EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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Is anyone voting by post? i dont understand the deadline being 5pm today. Does that mean they have needed to receive the registration it by 5pm today...?

Its strange holding the poll in June, when there going to be over 1m Brits at the Euro at that time, who many wont even bother voting
 
starman said:
Is anyone voting by post? i dont understand the deadline being 5pm today. Does that mean they have needed to receive the registration it by 5pm today...?

Its strange holding the poll in June, when there going to be over 1m Brits at the Euro at that time, who many wont even bother voting
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I'm pretty certain its 5pm today to register for a postal vote (providing you're already on the register) and then the vote has to be returned by the 23rd (for obvious reasons).
 
NinjaFletch said:
I'm pretty certain its 5pm today to register for a postal vote (providing you're already on the register) and then the vote has to be returned by the 23rd (for obvious reasons).
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yeah i have my polling card, but i dont know if i will be able to attend in person, only found out yesterday the deadline to register for postal vote is 5pm today. I thought i could just logon to my the council website and register for a postal vote there. Seems form need to be sent off to register. But they dont make it clear if they need to have received them or sent by 5pm today
 
Raees said:
What would happen if the UK voted to remain but just refused to let immigrants in.. would it face huge fines, expulsion etc.. what are the legal ramifications for disobedience in relation to free movement of peoples?
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In order to do that the UK would also have to leave, for example, the European Convention on Human Rights. Not only that, any potential trade deal with the EU, for example, would depend on agreements regarding immigrants and free movement of peoples.
 
starman said:
yeah i have my polling card, but i dont know if i will be able to attend in person, only found out yesterday the deadline to register for postal vote is 5pm today. I thought i could just logon to my the council website and register for a postal vote there. Seems form need to be sent off to register. But they dont make it clear if they need to have received them or sent by 5pm today
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Apply for a postal vote anyway. If the prime minister is urging people to still apply past the deadline, then it should be alright.

There was a systems overload last night so they'll likely be taking applications for a other day or two. Do it quickly though!
 
I've been an idiot about this. Wasn't intending to vote as I'd really just had my head in the sand over it all, before last night I was talking to a friend and the reality of what a feck up it would be to leave hit home. I was intending to register to vote right away today but obviously missed the deadline (not even knowing there was one as I'd just thrown out all the leaflets etc). I'm an idiot. Not that I would've been able to vote last night with the technical problems anyway!

Seeing all the talk aboutit possibly being extended though - how likely do people think this is?
 
Waldner said:
I've been an idiot about this. Wasn't intending to vote as I'd really just had my head in the sand over it all, before last night I was talking to a friend and the reality of what a feck up it would be to leave hit home. I was intending to register to vote right away today but obviously missed the deadline (not even knowing there was one as I'd just thrown out all the leaflets etc). I'm an idiot. Not that I would've been able to vote last night with the technical problems anyway!

Seeing all the talk aboutit possibly being extended though - how likely do people think this is?
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Dave tweeted 45 minutes ago encouraging people to sign up to vote still. Just do it now and see what happens. Worst thing to do is not sign up now and realise you still could have.

(If you know, or have your NI number handy it takes less time to do than it did to write that post, its a painless process)
 
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Why wait till now to register . Not as if this referendum was suddenly put upon them.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Dave tweeted 45 minutes ago encouraging people to sign up to vote still. Just do it now and see what happens. Worst thing to do is not sign up now and realise you still could have.
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Yeah saw that, registered 10 minutes ago. Hopefully it reopens as despite my stupidity, I do want to have a say.

