F1 2022 Season

TheMagicFoolBus said:
Missed your post so apologies for the belated reply.

Frankly nothing Horner has done in the press is as actually bad as Toto actively encouraging a race director to disregard safety measures so as to give his team an advantage. Of course I can easily imagine Horner doing this had the positions been swapped, but this is more or less my point.

Horner faffing about in the press is of far less consequence than Toto petitioning the race director to not deploy a safety car - again though, these two are absolutely birds of a feather and undoubtedly would have acted the same had circumstances been different.
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Horner literally was petitioning saying “we only need one racing lap” encouraging the SC rules to be ignored. So I think you’re wrong.
 
Camy89 said:
I find Max very difficult to warm to, likely because I find Horner insufferable and whiny. He’s a very good driver though, I can’t deny that but he seems slightly more mature and level headed this year with his driving.

Probably a big factor is the fact he’s got daylight between him and the rest of the pack in the championship
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Agree with this.
There is no doubting Max is a really special talent and he is definitely fulfilling his potential.
But like you, I don't really like him as a person.
But I accept that is just my opinion.
And similarly, Red Bull are a brilliant racing team ably led by Horner.
But I really don't like him as a person either.

Very well done to Mercedes for turning a terrible car into a competitive one. Albeit taking half a season.

The second half could be quite exciting in terms of racing with Mercedes back in connection.
 
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slyadams said:
Horner literally was petitioning saying “we only need one racing lap” encouraging the SC rules to be ignored. So I think you’re wrong.
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Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.
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I think both are bad, but if that’s a wash then on the rest Horner is streets ahead.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Surely you can see the difference between safety car procedure once the danger has passed versus deploying a safety car in the first place?

And again, my point isn't that Horner is some saint or is better. It's that he and Wolff are equally selfish pricks.
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Seems a strange point to make when you consider Horner has many more examples of being a prick. But meh.
 
Alonso to AM - backwards move so reckon he had no choice.
 
That's really a shame, in my opinion. Alonso should in a somewhat competitive car, and Aston Martin isn't even trending in that direction.

Even if the scoreboard doesn't show it, hasn't he actually been better than Ocon this season?
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Fernando Alonso to make shock move from Alpine to Aston Martin, joining on "multi-year deal" from 2023; Alonso will partner Lance Stroll after Sebastian Vettel confirmed retirement; Door open for Oscar Piastri to replace Alonso at Alpine
This really has shocked me, I did not think AM would go for him.

Fernando Alonso to join Aston Martin as Sebastian Vettel's replacement for Formula 1 2023 | F1 News (skysports.com)
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I should have put a bet on. Knew Alonso would be the choice for AM. Sigh.

Stroll Senior, wants to make his son a WDC. Getting in former champions is one way to go about it, i.e. learning from them.

Cant wait to see what happens when one AM has got new upgrades and the other doesnt for a race weekend next season.
 
Zarlak said:
What a bizarre move. All the news has always been that Alpine love Alonso and all the help he gives them, he's been in good form this season and then he randomly takes a gigantic step backwards. Surely the move is to get rid of Ocon.
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Theres been fallout between Alpine and Alonso recently. They werent offering him the deal he wanted and there were rumours of a amicable split at end of this season between them.
 
dinostar77 said:
Theres been fallout between Alpine and Alonso recently. They werent offering him the deal he wanted and there were rumours of a amicable split at end of this season between them.
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Think they were offering 1 year and he wanted more - which he's now got at Aston

Piastri probably deserves a seat somewhere this year and if Renault had a customer team for their engines I suspect he would have got one so perhaps not a bad thing for them to be able to give him a seat in Renault next season and Ocan is head of alonso this year anyway
 
dinostar77 said:
Theres been fallout between Alpine and Alonso recently. They werent offering him the deal he wanted and there were rumours of a amicable split at end of this season between them.
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Alpine also backed themselves into a corner last year when they inexplicably gave Ocon a 3 year deal until the end of the 2024 season.
 
dinostar77 said:
I should have put a bet on. Knew Alonso would be the choice for AM. Sigh.

