need a experienced benchmark driver (russell doesn't have the experience at present). So the only choices would be Max (not possible as he signed a new RB deal) and Alonso.


".......Is Mercedes power a factor in the deal?
Ted: "What it also does do is reunite Fernando with the Mercedes engine family, which I think is an interesting angle. Fernando hasn't been powered by Mercedes since he left McLaren the first time round under a bit of a cloud 15 years ago.

"So this would have needed a sign-off from Toto Wolff, which it obviously got.

"Is it ridiculous to think that Mercedes wanted Fernando back in their family just to see what he was like?...."
 

Long story short: Alpine have potentially fumbled Piastri going to McLaren because they didn't think Alonso would leave. Mark Webber has been making moves for his driver it seems...
 
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