Drifter said:
Why wait till now to register . Not as if this referendum was suddenly put upon them.
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Not sure for everyone else of course, but for me I've never bothered with politics. No one really represents me properly, I have no idea what 90% of policies would even mean for the average Joe like myself and I don't trust anyone involved in the industry as far as I can throw them. So as soon as I heard about the referendum I've just ignored it really. Until I was speaking to my friend and realised that this isn't about being represented and the outcomes are pretty obvious - but with no idea about any deadline I just decided to register today, which is too late of course (well, hopefully not now).
 
starman said:
yeah i have my polling card, but i dont know if i will be able to attend in person, only found out yesterday the deadline to register for postal vote is 5pm today. I thought i could just logon to my the council website and register for a postal vote there. Seems form need to be sent off to register. But they dont make it clear if they need to have received them or sent by 5pm today
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yes its 5pm today however you can also get someone to vote for you (proxy), that deadline is 5pm next Wednesday.


I work in Electoral services so nightmare at the moment! However if anyone has any queries about the electoral process I'll try and answer them.
 
Steven Seagull said:
I applied for a postal vote a couple of weeks ago as I'll be on holiday in the EU. Haven't received anything back yet. Anybody else applied for postal?
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TheGame said:
If you only applied a couple of weeks ago about mailing dates. Postal Votes are usually printed externally and mailed on certain dates.
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Indeed. I did the same and just missed the first batch of postal votes. The missus got hers last week, they told me mine will be sent out around the 16th.
 
NinjaFletch said:
This is so stupid it has to be parody, right?
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Not at all. Swift debated the point with a Green Party Remainer last week, and he came off by far the worse i can assure you.

Parody would be William Hague's suggestion that Brexit will contribute to the fragmentation of the western world. I might describe his remarks as ridiculous and baseless scaremongering, but then i gather from your posts that you approve of Cameron's tactics in that regard.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not at all. Swift debated the point with a Green Party Remainer last week, and he came off by far the worse i can assure you.

Parody would be the repeated insinuations of racism in this thread, or William Hague's suggestion that Brexit will contribute to the fragmentation of the western world.
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Its one of the daftest articles I've ever read it all rests on a series of increasingly ridiculous assumptions:

1) Britain is a force for good in the EU and its presence enables the EU to make progressive reforms.

If that was true (and its at best debatable if not an outright lie) then somehow that becomes:

2) By turning a blind eye to the problem we can pretend it doesn't exist and therefore we're all animal lovers isn't that great

I dont think this needs any explanation

3) By leaving the EU and refusing to trade with Spain we can be more effective in stopping bullfighting than a political union applying political pressure.

Doesnt even begin to explain how apart from a throwaway line about trade which just simply doesnt stand up so Ill give the article the benefit of the doubt and assume that a stupid editor made a stupid headline out of a throwaway comment in the article.

4) Farmers want to leave the EU because they're being outcompeted by shady foreigners who dont follow the rules.

Could not be further from the truth, the EUs agricultural subsidies are a huge boost to UK farmers and the EU spends more on agriculture than anything else.

The idea that the UK would be able to better improve the standard of animal welfare in the EU by being outside the EU is insane.

I thought you were better than to believe complete guff like that Nick.
 
This whole argument is a carbon copy of the Scottish Yes No referendum. Equally full of people who know little shouting loudly.

As with the Scottish Ref the leave or yes campaign is a positive one so it seems so much better, so muh easier to market change in our lifetime whilst also drawing on more nationalist leanings that stirs a bit of misplaced pride in some, they'll garner many votes from the ill informed, heart before heads.

I very much hope the outcome is the same, though the campaign to stay is so limp and sterile, I thought they would have learned the lesson by now. Hopefully common sense will still prevail.

From a Northern Irish perspective Brexit would be an absolute disaster.
 
Duafc said:
This whole argument is a carbon copy of the Scottish Yes No referendum. Equally full of people who know little shouting loudly.

As with the Scottish Ref the leave or yes campaign is a positive one so it seems so much better, so muh easier to market change in our lifetime whilst also drawing on more nationalist leanings that stirs a bit of misplaced pride in some, they'll garner many votes from the ill informed, heart before heads.

I very much hope the outcome is the same, though the campaign to stay is so limp and sterile, I thought they would have learned the lesson by now. Hopefully common sense will still prevail.

