Whilst some of his remarks date back to 2010, others are as recent as 2014. And even during this campaign, the Europe Minister sated that the Government supports Turkey's accession process.
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Whilst some of his remarks date back to 2010, others are as recent as 2014. And even during this campaign, the Europe Minister sated that the Government supports Turkey's accession process.
Turkey will never be allowed to join, the big powers in Europe will always veto it. Their population would entitle them to a too big a vote.
And who do you trust? You must have formed your opinion somewhere? Thats what I don't understand, I can understand healthy scepticism (in fact Id argue not being critical of information is downright dangerous) but at some point when the entire extent of people that support Brexit boils down to who it is then surely you have to question the argument they're attemptong to persuade you of too?
And what would you say to things like the Ipsos Mori poll which suggests that peoples perceptions of the EU drastically underestimate its impact on our economy and dramatically overstate issues such as immigration?
I actually think the Remain campaigns biggest problem has been they haven't 'scaremongered' well enough, I think people are going into this referendum drastically underestimating the benefits of the EU and placing far too much stock in Leaves 'scaremongering' in regards to immigration.
But thats the point. Your argument boils down to 'people still suffer therefore the EU has not helped them'. That arguments inherently flawed because you're comparing it to a reality that doesn't exist. The argument is that people would have suffered more out than in and not that no one suffers in (would that it were true).
England very own Trump effect .
By the actions of its own government, domestically and abroad, Turkey is imply not a suitable candidate. If anything, it has moved further away from membership as the years have passed.
Ah, but is that particular remark 2010? And are the others as strong in their support of Turkey joining?
Several programmes on TV here over the last few days about Brexit - seems clear that the EU will take a Brexit as a slap in the face for the EU and the hope that the Brexiters could negotiate a favourable deal with the EU look remote to say the least. The message appears to be the EU will make the UK pay for their folly and will not waste their time on negotiating a deal with this upstart. A new deal could take between 2 to 8 years to negotiate, the EU doesn't need the UK, but the UK needs the EU
Britain isn't in the Eurozone, and there's other reasons why some of the countries have gone to shit. The only way your line of thinking works if you also willing to argue New York should become independent because Mississippi is a shithole.
Yet virtually every economic analyst has said there would be a negative impact on the economy. If you're still not convinced, is it a coincidence the FTSE falls and the GBP weakens as brexit becomes more likely?
It is incredibly frustrating that any point a remain campaigner makes, all you hear from the leave campaigners is "it's fear mongering". Well, perhaps it's because there is something to fear if we decide to leave.
Finally, it's all well and good people who want to leave do so saying they don't like the EU, but it's not like the leave campaigners have actually said anything about HOW they will remediate the issues.
As someone mentioned before, what's also frustrating and it is applicable to both sides, is that everyone just coins figures from their asses. The whole referendum has been based on bullshit lies and rhetoric.
Frankly, something like this should never have been a referendum. It's so fundimental, and not only do 99.99999999% of the people voting (if not 100%) have no idea of the consequence, outcome, or otherwise of the decision, it's also one which would inevitably be based on bullshit arguments instead of a real discussion of fact.
Albania will be a EU member before and that's a Muslim country, so it's clearly nothing to do with that.
All leave campaigners do is write off comments. When Obama said America wouldn't prioritise a deal with the UK, their response was it's not true... How can you even say it's not true when the man who said is ultimately in control of whether or not it happens (ignoring the fact his term ends).
They say they'll strike great deals with the EU... But 1) how can they say that when senior figures in EU member countries have said it'd damage relations and 2) when the EU doesn't really need us.
I know we are not in the Eurozone. Nowhere did I say we were.
My news editor is Anglo-Turkish, so I've heard a lot about the joys of life under Erdogan. All the ex-pats voted against him, from what I can gather, while those resident there obviously backed him.
As an aside, I got this Leave campaign flyer through my the door the other day. Meant to upload it earlier. I'm interested in your take on it, particularly given, the 'racism' issue has come up a bit tonight with regard to their campaign.
The front looks like it is an official document, rather than a campaign leaflet. It's only the URL in the inner spread that gives its true identity away.
This is pure scare-mongering though. Did I miss something or if Turkey joins the EU do Iraqi and Syrian nationals automatically get a Turkish, ie EU, passport, by default. Is pure Islamophobia.
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Eurozone's economy was your main negative there. Still, are you also willing to follow through on your logic to argue New York should go independent because of Mississippi?
Are you so sure? Check out the Exit campaign flyer above and tell me that isn't tacitly pointing to the 'Muslim threat'.
My news editor is Anglo-Turkish, so I've heard a lot about the joys of life under Erdogan. All the ex-pats voted against him, from what I can gather, while those resident there obviously backed him.
As an aside, I got this Leave campaign flyer through my the door the other day. Meant to upload it earlier. I'm interested in your take on it, particularly given, the 'racism' issue has come up a bit tonight with regard to their campaign.
The front looks like it is an official document, rather than a campaign leaflet. It's only the URL in the inner spread that gives its true identity away.
