Muppets will dread this.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Would lead to a re-emphasis on Academy development, no?
If we lose the NHS because of the thick cnuts in this country that only voted because they're racist it'll be the biggest 'stop the world, I want to get off' moment ever.
I feel like there should be a certain standard achieved before you're allowed to vote in this, but that wouldn't be very moral.
I feel like there should be a certain standard achieved before you're allowed to vote in this, but that wouldn't be very moral.
Imagine Leicester couldn't sign Kante because he hadn't played international football, or us Martial or even Cristiano Ronaldo - the list is endless
Is that really a possibility!?
It's obviously up in the air and I'm no expert, but it looks far more likely if we leave to me. One thing that stood out, and someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but Boris is very keen on dismantling the NHS, very keen on leaving, and could end up PM. He's only ever dodged and deflected direct questions about it from what I've seen (including someone firing his own quotes at him about it in a debate recently) .
Starting to regret not registering but trying to be sensible and persuasive on here might swing at least one voter to vote Remain
Like most of the Remain campaign you've probably had a negative effect, based on purely negative campaigning, and an inability to effectively articulate the value of the free market vs UK net contributor fees. My making a few comments in the past challenging in any way a remain view was met with condescending comments basically belittling my view. The truth is nobody really knows what will happen. I'm currently undecided, but people like you have pushed me towards the exit door.
I sincerely hope for y'all's sake that that does not come to pass. As I understand it, the NHS has its flaws, but no system is perfect.
I also hope for our sake that it is not destroyed, as that would most likely destroy any chance of momentum building in the United States for a move towards such a system.
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NHS spend stayed consistent despite recession. Britain cannot afford to risk under spending on an already stretched NHS. Privatisation may well continue to grow but an underlying NHS will remain either way.
More accurately, no politician can afford to under spend on the NHS, it's their biggest playground and messing with it is suicide.
Why by telling the truth, all the facts are in this thread whether posted by me or many others, Remainers without agenda have no reason to lie or be biased, still haven't seen anything from Brexit that is any way plausible. I apologise for sounding condescending, but after all this time and so many discussions and arguments it gets really frustrating to keep repeating the same thing. If people don't want to listen , they won't . Imo the UK will make a grave mistake if they leave and although it will not affect me very much, to see my country of birth do something like this makes me sad but angry as well.
For me, I have no issue with anyone voting for what they believe to be the best for the country after gaining some knowledge on the situation (as much as you can with all the ridiculous campaigning). It's the many idiots that vote for stupid reasons, and they could seriously sway it.
All I can say is, if you aren't sure which way to go (as I wasn't a few weeks ago), why would you take a random punt on leaving? I know either way is a punt of sorts, but is it worth the risk? The only positives I've heard from leave campaigners/politicians is 'this could happen' 'that could happen', but considering politicians don't even stick to what they say will happen, do you trust anyone to follow through with these supposed positives or is it more likely they'll slowly take away some of the positive things we currently have that we take for granted?
Could you elaborate? Is that good or bad?
You just emphasised my point.
NHS is under threat regardless but it's a mistake o be so blasé in our assumption that Brexit will wreck our economy and all the rights we have and had in this counts before the European Communities Act was passed. NHS existed before it, as did concepts of workers rights. Our economy was stronger before we joined the EU in many ways.
Leaving would alow us to;
Negotiate trade deals on our own.
Negotiate deals without having to take into account the needs, demands or differing priorities of other countries with widely different economies to ours (Romania and Greece for example).
To protect British industries and discriminate in their favour instead of having to tender contracts to foreign companies.
Protect our fisheries.
Adopt our own rules on immigration which could be flexible with regards our economic needs at the time. I'm not going to argue about what systems good or bad or whether immigration is good or bad per se - but bring able to make the decisions ourselves at least gives us the ability to react to changing markets.
Protect the city of London from EU rules like FTTs thereby increasing it's competitiveness.
Reduce the burden on overstretched public services and the welfare budget of the country.
Not pay the huge amount (billions at least - who knows whether the £350m a week is right or not - but it's a huge amount).
