I never understood the line from the Leave people that I talk to 'you think if I go to Spain I'll be able to get benefits just like that?' .... what... you mean that EU country therefore it's clearly not an EU issue you fecking moron but an issue you have with our government?
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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I never understood the line from the Leave people that I talk to 'you think if I go to Spain I'll be able to get benefits just like that?' .... what... you mean that EU country therefore it's clearly not an EU issue you fecking moron but an issue you have with our government?
Well, at least your good manners are not open to debate.
Actually some countries do have it written into their laws that benefits are dependent on previous contrubuitions
we do not - we could change our laws to do this but if we do we cant discriminate between for example a graduate who has just come out of uni looking to go onto befefits or an EU national who comes over to the country
Spain I believe operates a system where you must have previously been working and making contributions (for a short time) to claim benefits - Im not an expert but I think thats the case
Basically we are too scared to re-write our own laws and potentially take benefits away from brits who have never contributed
Thats exactly what Zarlak's saying isn't it?
That's what I mean. Some ignorant people want out of the EU because of our rules around benefits to immigration, and in a bonkers way they cite other European countries with tighter rules not realising that the fact that European countries being able to do this shows it's clearly not the EU that's stopping us from doing it. It makes no sense.
Yes, but the EU is by nature pulling the member states to the right, financially and economically. EU-immigrants for example don't lower the pay for lawyers and bankers etc, they make it harder to compete for builders and cleaners.
Spot on.
Exactly , been saying this all along, every country has different rules, of course it's not the EU, just government failings, just pure ignorance or lies
I was only jesting fella. You know how these things go... my opinion is somewhat opposite to yours and little is likely to change for either of us in that regard. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted given I don't particularly have the inclination for any lengthy debate today.
Well, I guess obviously that is your opinion... interesting article in the Guardian below suggests otherwise though. Perhaps worth a read if you're bored/interested.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ck-are-eu-migrants-really-taking-british-jobs
I'm not a fan of VAT (regressive taxation) so the mandatory 15% VAT and 5% reduced rate VAT are not things I thank the EU for.
The wider point is that I am certain that the £8bn figure will be more than wiped out by the hit our GDP will take and the cost of any alternative trade arrangements with the single market.
Permanent and significant? I guess yes to both. I don't think the hit will simply be a short term blip that corrects. Significant? The predictions of ~3% fall do not seem unlikely to me.
The slow death of center/center right politics. Although I have very little sympathy with people who have looked at the problems this country(and the wider world)are facing and come to the conclusion that the answer is Nigel Farage.
Immigration is an easy answer to long term wage stagnation, housing shortfall, etc. You are correct that the failure to adequately deal with the failures of global capitalism (of which the EU is a both a proponent and responsible for) has lead to the right wing populism and xenophobia that is on the rise throughout Western Europe and the US. But that doesn't mean immigration is actually the problem or the source of a solution.
Intresing times, the far right of the Tory party promising to spend on an NHS they'd love to abolish and cut VAT, a flat, regressive tax they'd love to introduce in place of Income Tax
Does anyone else find it a bit of a strange coincidence that the film 'Independence day' which is being advertised, is out on exactly the same day as the EU referendum. I know it's a bit off subject but of all days, it is released on exactly the same day as the Brexit vote? Was that intentional?
Sadly I think it's going to be a leave vote. You'll need a hell of a turn out from the younger voters.
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feck sake, the pound is on its arse against the dollar, my upcoming trip is looking like it's about to get a lot more expensive 
I'm not against immigration per se (and certainly not against immigrants at all), but there's immigration for the right reasons and for the wrong reasons. The right reasons are love, love for the job, a company or opportunity that is particular for the country.
The wrong reasons are a significant difference in cost of living and related wages, as is hiring foreigners because they're cheaper. The freedom to migrate within the EU is one of the holy articles of the EU and is only serving the employers and the cost of it will be paid by society as a whole. It's also the working class (in or out of a job) who has to deal with the social problems and friction coming with lots of immigrants, which could be as straight forward as higher rents.
