F1 2021 Season

[dinostar77]

What a fantastic race. Gutted for lando, but this experience will stand him in good stead. Remember lewis leading in china at McLaren in his first season or two and running out of tyre tread completely? He learnt from that lando will learn from this.

Congratulations to lewis to get win number 100. Ironically championship wise no rain and finishing 2nd would have been better for him but that's motor racing.

Great drive from Max, this years f1 championship winner in all but name. Its inevitable, hes driving superbly and the car is great. I am a fan of lewis, but even I think max deserves the title this year. Think he will nail the next 3 races with wins and then get over the line to win his maiden WDC. Will be deserved.

Ps. Bottas is utterly useless and massively locked in on a points finish.

 

[Adam-Utd]

One or two know it all’s by the looks too

tell me where i’m wrong id love to hear it.

Agreed, but he’s also on the track and knows better than anyone in the team what the track is like, Lewis said it’s “slippy as hell”. You have to remember that we don’t hear every radio message. But from what we heard, you’re right, they weren’t strong enough, which I’ve criticised the team for

of course he knew it was slippery but at that point half the track was damp and the rest was dry. let’s not forget he aced the wet conditions in qualifying, he’s clearly not scared of a little bit of damp conditions.

if it would have stayed like that he would win I have no doubts - unfortunately the full rain burst and it happened. 5 minutes later or earlier and it would have been very different.

 

[Buster15]

I've always watched every race for the past 15 years since I started because I enjoy it, but this season has been more dramatic and exciting than a season I have seen. Absolutely loving this season and the drama it's brought

Very much the same for me as well. Been a memorable season and still a way to go yet.

 

[Pscholes18]

Feel bad for Norris...he takes a bit of blame but it's his teams fault.

 

[Gringo]

How long did Lando stay out after Lewis ? It was more than 1 lap wasn't it ? Why not come in on the next lap. Or have I got it wrong.

 

[RoadTrip]

So so disappointed for Lando. He was bold to make the call to stay out, it’s such a hard decision too when you’re in 1st rather than 2nd or further back. I think, however, there is a really really fine line between being bold and being overbearing in F1. I think 80% of the blame must be with his team in the garage, they should have insisted. But Lando also should have been more receptive to what they’re saying rather than being so abruptly dismissive. At the end of the day he doesn’t have the data - which is why his team are mostly at fault and should have insisted. However, it’s much easier for the team to insist when you get the response on the radio like Hamilton’s rather than Lando’s. They still should have but it just heightens the emotions when they all should have stayed calm and relayed the critical information which in the end got lost.

Other than that, the race was magnificent. Exciting, overtakes, dynamic strategies and loads of twists and turns. Hamilton a good race despite a poor start. Mercedes with good pit stops and strategy in the end. Happy for his 100th win, a shame it had to come at the expense of Lando in this way.

The biggest winner today was Max. To come second despite starting at the back, with the engine penalty already taken, and with favourable tracks to the RB coming up, really puts him in a strong position even if he goes to bed 2Nd in the championship tonight. The gods appear on his side, with the rain playing a huge role for him being in second. But you make your own luck and he’s been consistent and was there to take the chance so you have to respect that.

 

[mitChley]

How long did Lando stay out after Lewis ? It was more than 1 lap wasn't it ? Why not come in on the next lap. Or have I got it wrong.

By that point the gap was 15 seconds ish, he would have come out behind him anyway

 

[The Hilton]

yet again, he ignored it as he was happy with the situation. they didn’t tell him heavier rain was coming.

hamilton also ignored it as he was happy with the situation. the team then told him heavier rain was coming so he boxed.

can you see the small difference? this isn’t on the drivers.

Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.

 

[dinostar77]

Lando and McClaren made a call, it was wrong on this occasion. However it could have been the right call in other circumstances. Lando could have gone on for the win. Everyone would be criticising Mercedes for throwing away Lewis chance to overtake Norris on the track, by putting inters on lewis car.

Max and RB for example, might have got the call wrong for inters and Max could have found himself out of the points. Its motor racing, it happens. You roll the dice and make a call.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Mercedes more used to being in this position than Mclaren. In recent years at least!