Stroll Senior, wants to make his son a WDC. Getting in former champions is one way to go about it, i.e. learning from them.

Cant wait to see what happens when one AM has got new upgrades and the other doesnt for a race weekend next season.
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I can understand that, but lets be honest Lance is NEVER going to get even close to being a WDC.
 
Surprising move given the timing of the decision. It’s clear that Alonso wanted a longer term deal and Alpine weren’t giving it. Aston Martin have the money and people to start making strides forward over the coming season, Dan Fallows has the competency to get that car further up the grid than what it’s currently doing.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I can understand that, but lets be honest Lance is NEVER going to get even close to being a WDC.
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would take Aston developing a car a second a lap quicker than everybody else and the other Aston driver to act as his tail gunner all season... throw in a bit of luck and then perhaps just perhaps ... very unlikely but some crazy double diffuser type invention that catches everybody off guard and just about imaginable
 
Disappointing to see Alonso move to Aston Martin. My favourite driver but such an unlikeable team, who in addition to that are nowhere right now either.
 
sun_tzu said:
would take Aston developing a car a second a lap quicker than everybody else and the other Aston driver to act as his tail gunner all season... throw in a bit of luck and then perhaps just perhaps ... very unlikely but some crazy double diffuser type invention that catches everybody off guard and just about imaginable
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Even with all you say coming together, it still wont happen.
 
Looking at the Grid for 2023 so far am I right in thinking

Red Bull - Max and Perez
Ferrari - Le Clerc and Sainz
Merc - Hamilton and Russell
Alpine - Ocan and Piastri
Aston - Alonso and Stoll
Mclaren - Norris and Potentially Ricciardo
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and TBC
Alpha Tauri - Gasly and TBC
Haas - Magnussen and TBC
Williams - TBC and TBC

Gut feel is that now Aston have gone for Alonso Ricciardo stays for a year as nobody else will match his wages

Zhou probably brings enough advertising to keep his seat

Schumacher could possibly move - Alfa Tauri might be the only real step up he can make this year?

Tsunoda has probably done enough to get a seat somewhere - willliams? - probably alongside latifi given the money he brings to the table

which leaves the last seat at haas - perhaps they will give fittipaldi a chance?

Certainly does not look like there will be much major movement this year
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
The bolded was literally my original point - the poster I quoted had a go at me for suggesting that Horner and Wolff were equivalent morally.

I also would further suggest that Wolff's conduct last year went beyond the pale versus whatever anyone says in the media - pushing a race director to not deploy a safety car so as to advantage your own team is fecking ridiculous and unacceptable. Racing is obviously dangerous but a team principal advocating for unsafe conditions to preserve an advantage is indefensible.

Again though, my point is that Horner would have done the exact same thing had the positions been reversed - I'm certainly not arguing that Horner is a saint, I'm arguing that he and Wolff are cut from the same cloth and anyone who thinks one is morally superior to the other is silly and biased.
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That's not why I called you out at all, and you know it. You said:
TheMagicFoolBus said:
They are equally bad and ridiculous and if you feel differently you are betraying your own bias, end of story
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This was, and still is, a petulant position to take: "I'm right and if you disagree you're wrong". Its also almost certainly untrue because I disagree almost universally with the statement "they're both as bad as each other". Its a cop out people use all the time, very commonly with politicians and countries. Its almost never the case two things just happen to be perfectly equal.

I stand by my position Horner is a more odious character and as many in this thread have shown this isn't a unique opinion.
 
Alpine have a potential world class talent in Oscar Piastri waiting to get a drive - so it's not the end of the world for them.