Most importantly - I can't help but feel the EU is a dying beast. It stumbles from crisis to crisis and bailout to bailout. It will collapse soon - or it will have to move significantly closer together as the trend to more Europe continues which of course brings us into issues of democracy and sovereignty - on which again the leave has for me stronger arguments.
Finally - along with many others, I just feel so pisseed off with the undemocratic nature of the EU and the politicians who have foisted it on us disguised as other economic initiatives when they are really pursuing political and social Union without us being asked and having being misled repeated by them.
Leaving would alow us to;
Negotiate trade deals on our own.
Negotiate deals without having to take into account the needs, demands or differing priorities of other countries with widely different economies to ours (Romania and Greece for example).
To protect British industries and discriminate in their favour instead of having to tender contracts to foreign companies.
Protect our fisheries.
Adopt our own rules on immigration which could be flexible with regards our economic needs at the time. I'm not going to argue about what systems good or bad or whether immigration is good or bad per se - but bring able to make the decisions ourselves at least gives us the ability to react to changing markets.
Protect the city of London from EU rules like FTTs thereby increasing it's competitiveness.
Reduce the burden on overstretched public services and the welfare budget of the country.
Not pay the huge amount (billions at least - who knows whether the £350m a week is right or not - but it's a huge amount).
Most importantly - I can't help but feel the EU is a dying beast. It stumbles from crisis to crisis and bailout to bailout. It will collapse soon - or it will have to move significantly closer together as the trend to more Europe continues which of course brings us into issues of democracy and sovereignty - on which again the leave has for me stronger arguments.
Finally - along with many others, I just feel so pisseed off with the undemocratic nature of the EU and the politicians who have foisted it on us disguised as other economic initiatives when they are really pursuing political and social Union without us being asked and having being misled repeated by them.
So did you
The interviews with people voting leave in this newsnight feature is making me want to bang my head against the wall 
"There's no money, they're cutting benefits for our own so there's more to give to immigrants"
"There's no money, they're cutting benefits for our own so there's more to give to immigrants"
Most of these are unlikely to affect us as people though aren't they? Apart from the pubic services, and there's plenty of arguments for and against on both sides from what I've seen.
Re NHS, it may have existed before it, but was it under attack from people like Boris at that time? He, and people like him would be in a great position to get what they want wouldn't they?
Not disagreeing with anything you've said. Genuinely just interested in other's opinions and I'm sure you know more than I.
In a word, no.
Even if Boris has issues with the NHS, its disbandment won't be on his manifesto. But more importantly, there does not exist the requisite political will, either within the Tory Party or the Commons as a whole.
Could a weakened economy force the government's hand?
They won't destroy it in one go, the clinical commissioning groups will fund fewer services and central government will claim its not up to them as decision has been devolved, they'll only legislate to ensure money is spent on their voters, the old. The NHS will be hollowed out, like dentistry
It's not being blase, it's looking at evidence, facts and the opinions of 88% of British economists along with many experts.
No it would not, I cannot understand how naive you could possibly be on this. Do you understand that a trade deal with the EU will require the agreement of every EU member state? Which means taking into account their needs and demands. If you think for one second that the EU will agree as a collective including all of the member states that we don't even do business with to give us everything we want without anything in return then there's no point in a discussion.
If our GDP drops by as little as 0.6% then the billions you think you're saving instantly evaporates. Not only that, we then have less money than we had before.
The problem is that the incoming migrants, even if they do pay taxes don't create the surplus in the budget to give us the hospital and schools places etc to support the migration in the short term. If I look at my own life scenario, I manage people at a big corp company, out of the 8 people working for me in the UK 1 Bulgarian, 1 Romanian, 1 Italian/Argentinian, 1 South African/Hungarian, 1 Turkish, the other 3 are English. We get along fine, but it's naive to thing that this is not pressuring our public services.
Lose the NHS? Is that the latest bit of propaganda that came through your letterbox? Utter tripe.
The public should never have been allowed to vote on this.The interviews with people voting leave in this newsnight feature is making me want to bang my head against the wall
"There's no money, they're cutting benefits for our own so there's more to give to immigrants"
Not even Remain's more outlandish predictions on the economy will lead to the destruction of the NHS. There simply isn't another show in town, and certainly no serious movement toward complete privatisation. The only thing you which comes up from time to time is the introduction of a nominal charge to see a GP.