Feel for Lando. So unlucky! Would've loved him to win. Great achievement for Hamilton though.

As an aside, can the Russians control the weather to make exciting races?

 

[Red Shorts]

Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.

No you are completely right; it's not like Mercedes had better weathermen giving them the data that McLaren did not. The rain was always predicted to come, and Sochi is known to have heavy downpours at a moment's notice, leaving cars on non-inters/wets basically ice skating on a lap. Even with so few laps to go, you leave yourself in no mans land once the rain hits hard.

Lando didnt deserve to lose a podium, but at the same time should have listened to his team who have all the data there. Really gutted for the lad as I love his driving style and think hes a top guy in general.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Multiple other drivers made the intermediates call themselves, Sainz did and it won him 3rd, so the drivers saying no made a mistake.

It's an understandable one, but both Lando and his team are to blame in my book. I'm happy to agree to disagree though.

other drivers weren’t in for the chance of winning the race. a lot easier to take less risks when you have nothing riding on it.

 

[United Hobbit]

I'm surprised McLaren didn't insist he come in, as had he done so he'd have got a minimum of second provided no errors at the pit stop, as he and Lewis were so far ahead.

I think what didn't help his cause was he was in amongst the back markers so getting caught up with them, if he'd had a clear track he could have eased off a bit, or come in the lap after Lewis for wet tyres.

I think as well, he got a bit too over excited at the prospect of his first win (understandably) I think had he already won a couple of races he would have come in however this time he was so close to that elusive first win and is young and got caught up in the moment. This is perhaps where his team needed to insist he come in and secure his podium place at least.

Lewis also had a lot more to lose as he's competing for the title, where potentially every point could count. I think if he hadn't been doing so he would have stayed out.

Really hope Norris gets his first win soon.

As others have said this has been a fantastic season, it's so much more interesting without Hamilton and sometimes Bottas just disappearing off into the distance, so far ahead they have a free pit stop with the result confirmed as early as qualifying.

I thought Max would be a future world champion when he won his first race you could see he was a class above. I'm not particularly keen on either him or Lewis but am really enjoying their title fight, it's nice to see McLaren taking a step forward and pushing towards challenging Red Bull and Mercedes.

I hope it goes down to the last race. All too often recently we've had Lewis win the title about 5 races before the end of the season so the last races feel like box ticking.

Also hope next season the new regulations don't result in one team dominating, I was disappointed when they were pushed back to next year but now I'm enjoying it the most I have for a long time. My partner was never interested in it, until we watched drive to survive and he started watching last year when it was rather dull, this year he's really into it as well.

I think Hamilton will win the title, I think his having been in this position before and his extra maturity will be what gets him over the line.

Lewis, while he also has that experience and the team insist

 

[The Hilton]

other drivers weren’t in for the chance of winning the race. a lot easier to take less risks when you have nothing riding on it.

You're right about that, but that doesn't stop it from being the wrong call.

As I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Zlaatan]

I'm surprised McLaren didn't insist he come in, as had he done so he'd have got a minimum of second provided no errors at the pit stop, as he and Lewis were so far ahead.

I think what didn't help his cause was he was in amongst the back markers so getting caught up with them, if he'd had a clear track he could have eased off a bit, or come in the lap after Lewis for wet tyres.

I think as well, he got a bit too over excited at the prospect of his first win (understandably) I think had he already won a couple of races he would have come in however this time he was so close to that elusive first win and is young and got caught up in the moment. This is perhaps where his team needed to insist he come in and secure his podium place at least.

Lewis also had a lot more to lose as he's competing for the title, where potentially every point could count. I think if he hadn't been doing so he would have stayed out.

Really hope Norris gets his first win soon.

As others have said this has been a fantastic season, it's so much more interesting without Hamilton and sometimes Bottas just disappearing off into the distance, so far ahead they have a free pit stop with the result confirmed as early as qualifying.

I thought Max would be a future world champion when he won his first race you could see he was a class above. I'm not particularly keen on either him or Lewis but am really enjoying their title fight, it's nice to see McLaren taking a step forward and pushing towards challenging Red Bull and Mercedes.

I hope it goes down to the last race. All too often recently we've had Lewis win the title about 5 races before the end of the season so the last races feel like box ticking.

