European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .
redshaw said:
Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.
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Football is so closely tied to the British national identity.

The Queen, Football, tea. In that order.

Football is important in Spain, but not to the point where its identity, and moreover Spain has had a lot of economic challenges the past decade that may substract a lot of fans from attending matches in droves. La Liga has also become a less interesting product with the decline of Barcelona and the abdication of CR7 and Messi. There are no guiding stars currently that will bring all the attention back to La Liga.
 
redshaw said:
Is it getting bad in Spain?

Barcelona had just 37k at the Nou Camp recently. Sure they've slipped down a bit but they've had a huge amount of success in recent times, United haven't won a major trophy since 2013, been in the lower half of the league and finished out the top 4 half the time yet still fill OT. Every time I catch a bit of a La Liga match the stadiums are half empty.
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That's down to COVID restrictions. But to answer the question: it's not getting bad, it *is* bad for everyone - except real madrid, that is. Real Madrid are in better financial health than anybody not owned by an oil state funnily enough...
 
I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.
 
Super League might be a good idea, if implemented right. There's no future in football with state owned clubs.
 
Sviken said:
Super League might be a good idea, if implemented right. There's no future in football with state owned clubs.
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You really think state owned clubs are the biggest problem for future of football? That may be the case for just a handfull of elite clubs, which Manchester United luckily belongs to.

For rest of us from smaller countries, football was killed the day UEFA decided to allow certain countries to have far more clubs than others in their competitions. Final nail was laid in coffin with Bosman ruling.

Look at how glorious Ajax from 90s was "killed".

https://www.besoccer.com/new/twenty...e-bosman-ruling-which-changed-football-840140

To most of us fans around the Europe, football is long dead already. Sarajevo is my local club which I like more than United. Back in 1967/1968 season, when two clubs met, United did win but had to negotiate hell of a ride. If we were to play right now, and if United really pushed hard, they could score 30 goals over two games if they wanted to.

State owned clubs may destroy the way football is run now, but it doesn't mean things are good at the moment. Reasons for the states being allowed to enter the market and to own clubs is the same reason that lead football to the current state.

And another thing. You really think that Superleague led by Perez and Agnelli will stop Salman from joining if he wants to? Of course they will welcome him and his money with open arms. Why are they forming Superleague other than to gain money?
 
Bosnian_fan said:
For rest of us from smaller countries, football was killed the day UEFA decided to allow certain countries to have far more clubs than others in their competitions. Final nail was laid in coffin with Bosman ruling.
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Bosman did change everything but its hard to argue it wasn't the right change. Can anyone really justify a system where a player could be out of contract and basically held hostage by their club when they don't want to be there?
 
Nanook said:
I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.
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Bayern and the German teams will never be on board with the Super League because of the fan ownership model, and the fan culture over there seems like they would always reject it anyway. A Super League with La Liga and Serie A? Perez and Agnelli are more than welcome to that. Perez just keeps on revealing that all he cares about is Madrid having the biggest transfer dick. People are idiots if they think Perez actually cares about the future of football or indeed anything beyond Madrid.
 
Cloud7 said:
Bayern and the German teams will never be on board with the Super League because of the fan ownership model, and the fan culture over there seems like they would always reject it anyway. A Super League with La Liga and Serie A? Perez and Agnelli are more than welcome to that. Perez just keeps on revealing that all he cares about is Madrid having the biggest transfer dick. People are idiots if they think Perez actually cares about the future of football or indeed anything beyond Madrid.
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Bayern would join if it actually went ahead.
 
If people side with cnut like Perez then football is already doomed, like he has best interest for football, laughable. His problem is power dynamic shift, he probabaly thinks shit wont get any better for RM. State owned clubs are just being used as excuse to push agenda, remove them and he would trash talk PL TV money deals etc.
 
I could be imagining this, but several years ago weren't Bayern reportedly one of the main cheerleaders for a Super League, before they received such a negative backlash from their own fans and quickly backed down? I think that may have been around 2016. I'm sure there were protests from their fans at the time.

