EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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berbatrick said:
:lol: true

My (Indian) parents just visited my dad's old friends in Bradford. These friends were very happy with the Asian community, whose numbers and appearance shocked my parents - half the people on the streets had either the skullcap+beard combo or the full burqa. We live not far from a Muslim area in Mumbai and my mom said the number of beards/burqas in Bradford matched those at home.

On the other hand, most of my dad's friends were ranting about East Europeans (who were simultaneously stealing jobs and living off welfare).
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I'm originally from Bradford, they call it Bradistan for a reason :D

I grew up in that diversity so to me it was never an issue but I see more and more that it's become very segregated and there's that 'White flight' from areas as they become the minority.

I don't really know what you can do about that to be honest but in the backdrop of a city struggling economically people lazily lash out as the change becomes symbolic
 
Paul the Wolf said:
So the English people get the hospital bed and the school place but despite the "foreigners" contributing the same as the English people they are not entitled , or are you also advocating the reduction of the English population as well because there are too many people and not enough hospital beds and school places. Where do these hospital beds and school places come from, by people paying taxes whether they be English or not. Your argument makes no sense.
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what the feck are you smoking? You are the biggest troll in this thread well done you take the gold medal for wumming.
 
sun_tzu said:
even then we will never know if we were right - because we cant say for certain what would happen the other way.
Just ask yourself if you want to be on the same side of the (well any) debate as Katie Hopkins... if that does not make your mind up then seek help.
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That is possibly the best argument yet.
 
I've been taking an interest in this the past few days as it looks you bunch of inbred insular island mongrel-men might actually vote 'no'.

I noticed that it seems the 'no' movement is primarily Pathos driven, whilst the 'yes' movement is driven by rationalist concerns.

Why no pathos for the 'yes' vote? What about the fecking future of mankind, Tommy? We've spent 70 years now tearing down walls, bringing people together, evolving human consciousness. And now when the human spirit is getting tested, you want to crawl back in your shell, "we wuz alright being tribal, guv", with reckless abandon for the consequences this could have for the global spirit of looking beyond borders and antiquated tribal markings. Now, you want to go hold hands with Trump, start building walls (and no, we won't pay for it. As Obama remarked, you go "to the back of the trade queue") and mind your own business? If the spirit of global humanity cracks apart at a time when it is needed more than ever, we will look to this point and say it all started when the UK took its ball and went home to suck its own thumb.

PS. Scotland, Wales - If Brexit happens, this would be an excellent opportunity to stick it to your imperialist subjugators and come join the circle. Always welcome.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Glad to know that the Uk will be in safe hands, what could possibly go wrong?
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The UK just love following the US footsteps so Boris might well be the UK answer to George W.

Hey if the US vote Trump in and the UK vote Boris in then the two nations would be lead by two near twins
 
712 said:
Inbred and mongrels. Racist nonsense.
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The 'inbreds and mongrels' comment was meant to highlight that England is not a nation of pure-born English people - like most countries' populations, it's a mix of people with their ancestral roots being elsewhere...a point which exposes the idiocy of the 'them immigrunts' rhetoric.
 
SteveJ said:
The 'inbreds and mongrels' comment was meant to highlight that England is not a nation of pure-born English people - like most countries' populations, it's a mix of people with their ancestral roots being elsewhere...a point which exposes the idiocy of the 'them immigrunts' rhetoric.
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Ah, inbreds or mongrels, I see. I thought it meant both at the same time, which would be a bit silly.
But wait, what's this 'immigrunts'? I'm guessing this is meant to prove the inbreds can't talk proper, or maybe the mongrels, who knows.
 
Got a letter in my door this morning from Leo varadkarm(Irish TD) urging people who are eligible to vote, to vote remain.

He made several points but the most pertinent one to me, being from NI is that the EU has been a stabilising factor in the peace process with lots of investment in cross border projects. €3bn is to be invested between now and 2020, to,improve loads of things including upgrading the Belfast-Dublin rail link.
 
SteveJ said:
The 'inbreds and mongrels' comment was meant to highlight that England is not a nation of pure-born English people - like most countries' populations, it's a mix of people with their ancestral roots being elsewhere...a point which exposes the idiocy of the 'them immigrunts' rhetoric.
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Indeed. Hell, England is named after a tribe from Northern Germany and has a royal family formerly known as the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

About like @devilish UK following the US post with Trump's illogical anti-immigrant rhetoric.
 