Also hope next season the new regulations don't result in one team dominating, I was disappointed when they were pushed back to next year but now I'm enjoying it the most I have for a long time. My partner was never interested in it, until we watched drive to survive and he started watching last year when it was rather dull, this year he's really into it as well.

I think Hamilton will win the title, I think his having been in this position before and his extra maturity will be what gets him over the line.

Lewis, while he also has that experience and the team insist

I've taken a bit of a breather from this thread and not posted as much lately and based on this post I think I'll keep it like that and just let you speak for me from now on because I agree with every single thing you just said. (I'm a bit worried you had a stroke midway through your last sentence though which might put a fork in these plans, but I'm hoping you're well.)

 

[United Hobbit]

I've taken a bit of a breather from this thread and not posted as much lately and based on this post I think I'll keep it like that and just let you speak for me from now on because I agree with every single thing you just said. (I'm a bit worried you had a stroke midway through your last sentence though which might put a fork in these plans, but I'm hoping you're well.)

Thank you for this

Fortunately no stroke just very tired of the daily grind!

I think I must have originally been halfway through writing the post, then got distracted then went back to it but started typing in the middle of what I'd already started

Wouldn't it be great if the title want down to the last lap of the last race.

Usually I love wet races (bar when they cancel them!) this is the one time I wanted it to hold off for Norris! However I still think Hamilton would have got him anyway.

 

[Adam-Utd]

You're right about that, but that doesn't stop it from being the wrong call.

As I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

obviously it was the wrong call in the end - but not in that moment of time.

You can’t make decisions based on hindsight and only on the information/evidence.

3 laps left with a slightly greasy track, why would you risk putting on inter tyres that would burn up within a lap? 25 seconds for a pit stop and you’d never catch hamilton.

It just so happens that the rain suddenly got a lot heavier 1 lap later. if it hang on for 3 more minutes it’s a well calculated decision.

everybody can sit here after looking smug saying “wrong decision, he bottled it” when it’s never that cut and dry.

Hamilton himself says he didn’t want to pit either but the team made it clear worse was coming. unfortunately mclaren didn’t. they probably hoped the rain would hang on.

 

[The Hilton]

obviously it was the wrong call in the end - but not in that moment of time.

You can’t make decisions based on hindsight and only on the information/evidence.

3 laps left with a slightly greasy track, why would you risk putting on inter tyres that would burn up within a lap? 25 seconds for a pit stop and you’d never catch hamilton.

It just so happens that the rain suddenly got a lot heavier 1 lap later. if it hang on for 3 more minutes it’s a well calculated decision.

everybody can sit here after looking smug saying “wrong decision, he bottled it” when it’s never that cut and dry.

Hamilton himself says he didn’t want to pit either but the team made it clear worse was coming. unfortunately mclaren didn’t. they probably hoped the rain would hang on.

Oh my god.

 

[vangagal]

Oh my god.

Its keep coming, isnt it?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Oh my god.

Nothing proper to reply with then? I love people like you that can't even back your own opinions up

You should get yourself a job of in F1 if everything is so obvious too you

 

[slyadams]

All the drama letting people forget how useless Bottas was again as a team mate. At the start of the season the big benfit Bottas had was that he'd probably be a bertter wing man than a young Russell. Well I think that's put to bed now, I'm convinced Russell would be able to make Max's life a lot harder when he has to that Bottas does. Should have lost his seat this year, and Merc probably should have swapped them already.

 

[The Hilton]

Nothing proper to reply with then? I love people like you that can't even back your own opinions up

You should get yourself a job of in F1 if everything is so obvious too you

My reply is the same as it has been for 3 replies now, agree to disagree. I was just exasperated with your childish desperation to have the last word (and it being an essay each time).

We don't agree on this one, that's OK, reckon you can leave it at that or should I expect another monologue about how weather forecasting doesn't exist?

 

[Adam-Utd]

My reply is the same as it has been for 3 replies now, agree to disagree. I was just exasperated with your childish desperation to have the last word (and it being an essay each time).

We don't agree on this one, that's OK, reckon you can leave it at that or should I expect another monologue about how weather forecasting doesn't exist?

