F1 2021 Season

[Balljy]

It's not feasible given the the dynamics of the place, and the size of the cars. The biggest change to the course they're seeing in years is the area around Portier but it still won't bring overtakes. The key things for overtakes is long straights with deep braking zones, we get that as we come out of the tunnel, but we'll never see those pressure points across the circuit.

Monaco will unfortunately be a boring race forever more.

It will never happen, but Prince Albert of Monaco was talking about changing the layout a couple of years ago to move it onto some reclaimed land. I saw some examples of what would happen if it went over to the land and it included a long straight over the water followed by some passing areas, before heading back over the water back to the existing track. I am pretty sure the cost would be extreme though.

Monaco Could End Up Changing The Track Layout In Future - WTF1

 

[spontaneus1]

The problem isn't Monaco, it's the same problem as every other circuit. The cars are way too big these days and impossible to follow.

 

[Gringo]

Its the cars. F1 is too big and powerful for the track. Watch the Formula E highlights from two weeks ago and its probably the most exciting race I've ever seen at Monaco.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The problem isn't Monaco, it's the same problem as every other circuit. The cars are way too big these days and impossible to follow.

Its the cars. F1 is too big and powerful for the track. Watch the Formula E highlights from two weeks ago and its probably the most exciting race I've ever seen at Monaco.

Bingo. Just watch the f2 races from the same day, lots going on.

It'll never be a high number overtaking track due to the nature of the circuit, but at least it gives them a chance to send it on some corners.

Ah well. Onto Baku! that should prove at least a bit more exciting with the drag strip straight

 

[Abizzz]

Monaco is only good when it rains, this years was so boring, not even a safety car to spice things up.
There is no real way to alter the track, even if they could it would cost a huge amount of money.
The problem is all the driver love the place, they all want to win it, it will never be removed.
The only thing I can think of, is small cars just for Monaco, so that overtaking and passing could happen, but in reality thats not happening, maybe the big 3-4 teams could do it, but not the rest.
What's the answer ? I dont have a clue really, build a new proper racing track ? but that would take away the glamor.

Smaller cars for everywhere. Smaller tires and wings to go with the now tiny engines. It would make driving a lot more difficult too. All other tracks would benefit from it as well in my opinion.

 

[ChaddyP]

Why cant we just accept Monaco is more about qualifying than the actual race. Its a one off, it is completely different than any one race. If you view it as a spectacle and show case and not an actual wheel to wheel race where there's action every minute then maybe you will be less disappointed.

I would be more interested in binning Hungary which is similar but without the prestige

 

[spontaneus1]

Bingo. Just watch the f2 races from the same day, lots going on.

It'll never be a high number overtaking track due to the nature of the circuit, but at least it gives them a chance to send it on some corners.

Ah well. Onto Baku! that should prove at least a bit more exciting with the drag strip straight

Personally I also never understood why drivers right racing around Monaco right on the edge is boring, but blasting past someone on a straight thanks to DRS is seen as entertaining.

Also not to mention quali in Monaco is without the best of the year.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Smaller cars for everywhere. Smaller tires and wings to go with the now tiny engines. It would make driving a lot more difficult too. All other tracks would benefit from it as well in my opinion.

Good point.

 

[stu_1992]

Personally I also never understood why drivers right racing around Monaco right on the edge is boring, but blasting past someone on a straight thanks to DRS is seen as entertaining.

Also not to mention quali in Monaco is without the best of the year.

Unless someone puts it into the wall to red flag the session just as Q3 is warming up.

 

[senorgregster]

Best thing they could do is make Monaco have their own 1 off kind of machinery. Put them in an F2 car or a classic f1 from the 00's. Look at the size difference between the old and new cars, no wonder they struggle now compared to previous years. Even then over taking was limited!.

I appreciate Monaco for the skill level, but IMO it's not exciting to watch as a race. I can put up with it as a 1 off, I just hope they don't do more and more street circuits in the chase of money over genuine racing.

 

[Zarlak]

I love Monaco.

Yeah there's no overtaking but watching the cars go within millimetres of the barriers is brilliant.
It's a very unique track that is generally won on a Saturday.

It's nice to have a calendar with varying types of track personalities

But races aren't supposed to be won on Saturday, they're supposed to be won on Sunday.

 

[redshaw]

Maybe the new rules coming can help cars get a slipstream again out the tunnel section at Monaco or even at the first corner. We used to see overtakes and close attempts there.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Maybe the new rules coming can help cars get a slipstream again out the tunnel section at Monaco or even at the first corner. We used to see overtakes and close attempts there.

In theory yes it "should" if it works how they expect.