From a Northern Irish perspective Brexit would be an absolute disaster.
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Agreed, but I think the Scottish 'No' campaign was even worse than this one.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Its one of the daftest articles I've ever read it all rests on a series of increasingly ridiculous assumptions:

1) Britain is a force for good in the EU and its presence enables the EU to make progressive reforms.

If that was true (and its at best debatable if not an outright lie) then somehow that becomes:

2) By turning a blind eye to the problem we can pretend it doesn't exist and therefore we're all animal lovers isn't that great

I dont think this needs any explanation

3) By leaving the EU and refusing to trade with Spain we can be more effective in stopping bullfighting than a political union applying political pressure.

Doesnt even begin to explain how apart from a throwaway line about trade which just simply doesnt stand up so Ill give the article the benefit of the doubt and assume that a stupid editor made a stupid headline out of a throwaway comment in the article.

4) Farmers want to leave the EU because they're being outcompeted by shady foreigners who dont follow the rules.

Could not be further from the truth, the EUs agricultural subsidies are a huge boost to UK farmers and the EU spends more on agriculture than anything else.

The idea that the UK would be able to better improve the standard of animal welfare in the EU by being outside the EU is insane.

I thought you were better than to believe complete guff like that Nick.
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To be quite frank, i have expected better from you and other contributors throughout this debate. The manner in which some people have conducted themselves, under the noses i might add, has been such that i am consider an absence from the CE entirely.

It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that EU status quo restricts our ability to act on animal welfare, indeed it is a point made by right and left alike.

2) By turning a blind eye to the problem we can pretend it doesn't exist and therefore we're all animal lovers isn't that great

I dont think this needs any explanation
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Neither do i, for like Cameron you are unprepared to treat her concerns with the respect and seriousness they deserve.
 
Some unsavoury characters championing the leave campaign such as Hopkins and Farage have really put me off voting to leave.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
To be quite frank, i have expected better from you and other contributors throughout this debate. The manner in which some people have conducted themselves, under the noses i might add, has been such that i am consider an absence from the CE entirely.

It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that EU status quo restricts our ability to act on animal welfare, indeed it is a point made by right and left alike.



Neither do i, for like Cameron you are unprepared to treat her concerns with the respect and seriousness they deserve.
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Nick any argument that boils down to 'we can leave the EU and turn a blind eye to the problem and pretend that its gone away' must surely be seen as a nonsense, if it is presented as a solution.

If you're happy with that then fine, but dont pretend like its actually a solution to the issue in question and not just a handwashing 'well its nothing to do with me' attitude.

I also really, and this is not the first time I've accused you of this I don't think, struggle to think that you actually care. I've never seen you post about animal welfare or show any interest in farming practices. It's just a convenient stick to beat the EU with (it also completely undermines the argument that the UK should leave the EU to regain control if on the other hand you argue that the EU is so ineffective that it can't enforce its laws, which one is it?) if the EU had a flawless track record on animal welfare (and actually I would argue the record of the EU is not at all bad) would it sway you to vote for remain? I doubt it.

But even assuming that the EU restricts our ability to ensure animal welfare in the UK thats not the issue I have real problems with. Its the tenuous assumption that without the benevolent voice of the UK in EU (because UKIP MEPs are noted for their progressive views on the world) the EU would somehow improve its agricultural practices because of?

Im not arguing that the issue is not serious Im arguing that pretending its not happening and walking away from it is not a solution to the problem.

Besides, even assuming Brexits wildest dreams for a trade deal come true, any EU trade deal would make an absolute mockery of the entire basis of the argument. Nothing would change on that front, except for the fact that Britain would lose its voice.

Moreover, aren't you a little bit worried that the crux of the argument boils down to 'UK MEPs fight to bring EU up to scratch, only for UK farmers to be screwed over by foreigners who don't pay attention to the rules and kill British lambs' is, at best, a little too patronisingly, chest beatingly nationalistic?
 