Does seem a bit of a strange backwards/sideways move to go to AM, but he's obviously confident their 3d printer/scanner is going to be good next year.
 
sun_tzu said:
Looking at the Grid for 2023 so far am I right in thinking

Red Bull - Max and Perez
Ferrari - Le Clerc and Sainz
Merc - Hamilton and Russell
Alpine - Ocan and Piastri
Aston - Alonso and Stoll
Mclaren - Norris and Potentially Ricciardo
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and TBC
Alpha Tauri - Gasly and TBC
Haas - Magnussen and TBC
Williams - TBC and TBC

Gut feel is that now Aston have gone for Alonso Ricciardo stays for a year as nobody else will match his wages

Zhou probably brings enough advertising to keep his seat

Schumacher could possibly move - Alfa Tauri might be the only real step up he can make this year?

Tsunoda has probably done enough to get a seat somewhere - willliams? - probably alongside latifi given the money he brings to the table

which leaves the last seat at haas - perhaps they will give fittipaldi a chance?

Certainly does not look like there will be much major movement this year
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Piastri is I think nailed on for Alonso's seat.
Fittipaldi is an interesting choice, It would be good to see a Fittipaldi back on the F1 grid. Emerson Fittipaldi was a fantastic driver, Formula One World Championship and the Indianapolis 500 twice each and the CART championship once.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Alpine have a potential world class talent in Oscar Piastri waiting to get a drive - so it's not the end of the world for them.

Does seem a bit of a strange backwards/sideways move to go to AM, but he's obviously confident their 3d printer/scanner is going to be good next year.
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Given Alonso's track record of picking which team to move to and when I'm less confident
 
sun_tzu said:
Looking at the Grid for 2023 so far am I right in thinking

Red Bull - Max and Perez
Ferrari - Le Clerc and Sainz
Merc - Hamilton and Russell
Alpine - Ocan and Piastri
Aston - Alonso and Stoll
Mclaren - Norris and Potentially Ricciardo
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and TBC
Alpha Tauri - Gasly and TBC
Haas - Magnussen and TBC
Williams - TBC and TBC

Gut feel is that now Aston have gone for Alonso Ricciardo stays for a year as nobody else will match his wages

Zhou probably brings enough advertising to keep his seat

Schumacher could possibly move - Alfa Tauri might be the only real step up he can make this year?

Tsunoda has probably done enough to get a seat somewhere - willliams? - probably alongside latifi given the money he brings to the table

which leaves the last seat at haas - perhaps they will give fittipaldi a chance?

Certainly does not look like there will be much major movement this year
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Schumacher to Alpha-Tauri would be a strange move, in my opinion. He is beginning to prove himself with Haas, and it's not like Alpha-Tauri have proven themselves to be much more competitive this year.

I'm not sure I agree on Tsunoda. Apart from a decent start his year he hasn't done much, and seems to have regressed over the last couple of months. He struggles with his temperament and unforced errors. Albon is certainly much more deserving of a seat, and Williams would be stupid to let him go.
 
It was the only logical option available for Alonso. Realistically he is never going to any of the top 3 teams . Thats RBR , Mercedes and Ferrari . Mclaren isn't available for him ,and STR has a pool of youngsters from their. RBR program . Then there's Haas , Alfa , Williams and Aston Martin . Of those 4 ,I think Aston Martin has the best hope of going forward if they can get it right . Alpine made up their mind about Ocon and Piastri . Piastri has a good future, Ocon ,well we've seen his best and he cannot beat Alonso . So that left Alonso with Aston Martin as the only logical choice
 
Mike Smalling said:
Schumacher to Alpha-Tauri would be a strange move, in my opinion. He is beginning to prove himself with Haas, and it's not like Alpha-Tauri have proven themselves to be much more competitive this year.