I think they and Real Madrid were the main cheerleaders for the expanded Club World Cup that was proposed a few years ago, but again their fans were furious at their hierarchy for that.
 
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giorno said:
That's down to COVID restrictions. But to answer the question: it's not getting bad, it *is* bad for everyone - except real madrid, that is. Real Madrid are in better financial health than anybody not owned by an oil state funnily enough...
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What is the capacity limit at the Nou Camp currently?
 
Nanook said:
I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.
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Can't help but think that Bayerns monopoly and stranglehold over Bundesliga is killing the product.
 
Kentonio said:
Bosman did change everything but its hard to argue it wasn't the right change. Can anyone really justify a system where a player could be out of contract and basically held hostage by their club when they don't want to be there?
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Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
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I actually agree completely about how shitty the concentration of power is in football. I'd be totally behind any changes that slowed down the transfer drain to the top clubs and gave teams a chance to benefit from the players they develop. Perhaps limiting the number of transfers might help, although I suspect the big clubs will still find a way to game the system.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
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This is a really good post. You're right, UEFA are reaping what they have sowed and the difference for a European 'small club' now between an old skool 'legacy' club vs. a oil run club is pretty much immaterial.

That said, there is a little light on the horizon for the smaller clubs in England and that is the growth of the PL TV overseas deals. This are starting to show the same (and even exceeding) the growth the PL domestic deals showed between 1992-2015. If this continues to move in that fashion and the PL can keep it's domestic TV deal's broadly in line with inflation then it will essentially become the de facto Super League owing to the distribution model (although this has slightly been moved in the favour of the big clubs as the made a change to the revenues from overseas a couple of years' ago.)

So, yes, you're right about the smaller teams from Europe being screwed, but the top 25-30 teams in England (owing to parachute money) are potentially set.

For me, the CL changed the face of European football to make it an essential cartel between the legacy clubs. However, the PL has grown so popular in the meantime that this has outmenovered the legacy clubs (particularly those aboard.)

For me, the PL deals where the real reason for the Super League as Spanish and Italian clubs see the writing on the wall, whilst the US owed PL clubs see the issue of the PL distribution model (if overseas revenues continue to increase) on their position over the medium to long term.
 
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R'hllor said:
If people side with cnut like Perez then football is already doomed, like he has best interest for football, laughable. His problem is power dynamic shift, he probabaly thinks shit wont get any better for RM. State owned clubs are just being used as excuse to push agenda, remove them and he would trash talk PL TV money deals etc.
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I really don't understand how people can't see this. Perez wants Real to be top dogs. He doesn't want parity with the other big clubs. Even if the super league were to come to fruition he would still find a way for Real to get more money from it than the other clubs.
 
Cloud7 said:
I really don't understand how people can't see this. Perez wants Real to be top dogs. He doesn't want parity with the other big clubs. Even if the super league were to come to fruition he would still find a way for Real to get more money from it than the other clubs.
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I think thats what happened in the original proposals, Real Madrid had the most money in the deal, and he was the chairman of the super league.
 
feck it, i'm on board. Can't be any less corrupt than what we have now right?
 
You see. Sooner or later, nobody can escape it

FlorenThanos is inevitable
 
Now that they have agreed to re-draw, the ESL is a scummy move by evil American overlords once again and anyone that liked it is a bad bad man.
 
Another competition to end this mess that is UEFA or at least give them enough reason to revise and update their system wouldn't be a bad thing that's for sure.
 
pascell said:
Can't help but think that Bayerns monopoly and stranglehold over Bundesliga is killing the product.
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They aren't killing the product domestically, german stadiums are always packing and energetic, plus the average attendance is even a bit higher than in PL, they are killing it mostly for non-german watchers.
Plus the language doesn't help, selling something in german instead of english it's always gonna be harder.The reason for temporary success that La Liga had abroad(despiste the spanish language) was due to Messi vs Cristiano, now they are losing that.

It will always be an advantage to sell something based/related to the english language abroad, nobody in Asia learns spanish,german or italian as a second language (unless you want to work as a translator).
If i want to sell something abroad to make it trendy and marketable, it has to be in english, it can't be in german,russian or spanish.
 
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