I've already agreed it was obviously the wrong decision as we've seen the aftermath - but in that moment of time it wasn't an easy call either way.

The team made the wrong call as the rain got heavier - but on another day it might not have and they'd have won with a giant margin. It's just how luck plays out.

My point was everybody knew the rain was coming, but nobody knew how heavy it was getting. The commentary team even said the rain was stopping about 1 minute earlier - that's how changeable it was.

Anyway it's my last reply on the subject.

 

[The Hilton]

I've already agreed it was obviously the wrong decision as we've seen the aftermath - but in that moment of time it wasn't an easy call either way.

The team made the wrong call as the rain got heavier - but on another day it might not have and they'd have won with a giant margin. It's just how luck plays out.

My point was everybody knew the rain was coming, but nobody knew how heavy it was getting. The commentary team even said the rain was stopping about 1 minute earlier - that's how changeable it was.

Anyway it's my last reply on the subject.

Thank god for that

 

[WeePat]

This year has really made me fall in love with F1 again. Other than the farce of Spa, it’s been excellent

Same.

Yesterday was as thrilling as I'd seen in a while. The Hamilton-Merc/Verstappen-RB drama etc, it's been exciting.

Gutted for Lando on an individual level.

 

[Doracle]

What a fantastic race. Gutted for lando, but this experience will stand him in good stead. Remember lewis leading in china at McLaren in his first season or two and running out of tyre tread completely? He learnt from that lando will learn from this.

Congratulations to lewis to get win number 100. Ironically championship wise no rain and finishing 2nd would have been better for him but that's motor racing.

Great drive from Max, this years f1 championship winner in all but name. Its inevitable, hes driving superbly and the car is great. I am a fan of lewis, but even I think max deserves the title this year. Think he will nail the next 3 races with wins and then get over the line to win his maiden WDC. Will be deserved.

Ps. Bottas is utterly useless and massively locked in on a points finish.

Have to say, I thought this was probably Max’s worse race this season. He overused his hard tyres early on and then was unable to get anything out of the mediums because he was having to desperately conserve his tyres. I didn’t see how far behind LeClerc was when it started raining but my impression was that Max was probably going to finish 8th but for the rain.

That said, he’s had two poor races in a row given his over aggression in Monza, and it hasn’t really cost him. He should win the title relatively comfortably from here with the races coming up.

 

[The Hilton]

Have to say, I thought this was probably Max’s worse race this season. He overused his hard tyres early on and then was unable to get anything out of the mediums because he was having to desperately conserve his tyres. I didn’t see how far behind LeClerc was when it started raining but my impression was that Max was probably going to finish 8th but for the rain.

That said, he’s had two poor races in a row given his over aggression in Monza, and it hasn’t really cost him. He should win the title relatively comfortably from here with the races coming up.

Yeah that was my take too - looking at the result makes it seem like a champion's drive but he was bailed out big time by the rain.

Having said that, one of his best drives of the season for me (Baku) ended up with a tyre explosion, so maybe it's balanced out.

It's close to a foregone conclusion now, Hamilton needed to open up a decent lead over Verstappen yesterday to have any chance, with the races coming up suiting what's already the superior car, Max will be cruising without some serious craziness.

 

[redshaw]

Yes, Max was 3-4 seconds behind Alonso after Alonso overtook him. Was quite surprising to see him going backwards in 7th on the medium tyre. Should've been a bigger hit on points for him.

I don't think Bottas wanted to be a such a direct influence on the title for Lewis at the back of grid holding up Max so simply left the door open.

 

[ChaddyP]

Quick question. Will Lewis take a 4th engine at any point this season. Or is he expected to use only 3.

 

[Balljy]

Quick question. Will Lewis take a 4th engine at any point this season. Or is he expected to use only 3.

I think they're undecided and are doing reliability tests. Wolff has said that if they do take one they will try and time it for a session where there's a mistake or accident causing Hamilton to start lower down the grid.

 

[ChaddyP]

I think they're undecided and are doing reliability tests. Wolff has said that if they do take one they will try and time it for a session where there's a mistake or accident causing Hamilton to start lower down the grid.

Ahh makes sense. Thanks

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Yes, Max was 3-4 seconds behind Alonso after Alonso overtook him. Was quite surprising to see him going backwards in 7th on the medium tyre. Should've been a bigger hit on points for him.

