F1 2021 Season

Verminator said:
If the brake-check was deemed dangerous driving, and worthy of points on Max's licence, how can the in-race punishment be so insignificant as a 10 second penalty?
Is there a framework or precedent that dictates this?
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I do agree with you that if worthy of points then maybe worthy more then the 10 second pen, but on the other hand no pen for the last race is good.
Makes it a level playing field for last race, despite what is being said by one or 2 , I dont want Max to start the last race with a pen.
 
Can't believe I missed this. Well I can, given the time difference, but it's annoying.

One question- how come Max wasn't able to catch Lewis with his broken wing at the end? Were his tyres that bad?
 
RobinLFC said:
Them being level on points rather than Hamilton let's say 2 points behind doesn't change much, if anything at all though, does it? Unless you think they'll end up middle of the pack for points, Hamilton would've needed to win / be ahead of Verstappen regardless.

Just makes for a nicer narrative but changes nothing.
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Well yes, your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying. The hype, the build up all becomes something they can push even more. A few points either way doesn't change the situation no, but that's not as good as a true neck and neck last man standing story to sell.

At least that would be a reason I guess. Rather than the shear incompetence we all think anyway.
 
Redlambs said:
Not as talented. Simple.
hehehe!​
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Lewis is the goat.
pauldyson1uk said:
yes his tyres were bad.
Lewis was still getting fastest laps , so the damage must have been only slight.
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Oh right, from the clip I saw it looked like fibreglass flew everywhere on the impact. Did he set the fastest lap like that or just before?
 
Redlambs said:
Well yes, your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying. The hype, the build up all becomes something they can push even more. A few points either way doesn't change the situation no, but that's not as good as a true neck and neck last man standing story to sell.

At least that would be a reason I guess. Rather than the shear incompetence we all think anyway.
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Agreed. They wouldn't have given him a 10" penalty if the gap with Bottas was less than 10", and I think a grid penalty or something like that would've been likely had it not been the last race of the season next week.
 
RobinLFC said:
Them being level on points rather than Hamilton let's say 2 points behind doesn't change much, if anything at all though, does it? Unless you think they'll end up middle of the pack for points, Hamilton would've needed to win / be ahead of Verstappen regardless.

Just makes for a nicer narrative but changes nothing.
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it changes the fact that max can take them both out now and be wc. Pretty big I’d say
 
This championship is over as far as I'm concerned. Lewis is driving a rocket ship right now and RB don't have the pace and Max knows it. I think that's part of the reason he does the shit he does. He's very experienced by now but he's still so young and immature. They had the advantage until Lewis put in the new engine in. Lewis is going pull away at AD. Unless RB can find some speed, this season is over. Been a hell of battle though.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
it changes the fact that max can take them both out now and be wc. Pretty big I’d say
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Senna was disqualified for that on prost
Schumacher was kicked out of the whole championship for doing that on villneuve

Given all the telemetry available and cameras it's going to be hard for max to engineer a situation where he gets away with it

My gut feel is that it's a fairly long run into the first corner and if Lewis is ahead and on the inside line at that point there isn't much max could do that wouldn't be really obvious

Will have to see who gets the best set up and start but of the track suits merc I can see Hamilton pole and Hamilton getting into turn one first... pulling out 3 seconds to defend the undercut and a fairly unspectacular precession to the end... but who knows could be as bonkers as Saudi for all I know
 
Red Bull will be quick at Abu Dhabi, the track changes bring it more toward Mercedes again and I do think they will be the car to beat however Max will be right there for sure.
 
Jippy said:
Can't believe I missed this. Well I can, given the time difference, but it's annoying.

One question- how come Max wasn't able to catch Lewis with his broken wing at the end? Were his tyres that bad?
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It’s been lost in amongst all the penalties and discussion around that, but yes. Im not sure how many laps those mediums did under a VSC, but it would have been a whole lot worse for Max if they were flat out for that time. Mercedes called it right putting Lewis on the hard tyres.
 
sun_tzu said:
Senna was disqualified for that on prost
Schumacher was kicked out of the whole championship for doing that on villneuve

Given all the telemetry available and cameras it's going to be hard for max to engineer a situation where he gets away with it

My gut feel is that it's a fairly long run into the first corner and if Lewis is ahead and on the inside line at that point there isn't much max could do that wouldn't be really obvious

Will have to see who gets the best set up and start but of the track suits merc I can see Hamilton pole and Hamilton getting into turn one first... pulling out 3 seconds to defend the undercut and a fairly unspectacular precession to the end... but who knows could be as bonkers as Saudi for all I know
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Yes I get that and know of the previous disqualifications. We’ll see but I have t got much trust in max and I dont think Hamilton would either.

I just hope both drivers finish and don’t suffer car trouble or punctures etc.
 
Dan_F said:
It’s been lost in amongst all the penalties and discussion around that, but yes. Im not sure how many laps those mediums did under a VSC, but it would have been a whole lot worse for Max if they were flat out for that time. Mercedes called it right putting Lewis on the hard tyres.
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Max did ask why he was not pitted, he was told not enough time, so had to carry on
 
mitChley said:
I was under the impression he wanted to pit for fastest lap and the extra point, but I stopped paying much attention the last 10 laps.
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He couldn’t because Ocon was 22 seconds behind. He made no attempt to do a fast lap, which probably tells you a lot about his confidence in the tyres.
 
Dan_F said:
It’s been lost in amongst all the penalties and discussion around that, but yes. Im not sure how many laps those mediums did under a VSC, but it would have been a whole lot worse for Max if they were flat out for that time. Mercedes called it right putting Lewis on the hard tyres.
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Cheers. Sounded like a nightmare for the strategy bosses trying to guess how many red flags and safety cars you'd get etc...Not often Merc has come out top on those battles this season.
 