If you look at how Perez was closing down Norris, he should have been able to get passed him fairly easily - but once he hit the turbulent air his pace advantage was cut down to a minimal amount. With the new cars the idea is way less turbulent air so that they can follow a lot closer, then get within a striking distance without losing all grip.

The other issue is though the cars will be the same size, and actually around 30kg HEAVIER than the current cars. As much as I admire F1 in their pursuit of new hybrid technology, it's really not helped the racing.

 

[psychdelicblues]

 

[Norris]

Interesting, but you'd think that the chances of the wheel gun not perfectly aligning with the ridges of the Nut would be fairly common.

 

[Cheimoon]

Interesting, but you'd think that the chances of the wheel gun not perfectly aligning with the ridges of the Nut would be fairly common.

There was a discussion of that in a Radio-Canada article today. The author pointed out that Wolff blamed Bottas for not parking exactly at the right spot, but then three out of four wheel crews anyway managed perfectly. Also, the fastest stop ever is one of Verstappen's in Brasil, and he was also parked slightly off the perfect spot for that one.

Bottas last weekend:

Verstappen in Brasil 2019:

Link: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...s-hamilton-toto-wolff-red-bull-max-verstappen

 

[Adam-Utd]

Interesting, but you'd think that the chances of the wheel gun not perfectly aligning with the ridges of the Nut would be fairly common.

The issue is he pushed the trigger before engaging onto the nut.

Usually you'd have the socket fully engaged into the nut before pressing the trigger, but on this occasion he had already activated it before being attached. This socket already spinning just essentially grinded the nut to pieces.

It seems unfortunately the wheel gun man gets a nudge in the back just before he leans in, and probably causes him to hit the trigger by accident.

You can see it in this video here. Note this was already after a few attempts, but you can see how the nut is damaged.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

removing that wheel nut.

 

[Norris]

Cheers for the replies lads. Yeah, so then just a combination of things that went wrong for Bottas then.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Formula 1 boss Stefano Domenicali has tabled the idea of awarding bonus championship points to drivers who achieve a maximum level of domination during a Grand Prix weekend.

Staring at this summer's British Grand Prix at Silverstone, Formula 1 will trial at three venues its innovative Sprint Qualifying format where the winner will be awarded three points while second place will be worth two points and third place worth one point.

As the sport seeks new ways to incentivize drivers and improve the show for the fans, Domenicali has suggested that F1 could introduce a 'Grand Slam' of sorts, whereby a driver that qualifies on pole and wins the following day after leading every lap while also setting the fastest lap would be eligible for extra points.

Historically, such an accomplishment has been a rare occurrence in modern F1, even for seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton who carried out the feat only six times over the course of his 98 career wins in F1.

I am not opposed to this idea, it is rare and extra points for it is not a bad idea.
In a tight season, could make all the difference.

 

[Cheimoon]

Formula 1 boss Stefano Domenicali has tabled the idea of awarding bonus championship points to drivers who achieve a maximum level of domination during a Grand Prix weekend.

Staring at this summer's British Grand Prix at Silverstone, Formula 1 will trial at three venues its innovative Sprint Qualifying format where the winner will be awarded three points while second place will be worth two points and third place worth one point.

As the sport seeks new ways to incentivize drivers and improve the show for the fans, Domenicali has suggested that F1 could introduce a 'Grand Slam' of sorts, whereby a driver that qualifies on pole and wins the following day after leading every lap while also setting the fastest lap would be eligible for extra points.

Historically, such an accomplishment has been a rare occurrence in modern F1, even for seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton who carried out the feat only six times over the course of his 98 career wins in F1.

I am not opposed to this idea, it is rare and extra points for it is not a bad idea.
In a tight season, could make all the difference.

It doesn't lead to more spectacle though, does it? I mean, if you manage to come out first after pitting during the race, then it means that you were really far ahead. Essentially, this bonus point would serve to confirm that it was a boring weekend in terms of race leadership.

 

[dinostar77]

https://www.grandprix247.com/2021/05/29/reader-writes-f1-2022-a-new-performance-level/

Interesting article, brake management could be as important as tyre management next season. Especially as you are limited to one set of pads and discs for the the entire GP weekend.

Tyre blankets are gone next season so heating up those tyres is gonna be down to the driver. Gonna make pitstops for tyre changes more perilously for being at the mercy of an overcut from your rival.

Think 2022 could be a genuine changing of the grid order for teams. But also you need a driver who will be able to adapt to the new cars and the requirements for racing them.

