Sounds like a pretty average immigration scenario tbh.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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A form of arbitrage I suppose. At the moment I'm glad I haven't put any large bets on as intended, I'm finding the daily movement of investments stressful enough as it is. I recall @Jippy saying that moving your money into cash was good at the moment, and half wish I had.
Well exactly right Nick, I don't.
My question is why you don't advocate making her fly home?
She doesn't contribute to our system, she isn't a UK citizen, based on her age she doesn't work. So what argument is there for her staying that doesn't immediately also qualify the thousands of other people that we apparently shouldn't be letting in or allowing to stay? She's the dictionary definition of the sort of immigrant that Leave and its voters have spent months telling that I should hate, yet you advocate making an exception for her because you're touched by her personal situation?
Unless you mean to tell me you've stumbled upon the shocking realisation that immigrants are real people with real lives and real stories and aren't a faceless horde of intangible statistics that people feel vaguely threatened by for some reason?
Interesting idea, but I guess the gains are so small, you'd have to go massive on it to make any real money.
My Sipp's about 30% in cash. Wish it was more cos the last couple of weeks have been carnage.
Brexiteers are scumbags now? This thread has been such a welcoming and constructive arena for debate.
Which i have done.
Don't be ridiculous.
You've been on this forum since 2009 and you actually believe that to be a fair comment?
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unconfirmed... but if true will this impact on the referendum?
Nah, look at the replies to it.
There might be the off chance you're not a xenophobe or a racist, you just are completely oblivious to the economic damage you will do, seriously damaging my future career prospects and many other peoples career prospects whether they realize it yet or not.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-minister-erna-solberg-warning-a7084926.html
So we have 2 of the countries that the Leave campaign ram down our throats as examples of prosperity outside the EU actually being the opposite. Switzerland who encountered their worst ever recession on leaving and only recovered once they went back to the EU and conceded free movement of EU nationals and payments to Brussels, and Norway who's Prime Minister says we won't like it outside of the EU because Brussels will decide everything for us once we get an agreement with them. Which is what everyone is saying all along - but you know, scaremongering or something. It's okay to use them as examples when it suits their agenda (despite them actually being the complete opposite), but not when it doesn't.
So we have 2 of the countries that the Leave campaign ram down our throats as examples of prosperity outside the EU actually being the opposite. Switzerland who encountered their worst ever recession on leaving and only recovered once they went back to the EU and conceded free movement of EU nationals and payments to Brussels, and Norway who's Prime Minister says we won't like it outside of the EU because Brussels will decide everything for us once we get an agreement with them. Which is what everyone is saying all along - but you know, scaremongering or something. It's okay to use them as examples when it suits their agenda (despite them actually being the complete opposite), but not when it doesn't.
I've said it before but I shall say it again... I really do not feel we're getting the tone right, in this thread, when we're talking to those who wish to leave.
We're usually better than this.
No I actually think your hearts in the right place, even if I don't understand how you've come to some of the conclusions you have. Nevertheless, I find the argument that this is an EU issue, that this is an issue that would be solved by Brexit, or that Brexiters have in anyway advocated a policy that would put this woman in a better situation than she is now, a bit disingenuous.
It's seemed to me this whole debate has boiled down to immigration as a commodity, and Remain (and probably me as well, although I remember posting about the humanness of immigrants before to absolute crickets) are as bad as any. It's all a bit sad, I don't think we should be conducting cost/benefit analysis's on people and the EU's free movement of people is very dear to me, I just don't see how the system that Farage, Gove etc... advocate is anything more than a very cynical disengaged approach to the human side of immigration treating immigrants as nothing more than a commodity that can be traded.
The remain camp will have stooped to the lowest point imaginable if it tries to use this as part of its case.
I very much doubt it will, aside from perhaps the odd obscure numpty. It's not an issue about Leave/Remain or indeed right/left.
" Gove: The EU forced my father’s business to close.
The Guardian: Not according to him.
Gove: How dare you bring my father into this! "
The Guardian: Not according to him.
Gove: How dare you bring my father into this! "
But the Uk is different, don't you know old bean,what-ho, Brexit have convinced themselves and their sheep that they will still carry on trading with the EU without paying anything and not having to accept immigrants
Oh shit yeah, 5th largest economy and all that.
Given the geographic spreads is it fair to say England and Wales want to leave and Scotland wants to remain? Can there be a more perfect time for an independence referendum?
I think it more that perhaps leave msy have to tone down all the immigration stuff... Which has pretty much been their only tactic to date... You know like the post above shows for example
I think you need to wait for the result before that.
