Was that with drs...
Drs is worth up to 15mph.... slipstream another couple of mph... 17mph would be the 27kph
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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Drs is worth up to 15mph.... slipstream another couple of mph... 17mph would be the 27kph
Yeah, he had DRS.
Teams also have the option of different engine modes, which they select for quali and have to keep all race thereafter. Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if Hamilton’s Merc engine was dialled up pretty high compared to everyone else’s, given its brand new & he‘s got 2 in his pool to use in 4 races.
Barring shenanigans, I think it’ll be a Bot-Ham-Ver podium. No idea which order though!
Great drive from Lewis. No matter how his engine was set-up and how much faster car he has some of those moves were incredible and to risk all of this in sprint race was a real sign of how competitive and hungry he is.
Yes I think Hamilton will have his engine turned up full for the rest ofthe season as he really need to be winning races ... if he blows an engine and gets a dnf then his title hunt is totally over but it over if he does not start taking chunks out of Verstapens lead anyway
The difference in pace today was unreal. Tomorrow will be interesting. It will also be interesting to see if Mercedes can keep this up till the last race without blowing the engine. If they can, I think Hamilton could win the lot.
He was 4 tenths quicker than Max yesterday. And with the new wing today didn't look any slower. Yes I would put it down to a fresh new unrestricted engine. But even then you need a ballsy driver to complete the overtakes. Brilliant drive and Lewis is on one this weekend.
I mean he knows it’s do or die this weekend especially now with the DQ and the engine penalty. I am a Lewis fan, but I would mind Max winning this year because he’s so good. But I’m hoping we see Lewis just back to the wall absolutely turn it on and show why he’s the best for the next 4 races.
Think they will need to get a new engine for bottas as well and hope that they can pull off a few 1-2 finishes
What damage though? I can't remember Lewis hitting anyone, or anything in qualifying, so where did the damage come from?
Horner's comments were interesting, he said on Sky they know what it is. Everything points to the rear wing and Max said he was checking how much it was flexing. Horner also said it isn't possible on horsepower alone to make that difference.
Whatever Merc have been doing since Turkey (it was reported in Mexico they had to reduce top speed due to the bumps damaging the rear wing and Red Bull also had some cracks) it is an absolute beast on the straight.
Fair play to them, they've consistently been the best and most innovative team in this era. Add one of the best drivers around it was almost unfair today!
Whatever Merc have been doing since Turkey (it was reported in Mexico they had to reduce top speed due to the bumps damaging the rear wing and Red Bull also had some cracks) it is an absolute beast on the straight.
Fair play to them, they've consistently been the best and most innovative team in this era. Add one of the best drivers around it was almost unfair today!
who cares he got dq'd?
Max and Horner did it.
What kind of answer is that? So no one knows what "damage" Toto is talking about then? He just talking out of his ass? If there were no damage to Lewis' car, why was the wing off by whatever millimetres they found? Because cheating maybe?
Okay?
There is genuinely zero evidence to suggest that there was any form of cheating involved. The stewards said so themselves and even Horner said that he didn’t think that it was intentional. Horner said that he didn’t know how much they were over by but it was unlikely that it has any impact on the pace so to suggest that a 0.2mm breach was intentional to cheat is pretty hilarious
Bit hard for him to say if they haven’t had the wing back to look into it yet.
Doesn’t sound like cheating as I thought it had passed pre qualifying (?) and apparently it’s not “millimetreS”, it’s 0.2 of a millimetre or 0.23% outside the 85mm allowed. Doubt that makes much of an impact.
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I am not saying I am convinced Mercedes cheated, I am simply asking if they claim the discrepancy comes from damage, please elaborate where that damage came from. If he can not, then his rationale for the wing being off by 0.2mm is invalid, no? FIA are very strict when applying the rules, all the teams knows this, and yet time and time again they get charged for something.
Of course, a bit harsh telling everyone to feck off as well then? If they haven't got the wing back to make sure it wasn't their error that caused the punishment? I have no idea if this is how it works, but just for fun - if the wing improved the top speed by 0.0023% more than anyone else on the track at 200mph that would be 0.75km/h. Which is definitely an impact, considering DRS gives what? 12-14 km/h? Potentially, almost a full km/h on top of everyone else. And if the wing was up by 0.2mm the entire race, that's not just short of 1 km/h gain in DRS zones, but the entire track.
This feels like talking to someone in a cult. Clearly made your mind up.… you want Wolff to elaborate without having the piece back to inspect? You can’t see the catch 22 in that?
And you think saying ‘feck them all’ is equivalent to having a driver put to the back of the grid for qualifying?
Then you use the 0.0023 and multiply by the top speeds to get 0.75kmh (ok), then round it up to 1kmh (why??) then say that’s 1kmh for “the entire track” … they don’t go round the entire circuit at 200mph
On top, the stewards have said they’re happy there was no intent.
Im fine with rules being rules and teams getting penalised… Mercedes have, Wolff (despite the decision) took it in good grace and explained a lot more than was being bandied around. One expletive when his driver had made 15 places in 20-odd laps is surely to be expected, almost… human?
Horner’s interview with Sky was quite good i thought. He said that it’s actually checked pretty regularly and despite Sky trying their best to get him to say that Mercedes did it intentionally he refused to say that and said that he had no reason to believe it was intentional.
0.2mm
The FIA are utterly pathetic.