There's plenty of points raised that suggest it. Not read any direct propaganda. Just other people's opinions and watched the debates on TV (which were zero help).
At least prove the point you have to make? Like I've already said multiple times, I'm more than open to other's opinions and thoughts. That post was entirely aimed at clowns voting for primarily racist or completely uninformed reasons, and I did say 'if'.
Out of the 8 people, the 3 English people pay their taxes and contribute to providing the public services they receive, don't the other 5 pay taxes?
I suppose the main point is that it protects the NHS, its bulletproof. How detrimental it is the the management of it though it anybodies guess.
What about all the thick cnuts voting to stay in without knowing what the European Union is all about? Or the shallow cnuts who are voting to stay in because they abide by politics of association rather than politics of individual analysis?
It's better than the chavs voting for solely racist reasons. I'm not talking about people who are voting leave with their head, or people who are concerned about immigration issues.
So while you lived in the UK you mainly voted for the most anti EU party and the cause of the referendum and now you have left the UK you complain about Brexit voters. fecking hell what an admission given your stance in this thread. I don't know how you have the face to make half the comments you have made given your stated voting record.
You seem to have as completely an irreconcilable position a David the hypocrite Cameron.
It's hilarious that you think any of that means you're not entitled to a valid opinion. Are you somehow of the belief that voting for a party means that you agree with 100% of their policies and can't fault any of them? Or that perhaps one can't change their mind over time?
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Seriously?
I take it you are another conservative voting or would be conservative voter turned critic of the Brexit vote you created by voting conservative and now try to disavow.
The problem you have with your stance is that if as you say it could lead to such a terrible outcome for the country as you predict then why vote for an anti EU party and the end of political civilisation in Europe as we know it?
Labour said no referendum vote and of all the shit you say is going to happen after a Brexit vote happens only if people vote conservative. This is on you and people like you who voted for that party.
If it is going to be so bad and you really think it will be so bad then why vote for the party which proposed the referendum?
Attacking people for voting leave at this point having voted conservative to get the referendum in the first place makes you either and idiot who didn't realise the importance of the referendum or an idiot who didn't realise the outcome was uncertain or you are now lying about the possible consequences of an out vote unless voting ED caused WW3 and destroyed the NHS etc etc.
To put it bluntly vote Ed avoid Brexit Vote Dave risk Brexit. You would only vote Dave if Brexit wasn't such a big deal because if it was the obvious disaster people like you say it would be then you would not have voted for the party promising the referendum.
If the vote was tomorrow I will vote remain. I hold the people who voted for the party in power who called the referendum in the first place responsible for the outcome. Can't see how anyone voting conservative can really wriggle out of that.
He hasn't said he voted Tory at the last general election. Plus, if you felt confident that Brexit would get rejected then you could give more weight to other policies/factors.
1.He stepped into a debate I was having with someone who said he had so we will wait to see!
2. Well it looks like you would be massively wrong then, in that analysis, if you believe the down side to a Brexit vote this close.
The point is that if all the remainers really believe all the doom and gloom they say, how certain would you have to be of the referendum to make the risk worth while. Are we really saying that Ed Miliband as PM would be more damaging to the UK than they say a Brexit vote would be.
Odds on betfair have gone up from 11/8, to 6/4 overnight. Interesting.
I think the Will Hill fella was just trying to get people to bet. Not worth touching this with such uncertainty still.
Best things I heard on the radio this morning was a Brexiter saying that the pound getting weaker is a great thing...
I'm actually finding the behaviour of Osborne and Cameron not only nauseatingly predictable but embarrassing. Can't see Osborne lasting much longer if Brexit wins. Then again I can't see him lasting much longer if Remain win. Both of them have handled this badly and lost credibility with so many people, including their own MPs. Pretty sure Cameron will still be here whatever the outcome but both of them are coming across as nasty, petulant spoilt kids who just can't cope with not getting their own way.
That would be a good thing if England was actually producing and exporting stuff.
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