SteveJ said:
The 'inbreds and mongrels' comment was meant to highlight that England is not a nation of pure-born English people - like most countries' populations, it's a mix of people with their ancestral roots being elsewhere...a point which exposes the idiocy of the 'them immigrunts' rhetoric.
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Only to those who'd class an immigrant as someone who doesn't have pure ancestral roots here. Not really sure anyone has made that argument though?

Im not really sure of the point being made. Someone who is born here can't complain about the effects of immigration unless they date back as English generations?

It's the argument Izzard was trying to point at Farage and it's stupid. Not as bad as the Royals are German argument though.
 
Smores said:
Only to those who'd class an immigrant as someone who doesn't have pure ancestral roots here. Not really sure anyone has made that argument though?

Im not really sure of the point being made. Someone who is born here can't complain about the effects of immigration unless they date back as English generations?

It's the argument Izzard was trying to point at Farage and it's stupid. Not as bad as the Royals are German argument though.
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It's a counter to the stupid argument that immigration is an inherent threat to our culture because it devalues being 'British' and devalues our culture to point out that we're all immigrants in someway or another.

I'm not sure if anyone on heres made that argument, but its a sadly pervasive opinion in the real world.
 
Zarlak said:
I mean, FFS. This guy would be dangerous with hot water, let alone our country.

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Boris may be good in small doses. But the more you see of him the more you just want him to be the next Tory leader.
 
NinjaFletch said:
It's a counter to the stupid argument that immigration is an inherent threat to our culture because it devalues being 'British' and devalues our culture to point out that we're all immigrants in someway or another.

I'm not sure if anyone on heres made that argument, but its a sadly pervasive opinion in the real world.
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I'm playing devil's advocate but that's a poor reply to the immigration argument.

It's rather obvious that when people say British culture they're doing so within their context of recent times. A lot of this country is first or second generation and I'm sure they consider themselves British, those people would have as much right as anyone to be concerned with an influx of immigration and the effect that could have on social cohesion. I'm sure no one here denies immigration has the potential to cause issues?
 
As I'm English and my wife is French - when we lived together in England - my wife was an immigrant , when we moved to France I became the immigrant, my two children both born in England have dual nationality. Both have two children each all with dual nationality.
One of our children lives in France - one of her children was born in the UK and one in France, the other lives in England with her two children born in the UK.
Who is the immigrant and who isn't?
 
B20 said:
I've been taking an interest in this the past few days as it looks you bunch of inbred insular island mongrel-men might actually vote 'no'.

I noticed that it seems the 'no' movement is primarily Pathos driven, whilst the 'yes' movement is driven by rationalist concerns.

Why no pathos for the 'yes' vote? What about the fecking future of mankind, Tommy? We've spent 70 years now tearing down walls, bringing people together, evolving human consciousness. And now when the human spirit is getting tested, you want to crawl back in your shell, "we wuz alright being tribal, guv", with reckless abandon for the consequences this could have for the global spirit of looking beyond borders and antiquated tribal markings. Now, you want to go hold hands with Trump, start building walls (and no, we won't pay for it. As Obama remarked, you go "to the back of the trade queue") and mind your own business? If the spirit of global humanity cracks apart at a time when it is needed more than ever, we will look to this point and say it all started when the UK took its ball and went home to suck its own thumb.

PS. Scotland, Wales - If Brexit happens, this would be an excellent opportunity to stick it to your imperialist subjugators and come join the circle. Always welcome.
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Do you mean the middle class and below ?
 
Smores said:
I'm playing devil's advocate but that's a poor riposte to the immigration argument.

It's rather obvious that when people say British culture they're doing so within their context of recent times. A lot of this country is first or second generation and I'm sure they consider themselves British, those people would have as much right as anyone to be concerned with an influx of immigration and the effect that could have on social cohesion. I'm sure no one here denies immigration has the potential to cause issues?
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Exactly.

Being 'British' is a fluid thing. In the past 50-100 years an influx of immigrants who are now first and second generation have contributed to our culture and shifted what would be considered British culture. Back then too, you'd have seen the same complaints about those immigrants you now consider to be British: that they're eroding British values and undermining our culture.

Lets throw it back 1000 years: What was a Brit then? What we would now call the Welsh. After the departure of the Roman's a series of Germanic tribes, the Angles and the Saxons settled, the term 'English' derives from 'Anglia' the location in Jutland were the Angles came from. After that a series of Danish invasions and then subsequent settlement occurred and in 1066 the Normans (who were themselves named because they were Norse but had become frank-ified and settled in the region we now call Normandy) conquered the kingdom that had only been cemented as the Kingdom of England about 100 years before.