The FIA are utterly pathetic.
This feels like talking to someone in a cult. Clearly made your mind up.… you want Wolff to elaborate without having the piece back to inspect? You can’t see the catch 22 in that?
And you think saying ‘feck them all’ is equivalent to having a driver put to the back of the grid for qualifying?
Then you use the 0.0023 and multiply by the top speeds to get 0.75kmh (ok), then round it up to 1kmh (why??) then say that’s 1kmh for “the entire track” … they don’t go round the entire circuit at 200mph
On top, the stewards have said they’re happy there was no intent.
Im fine with rules being rules and teams getting penalised… Mercedes have, Wolff (despite the decision) took it in good grace and explained a lot more than was being bandied around. One expletive when his driver had made 15 places in 20-odd laps is surely to be expected, almost… human?
A cult, actually. Interesting.
Fair enough, I made some errors in my calculations I did in a minute and a half, and prefaced as "for fun", but I'm a cult member apparantly.
I wanted to point out that the Hamilton fans on here seem to see no wrong no matter what Mercedes does, but bring some of it up and you're in a cult.
Wolff knows very well what he's doing when saying that publicly, and as I said, I don't necessarily believe Mercedes have cheated on purpose, but a mistake has been made somewhere and they've breached the rules, and had to pay for it. As for his outburst, what I tried arguing was that if it's too early to say anything because he hasn't had the piece to inspect, it's also too early to tell everyone to feck off, because they don't know what caused the error.
Just in case anyone is reading this and thinking that's quite a hefty advantage.
A 0.0023% improvement in speed at 200mph is actually 0.0046mph.
That's whilst they're going 200mph and whilst the wing is open, and if that 0.0023% extra gap actually fully translated to speed gain.
Horner is a snake.
0.0023% at 200mph would be an additional O.46km/h.
No it's not, it's far less than that. @LordNinio has the correct sums - It's 0.0046 mph. (@Barnslig has not only fudged the maths, he's converted it to km/h halfway through to make it sound like slightly more
)Ha! That'll teach me to do maths when half asleep.No it's not, it's far less than that. @LordNinio has the correct sums - It's 0.0046 mph. (@Barnslig has not only fudged the maths, he's converted it to km/h halfway through to make it sound like slightly more
Alright cool, I suck at maths. Again, I prefaced this by saying "I have no idea if this is how it works, but just for fun", it's not like I am portraying myself as some sort of expert?
Careful mate, some people in here might think you're in a cult... Oh wait, you're criticising Red Bull? Carry on.
Careful mate, some people in here might think you're in a cult... Oh wait, you're criticising Red Bull? Carry on.
Thanks for correcting my "math".
Maths you bloody yanks
Very harsh penalty. Anyway unless Lewis finishes in front of Max it's all over. Max now has a 21 point lead, short of a max dnf, it's pretty much done.0.2mm
The FIA are utterly pathetic.
What an absolute train wreck of a post in so, so many ways.
What in tarnation??!?!?!
The way people were talking I thought this was the last race of the season. Turns out there are three more so still all to race for even if Max wins today no?
I'm not really bothered about whether you made a mistake, we all do. I just wanted the correct figures in play, otherwise in 3 pages time, your incorrect figures become accepted as fact.
I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point with the 'math' comment, if you are I've no idea what it is
My thoughts are:
- Given the amount over the limit, I think it is pretty clear that this wasn’t intentional by Mercedes.
- Unfortunately though I don’t think the amount over matters for punishment. In such a technical sport where there are so many rules and regs which are needed for a whole host of things, you can’t create grey areas. It only complicates things going forward. So without a clear and explainable reason (which even then might not have sufficed), there had to be a penalty.
- I’d be interested though to know if the wing was measured pre-qualifying? And also interested to know if there really is a possibility of damage on the track. At such a small amount, a small crack? Loosening of a pivot? Hitting a curb hard causing something to dislodge ever so slightly? Are these real mechanical possibilities? I have no idea.
- At that amount, it obviously did not impact performance.
For me it’s either a) an error in engineering which means it was off from the start, or b) something caused it on track.
The question of whether it was checked pre qualifying would perhaps help to answer that question. I’m much more sympathetic to the anger of Mercedes if the breached reg was due to damage on the track
- Given the amount over the limit, I think it is pretty clear that this wasn’t intentional by Mercedes.
- Unfortunately though I don’t think the amount over matters for punishment. In such a technical sport where there are so many rules and regs which are needed for a whole host of things, you can’t create grey areas. It only complicates things going forward. So without a clear and explainable reason (which even then might not have sufficed), there had to be a penalty.
- I’d be interested though to know if the wing was measured pre-qualifying? And also interested to know if there really is a possibility of damage on the track. At such a small amount, a small crack? Loosening of a pivot? Hitting a curb hard causing something to dislodge ever so slightly? Are these real mechanical possibilities? I have no idea.
- At that amount, it obviously did not impact performance.
For me it’s either a) an error in engineering which means it was off from the start, or b) something caused it on track.
The question of whether it was checked pre qualifying would perhaps help to answer that question. I’m much more sympathetic to the anger of Mercedes if the breached reg was due to damage on the track
I think the point is depending on todays result, it could be in a situation where Max could finish second behind Hamilton at all the remaining races and still win the title. Anything can happen so it’s obviously not fully over until it is. But it is becoming increasingly improbable.