 

[Leg-End]

Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about the brake regulations, if we end up with cars poodling home just to save brakes or a real lack of significant running in practice sessions just so teams can save brakes for the race (once they get on top of these new cars) I don't see how that's positive but I guess we will find out.

The overcut will be massive next season though, unless they work out how to fire them up quickly (which I doubt) then it will be all about who dares to pit first.

 

[altodevil]

Can someone explain why this wouldn't be a potential safety concern?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about the brake regulations, if we end up with cars poodling home just to save brakes or a real lack of significant running in practice sessions just so teams can save brakes for the race (once they get on top of these new cars) I don't see how that's positive but I guess we will find out.

The overcut will be massive next season though, unless they work out how to fire them up quickly (which I doubt) then it will be all about who dares to pit first.

Can someone explain why this wouldn't be a potential safety concern?

Surely they've done plenty of testing in the back ground, I can't imagine it'll even get close to being 'worn out'.

If it did then the teams would rightly protest this and it would get kicked out immediately, nobody is going to be driving at 200mph and risking brake failure.

 

[Leg-End]

But it’s F1, they will push the boundaries on it until they are told otherwise. If you add endurance to the brake then you take away performance, simple as that.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

One set of pads and disk for the whole weekend !!
Just think 10 -15 laps of the race left pushing for the win and your on badly worn disks and pads.
Now to me that is a significant safety risk.
OK they will just produce disks and pads that will last longer, but still think there is a risk.

 

[sun_tzu]

If merc and red bull end up fighting till the end of the season it might give ferrari or mclaren a real opportunity to switch to 2022 development and get a head start

 

[Cheimoon]

One set of pads and disk for the whole weekend !!
Just think 10 -15 laps of the race left pushing for the win and your on badly worn disks and pads.
Now to me that is a significant safety risk.
OK they will just produce disks and pads that will last longer, but still think there is a risk.

You'd think they also thought of those things if those are the first comments in this thread, and that they figured out how to deal with that issue. I wonder what it is though. Maybe there will be something about the minimum state that these parts have to be in by the end of the race, with harsh penalties (couple of grid positions at the least) for transgressions?

 

[pauldyson1uk]

You'd think they also thought of those things if those are the first comments in this thread, and that they figured out how to deal with that issue. I wonder what it is though. Maybe there will be something about the minimum state that these parts have to be in by the end of the race, with harsh penalties (couple of grid positions at the least) for transgressions?

I have no doubt they have thought about it and developed longer lasting, but why ?
Dont really see a problem, with changing disks and pads.
Does having new disks and pads give an advantage, maybe it does.

 

[Zlaatan]

I have no doubt they have thought about it and developed longer lasting, but why ?
Dont really see a problem, with changing disks and pads.
Does having new disks and pads give an advantage, maybe it does.

It's got to be a cost issue right? I don't see any other reason why they'd do it.

To me it sounds like another reason for drivers to not go too fast which is a shame since they're already doing that to preserve both fuel and tires. I don't want F1 to be a series where looking after your car is such a huge part of it, it's supposed to be the ultimate racing series, not some sustainability challenge.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

It's got to be a cost issue right? I don't see any other reason why they'd do it.

To me it sounds like another reason for drivers to not go too fast which is a shame since they're already doing that to preserve both fuel and tires. I don't want F1 to be a series where looking after your car is such a huge part of it, it's supposed to be the ultimate racing series, not some sustainability challenge.

Maybe cost , like you I cant think of any other reason.
F1 should be all about speed , speed and speed, not tyre, fuel and now brake management

 

[F-Red]

If merc and red bull end up fighting till the end of the season it might give ferrari or mclaren a real opportunity to switch to 2022 development and get a head start

Ferrari switched 90-95% of their team onto 2022 development at the start of May.

 

[sun_tzu]

Ferrari switched 90-95% of their team onto 2022 development at the start of May.

I guess they have written off 2021 then... fair play to them though its an early call but given the amount of changes coming in it could be one that really pays off if they get it right

 

[F-Red]

I guess they have written off 2021 then... fair play to them though its an early call but given the amount of changes coming in it could be one that really pays off if they get it right

I think they wrote 2021 off at the back end of last year, I think their view was to get the car into a position of being an improvement on last year. They had confidence with the power unit upgrade and they just needed that confidence to correlate with the track performance and they then moved quickly onto it. Interesting to see if it yields anything, Haas started development on their car last year & have been open in saying that they're doing no upgrades on this years car.

 

[sun_tzu]

I think they wrote 2021 off at the back end of last year, I think their view was to get the car into a position of being an improvement on last year. They had confidence with the power unit upgrade and they just needed that confidence to correlate with the track performance and they then moved quickly onto it. Interesting to see if it yields anything, Haas started development on their car last year & have been open in saying that they're doing no upgrades on this years car.