RobinLFC said:
Them being level on points rather than Hamilton let's say 2 points behind doesn't change much, if anything at all though, does it? Unless you think they'll end up middle of the pack for points, Hamilton would've needed to win / be ahead of Verstappen regardless.

Just makes for a nicer narrative but changes nothing.
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pauldyson1uk said:
I do agree with you that if worthy of points then maybe worthy more then the 10 second pen, but on the other hand no pen for the last race is good.
Makes it a level playing field for last race, despite what is being said by one or 2 , I dont want Max to start the last race with a pen.
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They aren't really level if a double DNF suits the person who has recently initiated contact and potential contact.
Taking a minimum of 1 point of Max, would have pretty much guaranteed a race without the threat of a deliberate crash.
Edit :
Or at least a reckless approach to passing.
 
Jippy said:
Can't believe I missed this. Well I can, given the time difference, but it's annoying.

One question- how come Max wasn't able to catch Lewis with his broken wing at the end? Were his tyres that bad?
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Red Bull have just said in the message about them appealing Max's penalty (and asking for Hamilton to be penalized instead) that the collision with Lewis fecked up Max's rear tyres. Apparently he had to lift on the straights to keep them from failing completely.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Red Bull have just said in the message about them appealing Max's penalty (and asking for Hamilton to be penalized instead) that the collision with Lewis fecked up Max's rear tyres. Apparently he had to lift on the straights to keep them from failing completely.
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Where are they saying that?
 
Jippy said:
Where are they saying that?
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I read it on a big Dutch news website called Nu.nl. They're quoting this as their source but it's in German: https://www.bild.de/sport/motorspor...f-bestrafung-fuer-hamilton-78455242.bild.html

Edit: apparently Bild have interviewed Helmut Marko, full interview in German in the link above.

Summary:

- Red Bull feel they have been fecked over by the stewards.
- They're working on proving that Max wasn't at fault for the crash. They're trying to get him off at minimum, and want Hamilton penalized instead.
- They feel Hamilton misread the situation and caused the crash.
- The crash fecked up Max's read tyres, he had big cuts in them and he had to lift off on the straights to keep them from falling apart
- Marko hopes they don't crash in Abu Dhabi, doesn't want the championship to be decided that way
 
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ArjenIsM3 said:
I read it on a big Dutch news website called Nu.nl. They're quoting this as their source but it's in German: https://www.bild.de/sport/motorspor...f-bestrafung-fuer-hamilton-78455242.bild.html
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Couldn't see anything on RBR's twitter or anywhere. Would certainly be an eye-opener if the FIA reversed that penalty and handed it to Lewis:lol:

Again I didn't watch the race, but it seems crazy that Lewis wasn't informed that Max was being forced to slow down for him, real ineptitude in such a key part of such a key race.
 
Are there any odds on Max driving into Lewis this weekend?

It is so on the cards with the way he emphasised he was ahead due to races won.
 
Jippy said:
Couldn't see anything on RBR's twitter or anywhere. Would certainly be an eye-opener if the FIA reversed that penalty and handed it to Lewis:lol:

Again I didn't watch the race, but it seems crazy that Lewis wasn't informed that Max was being forced to slow down for him, real ineptitude in such a key part of such a key race.
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Edited my post above with a small summary powered by my limited German knowledge and Google Translate. You're probably better off reading the interview yourself though :lol:

Honestly the whole race was one big clusterfeck from all parties involved. It was entertaining but for all the wrong reasons. For me it got to the point where I just didn't understand what was happening anymore with all the red flags, VSCs, incidents, swapping positions, investigations, penalties, messed up communication, etc.
 
The Cat said:
Are there any odds on Max driving into Lewis this weekend?

It is so on the cards with the way he emphasised he was ahead due to races won.
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I could see it happening but I think it will go the same way most of the season has. Max will continue to defend/attack aggressively knowing that Lewis has more to lose. Lewis knows he has to beat Max so can't risk crashing and messing his race up. It's pretty much been the story of the season.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Edited my post above with a small summary powered by my limited German knowledge and Google Translate. You're probably better off reading the interview yourself though :lol:

Honestly the whole race was one big clusterfeck from all parties involved. It was entertaining but for all the wrong reasons. For me it got to the point where I just didn't understand what was happening anymore with all the red flags, VSCs, incidents, swapping positions, investigations, penalties, messed up communication, etc.
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The part where they were haggling where the FIA were haggling with Horner Wolff about whether Max should restart behind Lewis and Ocon sounded bizarre too- all the papers reported that as genuinely wtf is going on.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Red Bull have just said in the message about them appealing Max's penalty (and asking for Hamilton to be penalized instead) that the collision with Lewis fecked up Max's rear tyres. Apparently he had to lift on the straights to keep them from failing completely.
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:lol:

Good luck Red Bull. Clownshoes operation.
 
Jerch said:
I don't think Max was break testing him. Basically it was feck up by FIA which should tell chasing car first and then Max but they couldn't reach Merc because they were complaining about the situation on the radio. Max saw that DRS line is very close and slowed down even more and Lewis probably thought that he is giving him position on his own just to take it back imidiately to avoid a penalty and didn't went by. If Hamilton would know that Max was instructed to give up the position that crash never happens.
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Even if Max is told by the race director to give him the place back why should Lewis be willing to make the overtake right before the DRS line so that he will lose the place immediately being given it back.
 
Every weekend I think I will give Max another chance to change my mind on him but he continues to be a cnut.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Even if Max is told by the race director to give him the place back why should Lewis be willing to make the overtake right before the DRS line so that he will lose the place immediately being given it back.
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Not only that but no one ever gives a place back by braking on the line on a straight. It's lunacy and RB are clowns for thinking anyone with any kind of understanding buys it.
 
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