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As someone who has changed their mind on the issue a number of times I do think some in here are far too entrenched in their views that they're unwilling to consider any other perspective.

Immigration being the main issue which people are very black or white on.
 
Smores said:
As someone who has changed their mind on the issue a number of times I do think some in here are far too entrenched in their views that they're unwilling to consider any other perspective.

Immigration being the main issue which people are very black or white on.
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I don't think I believe that. It's an important issue and people feel strongly about it hence why people get a bit prickly when their viewpoint is challenged by, at best, tenuous evidence. I'd like to think everybody, I know I certainly do, feels like they could be dissuaded from their views, no matter how vociferous they are about them, if presented with coherent and stringent arguments against them. If thats not the case, then whats the point of all of this?
 
Smores said:
As someone who has changed their mind on the issue a number of times I do think some in here are far too entrenched in their views that they're unwilling to consider any other perspective.

Immigration being the main issue which people are very black or white on.
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literally in the case of your bongo bongo land ukippers
 
I presume if I registered this morning it would still count now? Or do I need to re-register?
 
NinjaFletch said:
I don't think I believe that. It's an important issue and people feel strongly about it hence why people get a bit prickly when their viewpoint is challenged by, at best, tenuous evidence. I'd like to think everybody, I know I certainly do, feels like they could be dissuaded from their views, no matter how vociferous they are about them, if presented with coherent and stringent arguments against them. If thats not the case, then whats the point of all of this?
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The problem with that is for most people I speak to they're voting leave not because of a well constructed argument backed by fact but because of ideals.

Having control of our own borders is a fair ideal to hold, you can chuck out numbers left and right centre saying it won't make much difference or they contribute more but it doesn't erode the principle of self control. I'm for immigration, it's not an issue to me yet I always feel if people felt that the goverment had control it would reduce the fears some have.

EU imposed rules is another one. Like feck do I want the tories to have free reign but I'm not going to argue against someone saying they feel we should have sovereignty, it's a fair point. Whether the claims of EU imposed rule are overblown or not it's still a valid point.

Challenging facts and figures is the right thing to do but I hope people aren't quite this dismissive of the argument for leave when they try to convince family and friends. "You're an idiot for comprehending leave" doesn't quite win votes.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not at all. Swift debated the point with a Green Party Remainer last week, and he came off by far the worse i can assure you.

Parody would be William Hague's suggestion that Brexit will contribute to the fragmentation of the western world. I might describe his remarks as ridiculous and baseless scaremongering, but then i gather from your posts that you approve of Cameron's tactics in that regard.
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UK animal welfare laws will be rendered useless whenever a trade treaty comes into force: there are a few UK mega-dairies and huge pig farms already, expect more if you want to compete with the US.


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But we would have the option of refusing to trade with countries that didn’t meet our welfare standards, thus encouraging a better standard of welfare everywhere, not just at home.
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Lol, let's stop trading with the US since they treat animals badly. And while I'm in my utopian dreamland, everyone voluntarily gives up meat too.
 
Smores said:
The problem with that is for most people I speak to they're voting leave not because of a well constructed argument backed by fact but because of ideals.

Having control of our own borders is a fair ideal to hold, you can chuck out numbers left and right centre saying it won't make much difference or they contribute more but it doesn't erode the principle of self control. I'm for immigration, it's not an issue to me yet I always feel if people felt that the goverment had control it would reduce the fears some have.

EU imposed rules is another one. Like feck do I want the tories to have free reign but I'm not going to argue against someone saying they feel we should have sovereignty, it's a fair point. Whether the claims of EU imposed rule are overblown or not it's still a valid point.

Challenging facts and figures is the right thing to do but I hope people aren't quite this dismissive of the argument for leave when they try to convince family and friends. "You're an idiot for comprehending leave" doesn't quite win votes.
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I agree with all your points - you argue the facts and you may as well talk to a brick wall - if someone doesn't want to accept the facts, they won't.
Brexit have no facts or plan whatsoever so how do you argue against an ideal.