This is pure scare-mongering though. Did I miss something or if Turkey joins the EU do Iraqi and Syrian nationals automatically get a Turkish, ie EU, passport, by default. Is pure Islamophobia.
Caf party at Jippy's house!!!!!!!!
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yeah I didn't see that, pretty, pretty, prrreeeetttty racist as Larry David might say
The Eurozone's problems will affect us if we are in the EU.
As for New York/Mississipi, well that's your analogy not mine.
As they will if we're out of the EU.
I've only got three Stellas left and need to be up at 8am tomorrow!
It's not subtle. Few would dispute Turkey has problems, but hell, why highlight fecking Iraq and Syria unless you're effectively saying they are joining by proxy.
The Eurozone's problems will also affect us if we're not in the EU.
Only applying your logic to other scenarios. What about North Dakota, they've recently hit oil, why should they share it?
I don't think constantly complaining about being called racist is much help either. As I said there are legitimate concerns about the amount of immigrants and the impact it would have on public funds, but all the BS on Turkey really is quite bad.
Oh shit, I just realised that my wife's name and our address is on that, so have deleted the first pic. She kept her maiden name.First "FACT" on that leaflet for a start is wrong its £8.5bn not £19bn, even the sensible Brexiters admit this.
Thats what i was talking about
edited my post to take it out as well. I'm still turning up when I'm in London next week though, so bettrer get some more beers in.Are separatists in Scotland and Northern Ireland rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of Brexit? It'd be mighty hypocritical of Johnson and co. to argue better together after all this.
Now you're being silly, you know damned well the Uk will be living in the Utopia Bubble completely cut off from the rest of the world and reality
The commonwealth is practically begging for the queens guidance.
Thats what i was talking about
Sorry, I'm knackered and a bit slow on the uptake! Thanks again for sorting that out. We have a guard cat so beware! Nah, you're more than welcome to a beer.Here's a question for you lot, what's worse, Brexit and the destruction of the economy, or prime minister Boris Johnson and the destruction of the nations dignity?
Instead of buying BMW 's from Germany, will the Uk negotiate a deal with India and import millions of second hand Hindustan Ambassadors
Keep dreaming mate, the EU will collapse eventually if Britain leaves. They need us as much as we need them. It is a failed experiment.
Even the Germans and the people in your country of residence agree we should leave:
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsr...-quit/ar-AAh1uEt?li=BBoPU0R&ocid=mailsignoutmd
No, because for all the outrage and anger we'll see in Scotland, I still don't think we'll see a push for a second referendum (or at least one won't happen), because there's still a lot of uncertainty over it and the SNP won't want to commit to one until they're sure it'll definitely happen.
If the economy goes to shit as expected, won't it be an easy sell to say "leave this union for a bigger, better one"?
Perhaps they do hope the UK would leave, sick of the whinging poms . The EU definitely do not need the UK, they like them for their reasonable views ,discounting UKIP , but trade wise , umm no. You will find out on 24th June if brexit wins
I don't know why people are finding it hard to understand the reluctance of the public to accept the expert views of economists.
The last 8/9 years have informed the public quite well about the validity of that particular area of expertise.
When the talking heads compare it to medicine I wish they would add at the time when they bled people with leaches for everything may be.
Its the same with regulators and the establishment experts. If you didn't see the financial collapse coming, that the UK shouldn't be joining the ERM, that the UK shouldn't join the Euro or that Greece wasn't in a fit state to join the Euro. What price the credibility of the establishment, regulators and the economists who have failed repeatedly to actually do or predict anything about the cart load of shit going on all around.
This time they definitely know how everything is going to pan out. Yeah right is the general public's response.
It will be ironic if they are correct and get this call right just as everyone has lost faith in them completely and ignored their opinion but the loss of faith in them isn't surprising given where we are.
The last 8/9 years have informed the public quite well about the validity of that particular area of expertise.
When the talking heads compare it to medicine I wish they would add at the time when they bled people with leaches for everything may be.
Its the same with regulators and the establishment experts. If you didn't see the financial collapse coming, that the UK shouldn't be joining the ERM, that the UK shouldn't join the Euro or that Greece wasn't in a fit state to join the Euro. What price the credibility of the establishment, regulators and the economists who have failed repeatedly to actually do or predict anything about the cart load of shit going on all around.
This time they definitely know how everything is going to pan out. Yeah right is the general public's response.
It will be ironic if they are correct and get this call right just as everyone has lost faith in them completely and ignored their opinion but the loss of faith in them isn't surprising given where we are.
I think it would be more that they want Britain to leave to begin the dismantlement of your beloved EU.
That is not going to happen, it will make it more united if anything. Holland are probably the most anti-EU of the other 27 but they cannot survive on their own either.
For the time being but the trend is all one way. I don't see what can happen to change the trend either, the fundamental economic problem of tying your currency to a much more productive country's is only getting worse.
A certain level of distrust of ''experts'' is healthy but I disagree that this distrust come from the collapse of 2008(Although it really should do)and has rather more to do with the public incredibly simply view on economics and on the EU(http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-nearly-everything-survey-shows-a7074311.html).
This is the level of talk we have in this country about economics -
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