But, absolutely, there should be another Scottish referendum if we vote to leave, because they will vote to remain.
Hmm, I wonder. I'm sure at least some people will argue that the killing is essentially an act of terrorism if the motivation was political.
I think any vaguely sensible person would be aware that trying to play politics with this would be detrimental to their cause.
Youre' right, though the polls do seem to be deepening against Remain.
Good luck. Here's 5 minutes depressing reading: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/european-union-eu-britain-sovereignty
Hopefully not. Unlike you.
Just to play devils advocate, do they? They voted to remain part of the UK and the UK is now voting whether to leave or not. I don't see how them being pissed off that the UK voted to leave as a whole is different to an English person being pissed off if they voted to leave but Scotland voted to remain and we remained.
Because a referendum on whether England wanted to remain in the Union would be a bit silly?
One of the major arguments for better together was that Scotland would struggle to join the EU. A leave result is basically a breach of verbal contract.
The killing is an act of terrorism if its motivation was political. Thats true regardless of what political cause he happens to have supported (if the reason was political).
Sorry if I'm being thick, I'm not sure where that comes into it. I mean Scotland voted to remain part of the UK so surely they accept as part of that that the UK will vote on a whole and that if other parts of the UK boost a vote in a way they don't like then it's only fair and part and parcel of being part of the UK?
Yeah I agree with that, I'm playing devils advocate here.
Trust me if Scottish votes keep the uk in you will see plenty of UKIP and conservatives decide an independent Scotland is a good idea (so they can demand another eu referendum)
Sure you will, but you'd say to them well tough titties. The question is should the UK remain not should England remain. So surely the same would go for Scotland?
Not being thick, just using a logic that I don't think works in the reality, I would suggest. Since they voted to remain in the UK, we've elected a majority Tory government, they've almost entirely elected SNP members of parliament. Add in the rather more serious issue of us leaving the EU and I think it's entirely fair to say things have changed. Question will be when is the right time for a Scottish independence referendum, of course, at the moment their economy is less than happy as the North Sea oil business has plummeted.
Without EU immigrants net migration is still over 100,000 so there will be no generosity shown to non EU migrants
If she was an old Indian lady she would have been booted from the country
Indians are acceptable now, Bulgarians Poles and Romanians are a different matter
trueMy (Indian) parents just visited my dad's old friends in Bradford. These friends were very happy with the Asian community, whose numbers and appearance shocked my parents - half the people on the streets had either the skullcap+beard combo or the full burqa. We live not far from a Muslim area in Mumbai and my mom said the number of beards/burqas in Bradford matched those at home.
On the other hand, most of my dad's friends were ranting about East Europeans (who were simultaneously stealing jobs and living off welfare).
My (Indian) parents just visited my dad's old friends in Bradford. These friends were very happy with the Asian community, whose numbers and appearance shocked my parents - half the people on the streets had either the skullcap+beard combo or the full burqa. We live not far from a Muslim area in Mumbai and my mom said the number of beards/burqas in Bradford matched those at home.
On the other hand, most of my dad's friends were ranting about East Europeans (who were simultaneously stealing jobs and living off welfare).
This is it, every generation is the same, I grew up in the 50s and 60s, was the same then, immigrants from the Indian subcontinent, Africa, Caribbean coming over, which was actually encouraged by the British government, but the man in the street, using more polite terms, I don't want a 'darkie' living next to me or I'm not eating in that restaurant where coloured people have touched the food, before it was the Jews - this will never change
Agreed, this thread is largely a circle jerk of those who have already made their mind up that anyone who wants to leave is a fool.
I'll be voting remain because I can't possibly commit with so many unknowns in play but I find it a little disconcerting that people brush of the reasons some may wish to leave so easily.
The immigration discussion needs to happen even if the nation decides Remain for the sake of social cohesion. There's a reason people feel the way they do and to just tell them they're wrong and racist is disgusting. If you cant control your borders you need to show you can control the impact and be clear on the terms of immigration (rather than leaving it to the Daily mail to mislead).
I don't think people brush it off, I think the attitude is that the problems they bring up are not as concerning as potential economic ruin, or any form of recession, and that even in most cases the points that they bring up as the reasons they want to leave will not be resolved by leaving.
If anything, the annoying thing is some people on the leave side just brushing off the reasons why it may hurt us economically as scaremongering or no chance in hell it's going to happen. But on the whole I agree, nobody is here to learn everybody is just telling the other side they're wrong.
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