I'm not sure I agree on Tsunoda. Apart from a decent start his year he hasn't done much, and seems to have regressed over the last couple of months. He struggles with his temperament and unforced errors. Albon is certainly much more deserving of a seat, and Williams would be stupid to let him go.
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I think alpha tauri has a lot more potential for next season - plus if (when) the porshe deal goes through I suspect having schumacher in their car would be desirable from their perspective
Given how good the Red Bull is this season and how many parts Alpha are likley to copy paste (legaly?) next year I can see them making a step up

I think Mclaren would consider schumacher if they could get rid of ricciardo but that looks unlikely next year so certainly possible he stays another year at haas

As for Albon I think hes better than latiffi just unfortunately for him he brings lot less money to the party
 
sun_tzu said:
Looking at the Grid for 2023 so far am I right in thinking

Red Bull - Max and Perez
Ferrari - Le Clerc and Sainz
Merc - Hamilton and Russell
Alpine - Ocan and Piastri
Aston - Alonso and Stoll
Mclaren - Norris and Potentially Ricciardo
Alfa Romeo - Bottas and TBC
Alpha Tauri - Gasly and TBC
Haas - Magnussen and TBC
Williams - TBC and TBC

Gut feel is that now Aston have gone for Alonso Ricciardo stays for a year as nobody else will match his wages

Zhou probably brings enough advertising to keep his seat

Schumacher could possibly move - Alfa Tauri might be the only real step up he can make this year?

Tsunoda has probably done enough to get a seat somewhere - willliams? - probably alongside latifi given the money he brings to the table

which leaves the last seat at haas - perhaps they will give fittipaldi a chance?

Certainly does not look like there will be much major movement this year
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Personally I'd say the only seats in doubt are the 2nd williams seat and danny rics seat (if he retires). Obviously until its confirmed the other alpine seat is open.

Tsunoda came to Alpha Tauri on behest of Honda. I might be wrong but i thought he would be there for awhile as it was part of the deal for the unbranded honda engines.

Zhou will keep his seat. China is a potential huge market for F1 and we havent had a Chinese GP yet with Zhou on the grid. Besides he seems to be doing ok.

I dont see schmacher leaving the ferrari stable anytime soon. Eventually he will get his chance in a ferrari, but he needs a few more seasons under his belt of learning.
 
If he eventually has driven for every team on the grid, does he get a free move, loyalty card style?
 
Albon will have a Williams seat next year. I think Mick will stay with Haas. Tsunoda is definitely in trouble at Alpha Tauri, he has not impressed lately and there's still question marks over his maturity. Zhou will get another year at Alfa Romeo and I'm not sure on Ricciardo, it seems McLaren want him to stay on another year and Ricciardo has said he's committed but a lot can change from now until the end of the season.
 
Ahmer Baig said:
It was the only logical option available for Alonso. Realistically he is never going to any of the top 3 teams . Thats RBR , Mercedes and Ferrari . Mclaren isn't available for him ,and STR has a pool of youngsters from their. RBR program . Then there's Haas , Alfa , Williams and Aston Martin . Of those 4 ,I think Aston Martin has the best hope of going forward if they can get it right . Alpine made up their mind about Ocon and Piastri . Piastri has a good future, Ocon ,well we've seen his best and he cannot beat Alonso . So that left Alonso with Aston Martin as the only logical choice
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I agree, its his only logical choice. Interesting that both Riccardo and Alonso have walked away from alpine. That suggests to me that neither had much confidence in the team's long term future to challenge for race wins.

AM is a gamble, but Stroll senior is starting to get alot of good talented people together. It will still take AM time to get their personnel numbers upto what the top three have circa 800 people in their respective F1 camps.

AM will get ALOT of CFD and Wind Tunnel time the latter half of this season and over winter testing (only 2nd to williams in the amount they will get). They could jump themselves up the pecking order next season.

However Alonso's career can be defined by 6 words "Wrong Team, Wrong Car, Wrong Time"....
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Albon will have a Williams seat next year. I think Mick will stay with Haas. Tsunoda is definitely in trouble at Alpha Tauri, he has not impressed lately and there's still question marks over his maturity. Zhou will get another year at Alfa Romeo and I'm not sure on Ricciardo, it seems McLaren want him to stay on another year and Ricciardo has said he's committed but a lot can change from now until the end of the season.
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Surprised by that, he's been woeful this year and I would've thought McLaren would be itching to get him out.
 
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