What is British has always shifted and has always been influenced by the influx of people. Whilst people's concerns about the squeeze immigration can place on public services and jobs is one thing (and to be clear at no point am I referencing or referring to that argument) any sort of argument that immigration should be stopped to preserve Britishness is largely hogwash. For even if we accept that Britishness if something we can define, what we now consider British is based on, literally, millennia worth of immigration.
 
B20 said:
I've been taking an interest in this the past few days as it looks you bunch of inbred insular island mongrel-men might actually vote 'no'.

I noticed that it seems the 'no' movement is primarily Pathos driven, whilst the 'yes' movement is driven by rationalist concerns.

Why no pathos for the 'yes' vote? What about the fecking future of mankind, Tommy? We've spent 70 years now tearing down walls, bringing people together, evolving human consciousness. And now when the human spirit is getting tested, you want to crawl back in your shell, "we wuz alright being tribal, guv", with reckless abandon for the consequences this could have for the global spirit of looking beyond borders and antiquated tribal markings. Now, you want to go hold hands with Trump, start building walls (and no, we won't pay for it. As Obama remarked, you go "to the back of the trade queue") and mind your own business? If the spirit of global humanity cracks apart at a time when it is needed more than ever, we will look to this point and say it all started when the UK took its ball and went home to suck its own thumb.

PS. Scotland, Wales - If Brexit happens, this would be an excellent opportunity to stick it to your imperialist subjugators and come join the circle. Always welcome.
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I'm pretty sure Scotland will leave if GB leaves the EU.
 
My stance up to now has been that Remain have won all the economic and political arguments, but that if Leave could convince me they would significantly reduce immigration I might switch.
Leave have failed to do that for me, but - I'm starting to get so pissed off with being called racist, stupid and uneducated that a bit of British stubbornness may yet kick in.
A few more of the 'we understand you know feck-all so we'll explain a bit of history and tell you where the royal family came from' posts might just tip me over.
 
Remain supporters don't really do the cause any favours when they take the arguments for leaving that a Jeremy Kyle guest might come up with and argue against them, while ignoring the real issues that the vast majority are concerned with.
 
712 said:
My stance up to now has been that Remain have won all the economic and political arguments, but that if Leave could convince me they would significantly reduce immigration I might switch.
Leave have failed to do that for me, but - I'm starting to get so pissed off with being called racist, stupid and uneducated that a bit of British stubbornness may yet kick in.
A few more of the 'we understand you know feck-all so we'll explain a bit of history and tell you where the royal family came from' posts might just tip me over.
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Genuine question - what is your stance on immigration and what types of controls would you like to see in place and why ?
 
hobbers said:
Remain supporters don't really do the cause any favours when they take the arguments for leaving that a Jeremy Kyle guest might come up with and argue against them, while ignoring the real issues that the vast majority are concerned with.
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What are the real issues?
 
712 said:
My stance up to now has been that Remain have won all the economic and political arguments, but that if Leave could convince me they would significantly reduce immigration I might switch.
Leave have failed to do that for me, but - I'm starting to get so pissed off with being called racist, stupid and uneducated that a bit of British stubbornness may yet kick in.
A few more of the 'we understand you know feck-all so we'll explain a bit of history and tell you where the royal family came from' posts might just tip me over.
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Surely you are not going to change your view, that could affect you, your family , your future or your country because someone on a forum upset you
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Surely you are not going to change your view, that could affect you, your family , your future or your country because someone on a forum upset you
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The Cafe is a very small part of what I read and view, but no, probably not, I was just expressing that the derogatory stuff from all angles is getting very counter-productive, as the polls seem to be indicating, although there's lots of factors in play of course.
 
712 said:
The Cafe is a very small part of what I read and view, but no, probably not, I was just expressing that the derogatory stuff from all angles is getting very counter-productive, as the polls seem to be indicating, although there's lots of factors in play of course.
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Problem is that 90% of what is out there from both sides is mainly rubbish, living on people's emotions rather than objective facts. A lot of people are so confused or biased they don't know what the truth is and are voting on the basis of what they think the truth is, this should never have gone to a referendum
 
According to the polls someone who is;
A young male who is rich and from the middle class and lives in the south and votes Labour is likely to vote Remain
whereas
an old male who is poor and from the working class, lives up north and votes Conservative is likely to vote Leave

Seems to be a contradiction in terms, does either type actually exist?
 
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