I think 2022 could be really strange - there is the possibility somebody does a brawn (double diffuser) and finds a loophole that basically puts them so far ahead the championship is over before people can copy it

I do wonder what Lewis's appetite will be for 2022 if he wins the championship this year ... I can envisage a scenario where it envigorates him and he wants the chalange but more likley I could see him walking away so yeah 2022 really could be a strange one

 

[Adam-Utd]

Ferrari switched 90-95% of their team onto 2022 development at the start of May.

I guess they have written off 2021 then... fair play to them though its an early call but given the amount of changes coming in it could be one that really pays off if they get it right

Pretty much every manufacturer are 80% towards 2022 now.

A: there isn't much developing left to do, they're all pretty much at the maximum they can do within the rules

B: why spend millions on a car that you're throwing away next year? it just doesn't make any sense.

Maybe Merc/Red Bull will have one final push to get over the line and become champions, but for the likes of Ferrari/Mclaren/Alpine/Toro Rosso the difference between finishing 3rd or 6th wouldn't be big enough to outweigh the amount it would cost to develop the car.

This season is plenty competitive already anyway, I think it'll go down in history as one of the best.

I think 2022 could be really strange - there is the possibility somebody does a brawn (double diffuser) and finds a loophole that basically puts them so far ahead the championship is over before people can copy it

I do wonder what Lewis's appetite will be for 2022 if he wins the championship this year ... I can envisage a scenario where it envigorates him and he wants the chalange but more likley I could see him walking away so yeah 2022 really could be a strange one

With the cost cap it 'should' be closer than ever, but yes that's all part of the fun of F1, some clever people will think of something different and get a slight advantage. I just hope that the team that gets it wrong doesn't get stranded at the back for too long, seeing the likes of Haas and Williams struggle along at the back with no hope is no good for anybody.

 

[Cheimoon]

Maybe Merc/Red Bull will have one final push to get over the line and become champions, but for the likes of Ferrari/Mclaren/Alpine/Toro Rosso the difference between finishing 3rd or 6th wouldn't be big enough to outweigh the amount it would cost to develop the car.

Speaking of finishing 3rd-6th: I never considered this before, but in the latest season of Drive to Survive, they mentioned that there are big bucks (as in: a really significant amount of money) to be won by finishing higher in the manufacturers ranking, which is why the battle for third was so important at the end of last season. I looked that up online, but I couldn't find the amounts concerned - and admittedly, I wouldn't have known anyway how that compares to overall team budgets.

Does anybody know? Cause that might put a different perspective on this comment about teams not caring too much about finishing 3rd or 6th.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Speaking of finishing 3rd-6th: I never considered this before, but in the latest season of Drive to Survive, they mentioned that there are big bucks (as: a really significant amount of money) to be won by finishing higher in the manufacturers ranking, which is why the battle for third was so important at the end of last season. I looked that up online, but I couldn't find the amounts concerned - and admittedly, I wouldn't have known anyway how that compares to overall team budgets.

Does anybody know? Cause that might put a different perspective on this comment about teams not caring too much about finishing 3rd or 6th.

The prize money is several million usually - but the cost to develop your car would cost about the same amount. With the budget caps coming into effect next year it's more efficient to spend every penny now to make it as good as possible.

I can't find an official figure either - but usually i'd say the difference between 3rd and 4th would be about 30m dollars.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Azerbaijan GP Practice One Timesheet

Driver	Team	Time
1) Max Verstappen	Red Bull	1:43.184
2) Charles Leclerc	Ferrari	+0.043
3) Carlos Sainz	Ferrari	+0.337
4) Sergio Perez	Red Bull	+0.446
5) Daniel Ricciardo	McLaren	+0.548
6) Pierre Gasly	AlphaTauri	+0.573
7) Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	+0.709
8) Lando Norris	McLaren	+0.812
9) Fernando Alonso	Alpine	+1.593
10) Valtteri Bottas	Mercedes	+1.707
11) Kimi Raikkonen	Alfa Romeo	+1.759
12) Antonio Giovinazzi	Alfa Romeo	+1.908
13) Lance Stroll	Aston Martin	+2.050
14) Yuki Tsunoda	AlphaTauri	+2.200
15) Sebastian Vettel	Aston Martin	+2.231
16) Esteban Ocon	Alpine	+2.262
17) George Russell	Williams	+2.268
18) Nicholas Latifi	Williams	+2.268
19) Mick Schumacher	Haas	+3.715
20) Nikita Mazepin	Haas	+3.761