I don't think Bottas wanted to be a such a direct influence on the title for Lewis at the back of grid holding up Max so simply left the door open.

To be fair I think most were faster on the hard tyre than they were on the medium tyre strangely enough but I could be wrong. Did seem that way to me. Max obviously had to switch to the mediums having started on the hards but I think Red Bull made the wrong call by bringing him in relatively early. I get that his tyres were wearing down quicker than others because he was constantly on someone's arse and overtaking people and that's no good for your tyres but to me it didn't seem like the hards he was on had completely gone when he went in. I mean there were people running the medium tyre who stopped later than Max. It looked as if Red Bull reacted to Hamilton pitting but I think they'd have been better off staying out on the hard tyre a bit longer.

 

[Adam-Utd]

To be fair I think most were faster on the hard tyre than they were on the medium tyre strangely enough but I could be wrong. Did seem that way to me. Max obviously had to switch to the mediums having started on the hards but I think Red Bull made the wrong call by bringing him in relatively early. I get that his tyres were wearing down quicker than others because he was constantly on someone's arse and overtaking people and that's no good for your tyres but to me it didn't seem like the hards he was on had completely gone when he went in. I mean there were people running the medium tyre who stopped later than Max. It looked as if Red Bull reacted to Hamilton pitting but I think they'd have been better off staying out on the hard tyre a bit longer.

A lot of the tyres were graining up early due to the green track. I guess they thought they tyres were ruined - but they actually started to clean up if you stuck with it. I think they were expecting a 2 stop race at this point but the track suddenly grew quicker quite fast.

 

[Scarecrow]

To be fair I think most were faster on the hard tyre than they were on the medium tyre strangely enough but I could be wrong. Did seem that way to me. Max obviously had to switch to the mediums having started on the hards but I think Red Bull made the wrong call by bringing him in relatively early. I get that his tyres were wearing down quicker than others because he was constantly on someone's arse and overtaking people and that's no good for your tyres but to me it didn't seem like the hards he was on had completely gone when he went in. I mean there were people running the medium tyre who stopped later than Max. It looked as if Red Bull reacted to Hamilton pitting but I think they'd have been better off staying out on the hard tyre a bit longer.

He did say “I can’t turn the car” just before he pitted. Although that doesn’t necessarily mean much coming from him or Lewis.

 

[Zarlak]

You're right about that, but that doesn't stop it from being the wrong call.

As I said, I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Whether the call is wrong or not is not decided by the end result, you can't make a call based on what happens in the future that's unknown to you, that's ludicrous. It's decided by the information you have at the time because that's what you use to make the call. At the time, in the current conditions staying out was the correct call because the current tires were the better option in 2 of the 3 sectors and the inters would have been destroyed Lando wasn't struggling, and felt he could continue. Had McLaren known the rain was going to get worse then it would have been the wrong call but it seems like they didn't. If they came in for inters thinking conditions were staying the same, that would have been the wrong call. It only went south when the weather got worse, which Lando wasn't informed about. Had he known that, he'd have used that information to make a different call.

What they need to be asking themselves, is how they didn't know it was going to get worse when Mercedes did. That was the point that Lewis decided to change his opinion on the matter. But fundamentally, calls are correct or not based on the information you had at the time, not whatever happens afterwards. The call and the result are two completely separate things.

 

[RoadTrip]

Whether the call is wrong or not is not decided by the end result, you can't make a call based on what happens in the future that's unknown to you, that's ludicrous. It's decided by the information you have at the time because that's what you use to make the call. At the time, in the current conditions staying out was the correct call because the current tires were the better option in 2 of the 3 sectors and the inters would have been destroyed Lando wasn't struggling, and felt he could continue. Had McLaren known the rain was going to get worse then it would have been the wrong call but it seems like they didn't. If they came in for inters thinking conditions were staying the same, that would have been the wrong call. It only went south when the weather got worse, which Lando wasn't informed about. Had he known that, he'd have used that information to make a different call.

What they need to be asking themselves, is how they didn't know it was going to get worse when Mercedes did. That was the point that Lewis decided to change his opinion on the matter. But fundamentally, calls are correct or not based on the information you had at the time, not whatever happens afterwards.