So there might be a lot of economical positives related to immigration, for that kind of immigration you don't need the EU, and certainly not the EU's holy article. Switzerland has that kind of immigrants too. The other migration has for example caused Belgium to lose 40.000 jobs in the building sector alone in about ten years. Just because Poles and Bulgarians are about 10 euro's an hour cheaper, and most of those foreign builders export the money they've earned instead of spending it all in Belgium. Belgians would be much better of if Belgium was allowed to regulate immigration.
And that's not the only way the EU serves the interests of the right wing.
Highly unlikely it is intentional.
Not surprising. I'm sure I remember seeing a study showing that places in the UK most worried about immigration have the least amount of immigration. But you know Nigel drinks from a pint glass so yeah....Place of birth in Stoke-on-Trent vs England
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Allow me to point out my perspective. I'm a Duchtman and I'd welcome an Brexit because both the UK with it's City of London and the EU are both agents of a global perversion of capitalism. I'm very Europe minded, but the EU's claim of the whole continent's successes as their own seem right wing populist to me. Populism is not exclusive to xenofobic parties. Most of what makes Europe great is the product of sovereign democratic nations in it cooperating peacefully. The EU's predecessors like the EC and the EEC were part of that cooperation, this EU is the enemy of democracy and therefore the acquired wealth or what's left of it like decent working hours, vacations, wages that easily pay rents, food safety, security, health care, environmental care etc. They are the product of democracy, not of international cooperation and the EU is turning back the clock as is the Anglo Saxon model of reaganomics and Thatcherism.
But without the UK, the EU might get a bit better because we don't have a powerful country in it which economy is dependent on the City, which is a parasitic and dangerous industry. That could make it possible for the EU to finally clean up and shrink down the financial sector. That's why the US, i.e. Wall Street loyals like the Clintons and Obama, need the UK to stay in the EU so badly. And that's why I want you English out, the rest of the UK can come back in.
He kinds of enforce my line of thought that if Brexit occur then the EU will do anything in its power to stick one back to the English.
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feck sake, the pound is on its arse against the dollar, my upcoming trip is looking like it's about to get a lot more expensive
If its after the 23rd then I'd add another 10% to the cost
I'm hoping for a Remain win and a rally in the rate.
@Rado_N @Paul the Wolf
Ah come on now. You wouldn't imagine how expensive my trip to the UK was a couple years ago! $1.65 per £
Ah come on now. You wouldn't imagine how expensive my trip to the UK was a couple years ago! $1.65 per £
Looking very unlikely at the moment.
We can all hope but it's looking a bit grim, if Remain win the pound will jump up.
@Rado_N @Paul the Wolf
Ah come on now. You wouldn't imagine how expensive my trip to the UK was a couple years ago! $1.65 per £
Imagine how cheap it will be the next time if Brexit wins
@Rado_N @Paul the Wolf
Ah come on now. You wouldn't imagine how expensive my trip to the UK was a couple years ago! $1.65 per £
I remember being over there when £1 bought $2! Those were the days!
Looking depressingly grim, but the general election polls were all shit iirc so we can hope.
But you won't be able to buy anything with the shelves all emptyhmmm... You have a point, sir.
Go Brexit!
It's odd- the bookies are not dumb, but obviously not infallible either and they have a very different view to the polls.
Paddy Power
EU Membership Referendum Hide
Singles Only. Applies to the result of the first nationwide UK referendum on leaving the EU entirely. Must take place by the end of May 2020.
In favour of remaining in EU
8/15
In favour of exiting EU
6/4
It's almost as if the Remain campaign don't want to remain themselves; wheeling out the likes Sturgeon, Blair and Brown to aid their cause is commercial suicide. Brexit campaigners don't really have to try hard against these juggernauts.
But you won't be able to buy anything with the shelves all empty
You get my hopes up and then dash them to bits
That's what the poor people will be saying to Farage and Johnson if Brexit wins and they find out utopia doesn't actually exist
that is somewhat skewed though as there was a bookie on five live a few days ago saying they had some massive bets very early on in the campaign so that has somewhat influenced their odds as well
though personally I hope the bookies are right and we do stay
Those odds are slipping though and are based on the fact a lot of people already put money on remain when it looked more likely.
Ah, OK, that would make sense- they could take a bit of a pasting here.
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