Say no more.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Say no more.
I still dont understand how Lewis drove into Max though.. He was already gearing back and looked to be in control. Probably this is due to my lack of knowledge on the sport/cars/driving/racing in general, but I just dont see it..
I mean if your going to tell somebody to strategically give the place back then to my mind your totally trying to go outside the spirit of handing the place back... once they issue instructions like that then we end up with people acting erratically
It's because as Lewis said Max brake checked him, if you watch from Max's POV and watch the text on the boards to the right you'll see it suddenly slow fairly quickly just before Hamilton hits him.
He braked 2.5 g's that a massive reduction in speed with how close Lewis was behind him he had no time to react and no place to go.
Yeah it's all a bit weird... no point to it really if the offending driver can choose where it's done. It's nearly as weird as thinking giving back a position gained illegally is a "punishment". Current F1 rules are shambolic all around.
Next year they'll do 2 laps behind a safety car and call that a race or something.
But Hamilton had time to gear back twice and talk about being brake checked in the meantime while max was slowing down. Surely someone with Lewis his driving skills could have prevented running into Max? I think also just Lewis - as he didnt know Max was requested to give back position - he was started and confused by Max slowing down and had moments of hesitation on what to do.. But that's not Max' fault right..
Fixed that for you factoring in the 2.4g deceleration and you know the actual rules and stewards findings
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-lap-37-collision.7GGfMvAnRIGPtMQphh7zCd.html
Red bull arent appealing, article is wrong.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-overruled-penalty-bid/
Not saying Hamilton didn't do anything wrong. He was definitely confused and didn't know what to do.
But Max BRAKE CHECKED him, come on.
I get that Max is your boy and everything, but "Lewis could have prevented hitting him" is a nonsense argument. Lewis could have avoided hitting Max by never leaving the pit lane, or by retiring, or running around the track instead of driving his Mercedes. That doesn't make it his responsibility.
Max slowed right down in the middle of the straight, and Lewis had no idea why and also slowed down. Then Max weaved a little bit, and stood on his brakes, with Lewis right behind him. Brake checking is illegal on the road as well as the race track, so unless you don't drive at all then you're being deliberately obtuse.
So Im not necessarily talking about who should be punished or not.. I read the above article as well and fully accept Max braked too soon according to the rules. It just baffles me that Lewis didnt manage to prevent rear ending Max.. I feel that if Max would have done the exact same thing while Lewis had known upfront from the FIA Max was giving him the place he would have just passed him without anyone batting an eye about the extent to Max' braking.
So Im not making a case Max should not be punished. Max is not my boy, I dislike him as a person as much as anyone as.
Im just baffled someone with Lewis his skills wasnt able to prevent hitting him from behind in this situation..
Again.. NOT making a case Max shouldnt be punished...
And again, he brake checked him, when would an f1 driver expect someone to brake like Max did out of nowhere. That's why Lewis ran into him, and even with all the skills in the world professionals still make mistakes
How close he was behind Max at the time he had no reaction time.
Its worth noting being an F1 driver places a lot of faith in everyone around you. When the lights go green they all floor it, they trust the car in front it going to go as well. When you're heading into a hard braking zone you trust people will brake at the right point and turn in giving room etc. Heading down a straight at 200mph with a car no more than a few metres in front you have faith the car in front is going to act consistently. When Lewis came up behind Max slowing down, half way in the middle of the track and changing direction he had no idea what was going on. Its easy to say "oh, just pass him", but for all Lewis knows Max can see something up ahead. Maybe Max has a problem that is making his car hard to control. Whilst Lewis is figuring out what's going on, Max slams on the brakes, which is about the most dangerous thing you can do because Lewis could easily have had a Red Bull car up and over his halo.
This is why people have such a problem with it, its just about the most dangerous thing you can do on the track and Max only got a 10s penalty for it.
I get that.. Its an understandle mistake.. Everyone makes mistakes, but you can still be surprised about it right?
I would have expected someone with Lewis his superior driving skills and talent to be able to prevent rearing Max in this situation (even though Max was in error) if he had time to gear back twice ánd talk about getting brake checked before actually running into him..
That's a bit of a straw man argument.
And if Lewis had to retire then max wins the championship he knew exactly what he was doing in my opinion.
Sometimes if people are telling you that it would not have been possible to avoid it, it’s best to take some note instead of keeping on saying someone of his ability could have avoided it. You’re entitled to your view, but a response to someone disagreeing with you isn’t to just keep saying what your view is. Put it this way, if Hamilton could have avoided it, why would he NOT have?
You’re also grouping two separate issues. If you watch the replay closely, even look at the telemetry, Lewis slowed down when he saw Max going slow. That was because he didn’t know why and didn’t realise he was being let past - if he did he just would have blasted past. You’ll see that he and Max were going at a similar speed I.e he had already slowed down enough to avoid the contact if Max had continued at his current speed. The second issue is that after that phase, Max slammed the brake. That was not expected and the gap was so small that it was not possible to react. It’s not like Lewis saw him going slow and just drove into the back of him. This has nothing to do with skill, this issue stems from someone doing something they simply shouldn’t be doing and doing what no one would expect them to - partly due to poor steward communication (Hamilton not knowing what was happening) which created the dumb situation in the first place, partly due to Max slamming the brakes. The former needs to be addressed because it’s ultimately what caused this. But even despite that, there was no reason for Max to brake.