Is there anything which suggests they didn’t know it was getting worse? I mean, I would assume the weather radar information for all teams would come from the same source. What i suspect is they had exactly the same information as Mercedes, but as with all weather forecasts they had hoped it wasn’t 100% accurate and would hold off a bit longer.

People are overthinking something that’s probably very very simple.

 

[Zarlak]

Is there anything which suggests they didn’t know it was getting worse? I mean, I would assume the weather radar information for all teams would come from the same source.

So would I, but they neglected to tell Lando on the radio so he can't be held responsible for not being psychic. He was performing completely fine when they asked him if he wanted to change and he rightly said no, he had 3 laps to go and was coping completely fine. Then it got worse and all of a sudden his car couldn't cope. If he knew that, he'd have made a different call.

 

[RoadTrip]

So would I, but they neglected to tell Lando on the radio so he can't be held responsible for not being psychic. He was performing completely fine when they asked him if he wanted to change and he rightly said no, he had 3 laps to go and was coping completely fine. Then it got worse and all of a sudden his car couldn't cope. If he knew that, he'd have made a different call.

I agree that it’s on the team who should have / could have interpreted the forecast differently and been more insistent on Lando. However, Lando takes some fault because he categorically told the team he did not want to come him. He didn’t remain calm, instead he barked back to the team on the radio. That’s Lando’s learning from this experience, might be first, might be 3 laps to go, but gotta stay calm in that situation to absorb the facts and make decisions based off of them. I can fully understand it mind. So close to his first win.

 

[Zarlak]

I agree that it’s on the team who should have / could have interpreted the forecast differently and been more insistent on Lando. However, Lando takes some fault because he categorically told the team he did not want to come him. He didn’t remain calm, instead he barked back to the team on the radio. That’s Lando’s learning from this experience, might be first, might be 3 laps to go, but gotta stay calm in that situation to absorb the facts and make decisions based off of them. I can fully understand it mind. So close to his first win.

That's all true, but my point is it doesn't change if the call is right or wrong. The info he had showed that his current tyres were clearly the right choice. Had he had different info, he'd have known he was wrong and adjusted accordingly. The fact that he was stressed out, on the precipice of his first win, under pressure from Lewis and barked at his team to give him some quiet so he could concentrate is definitely his issue to fix, which will come with experience and maturity, but it also doesn't relate to the call he made which was correct with the info he had. It's a completely separate issue. When he barked at his team his team should have come back with 'Lando the rain is going to get worse very quickly'. We hear drivers snap at their engineers all the time, Max did it just before he hit Lewis the other week, Kimi does it on a weekly basis. We've seen instances at Mercedes where James or Toto come on the radio, McLaren should have done the same and insisted that the reason they were asking is because it was going to get a lot worse. Otherwise from Lando's perspective they're badgering him over the same thing for no reason without context while he's trying to hold off a 7 time world champion because the tyres were clearly ok at that moment in time.

 

[RoadTrip]

That's all true, but my point is it doesn't change if the call is right or wrong. The info he had showed that his current tyres were clearly the right choice. Had he had different info, he'd have known he was wrong and adjusted accordingly. The fact that he was stressed out, on the precipice of his first win, under pressure from Lewis and barked at his team to give him some quiet so he could concentrate is definitely his issue to fix, which will come with experience and maturity, but it also doesn't relate to the call he made which was correct with the info he had. It's a completely separate issue. When he barked at his team his team should have come back with 'Lando the rain is going to get worse very quickly'. We hear drivers snap at their engineers all the time, Max did it just before he hit Lewis the other week. We've seen instances at Mercedes where James or Toto come on the radio, McLaren should have done the same and insisted that the reason they were asking is because it was going to get a lot worse. Otherwise to Lando they're badgering him over the same thing for no reason because the tyres were clearly ok at that moment in time.

This is where I think you’re wrong. It’s not a separate issue, because the one is part of the reason why he didn’t have all of the information. You say correct decision based on the information he had - what you’re missing in my view is that he had a role in why he did NOT have all of the relevant information. Therefore saying he made the right call with the information he had is largely irrelevant.