Im not making an argument for anything. I am 100% on board with Max' punishment and im not trying to argue anything else.
I'm just stating my surprise it still happened to Lewis.
This. This is the real you.
I'm on no side here, I've hated Hamilton way back even before button did. The worst thing about you Max fans on here is not the complete lack of banter skills, no, it's the died in the wool attitude. It's one thing to have national pride, it's another to constantly defend someone who is actually dangerous because they get a little bit upset and act out like a child.
Stop hiding and you all tell us what you really think.
Why didn't they stick him on hards during the first red flag where he was guaranteed to come out in pole? No expert but surely following Mercedes' game plan from that grid position would have been sensible?
I think this is entirely uncalled for and looks like a deliberate misreading of @BrilliantOrange's posts.
They did. But then the second red flag happened and Max was in third again (due to Lewis' (in my opinion dirty) trick to feck up Max's tyre temperature for the first restart). They then had to do something to try and get past Lewis again so they fitted mediums for the second restart. That actually worked as Max was able to take back first position. So in short, Max started the race on Mediums, then switched to hard for the first restart, drove 1 lap on those, then switched back to mediums for the second restart.
I think they must have been banking on another red flag or safety car or something which would have allowed them to come off those mediums. Otherwise, it was a rather strange strategy move. The only other thing I can think of is putting him on mediums purely to get ahead, then hoping track position would be king. But I also find that a very dubious strategy. Overall I think even if you take away all the shenanigans, Hamilton probably ends up ahead of Max by the end purely on tyre choices.
I agree. I think with two red flags so close they thought there would be another one but when there wasn't there was only one outcome.
pirelli said they expected the mediums to hang on that amount of laps. I guess what they couldn’t legislate for though was 30+ qualifying style laps which clearly burnt them out faster than normal.
Mercedes got it bang on to be fair, hamilton has had great success on those hard tyres this season too
Ahh thanks! I guess that all makes sense, mich appreciated.
What's dirty about that trick though? If it's within the rules, it's OK. They're gunning for a championship here, everything goes that won't get penalized. It's not even dangerous, it's basically tactics.
1) strange argument. If a driver slows in front by such a massive margin then there could have veen an issue/crash/anything further ahead because it was such a strange manoeuvre. With weaving, lifting and braking from Max.
2) Max has been causing crashes for a long time. In this race he could've taken Lewis out at least once in turn 1 if Lewis hadn't taken avoiding action. He is a dangerous driver who the FIA are letting get away with it. Because a) they want and exciting title race with more viewers and b) they want a new champion again to generate more excitement. Max has previous, any other driver has to be careful around him because he is reckless and dangerous. Its just the logical approach. That doesn't mean don't ever overtake him, but he if he is making strange manoeuvres he may be brake checking you. Which is exactly why he got the penalty.
Of course if the car in front of you lifts and brakes you will shift down in case of incident.
Well they said 35 laps on the mediums I think. I think he had 37 when he put them on. So they must have been banking on slow laps or another red flag. They even got a lot of slow laps and you could still see it wasn’t the right choice.
Im not suggesting in the slightest Hamilton did so intentionally or anything..
One of the major skills of F1 drivers, especially the top ones like Max and Hamilton, is their insane ability to react to things happening around them in the fraction of a second, on the highest speed, with the utmost accuracy.. This isnt anything really different from that right? I feel they are constantly reacting to moved the other drivers are making.. So from that stance I was just surprised to see that this one was apparently such a different situation for Lewis than other situations in any race where they are adjusting their pace/direction based on overtakes/attacks/defences from other drivers..
And I fully agree there was no reason for Max to hit the brakes even further.. I mentioned mulitple times I think Max deserved the punishment and I dont blame Lewist for anything.. I was just surprised by his inability in this sence to avoid hitting Max..
Im surprised by footballers 20 times per game because of their inability to pass a ball 10 meters or to get a corner past the first post... It just doesnt happen to me very often Im surprised by 'inability' of F1 drivers, especially not the top ones.. Im usually just 100% amazed by everything they do all the time.. And this surprised me, given what Iver seen Lewis pull of so very often before..
Seriously, where the feck do you get from that Im a Max fan? Like seriously? Is it just because Im Dutch? Because I dont see how you can get from my posts here today that Im a Max fan?
In my limited experience many of Max's (online) fans come across as the F1 equivalent of United's social media fanbase; uncompromising in their views while some are border-line abusive of anyone who opposes them. On social media I frequently see him labelled as "GOAT" FFS.
You only have to see the official 'Driver of the Day' results each race for evidence of their unquestioning support.
with all the VSC laps they thought he should make it easily, but I guess with hamilton pushing him hard constantly they just burnt out asap
There were at least 3 rear end shunts at the track yesterday. One in the F2 race, one that caused the second red flag and Hamilton into the back of Verstappen. A car going slow directly in front of you is probably the hardest incident to avoid. It is why it has been said that this track with so many blind highspeed corners is so dangerous. When a car brakes at a force of 2.5 G from as close as Hamilton was the Verstappen it is impossible to avoid a collision.
Pretty sure I read somewhere that if Lewis would be informed of the situation he would have to pass him cuz otherwise he is negatively impacting Max race who has to slow down to let Lewis pass.
But yeah I understand why he wouldn't passed him. And because of that it is stupid to solely blame the incident on Max cuz both played the same game, to be behind on DRS zone.
TBF whole thing was unnecessary feck up because FIA didn't informed both drivers at the same time.