As I see it there are 3 main points, immigration, trade/finance and sovereignty/laws etc.

Immigration will change little one way or another but you get the impression that suddenly all the borders will be closed and the immigrants chucked out
Trade/finance - an enormous amount of data has been furnished but completely dismissed because the Uk is the Uk and everyone will want to trade with the UK.
Sovereignty, of course the UK should have its identity, totally agree with this, but all the other countries in the EU all do, why doesn't the UK . No USE is going to exist yet Brexit accuse Remain of scaremongering. Each country have their own regulations and the opposite is untrue.

Most Uk people have little experience of the real EU, going on holiday to Benidorm, staying in the hotel for 2 weeks by the pool does not mean you know anything about Spain.

You discuss with intelligent people about the 3 points and even they will say it's not about that point, it's about the next point , not about that an move onto the next point and go around in circles because they have an agenda, probably something to do with the Tories or the Labour Party or Cameron or Johnson - but this vote is not about the UK government.

Then you have people who can't possibly understand these points, why should they , they just get taken in by the person who says he's going to give them this that and the other.
But these are the majority of the people who are going to decide the future of the UK.

The family I have in the Uk I believe will mainly vote Leave, they are not stupid but endless posts on Facebook saying we're getting our borders back, we'll be better off financially outside the EU, we didn't fight WW2 to let the Germans rule us, this is typical of what's going on.
How do you make someone understand about tariffs, trade agreements, immigration policy and the legal side.

Further to that I've had enough arguments on here about this and don't want to cause a massive row with my family.
I get so frustrated that people are so blind and living in some fantasy world.
 
Waldner said:
I presume if I registered this morning it would still count now? Or do I need to re-register?
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FYI You still need to send an application form to your council if you want to vote by post or proxy. Even if you have registered.

I have to vote via proxy as i didnt get the postal ballot in time before i go away.
 
Looks like it was a mainly under thirties trying to register yesterday when the website crashed, according to some information that has been released. The government assume the younger generation are likely to vote remain so have managed to get the registration extended. I wonder if they would have done this if it was all over fifties trying to register.

Anyway looks likely to be a boost for remain if we are to believe the young will vote to stay sadly.
 
BringNaniBack said:
Looks like it was a mainly under thirties trying to register yesterday when the website crashed, according to some information that has been released. The government assume the younger generation are likely to vote remain so have managed to get the registration extended. I wonder if they would have done this if it was all over fifties trying to register.

Anyway looks likely to be a boost for remain if we are to believe the young will vote to stay sadly.
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I read a similar post on Facebook really criticising the extension... claiming it as bias because it's just giving young people more time to register. I can't get my head around that mindset at all. Surely anything that helps to ensure that more people of voting age actually use their democratic right to vote in this referendum can only be a good thing? Unless you're biased of course...
 
Smores said:
The problem with that is for most people I speak to they're voting leave not because of a well constructed argument backed by fact but because of ideals.

Having control of our own borders is a fair ideal to hold, you can chuck out numbers left and right centre saying it won't make much difference or they contribute more but it doesn't erode the principle of self control. I'm for immigration, it's not an issue to me yet I always feel if people felt that the goverment had control it would reduce the fears some have.

EU imposed rules is another one. Like feck do I want the tories to have free reign but I'm not going to argue against someone saying they feel we should have sovereignty, it's a fair point. Whether the claims of EU imposed rule are overblown or not it's still a valid point.

Challenging facts and figures is the right thing to do but I hope people aren't quite this dismissive of the argument for leave when they try to convince family and friends. "You're an idiot for comprehending leave" doesn't quite win votes.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I think you can make a logical and consistent argument for Brexit, in fact I'm sure you can, based on the issues you're talking about. It's not one I necessarily agree with, but I can understand how one might come to the conclusion. If I was to construct an argument for Brexit I'd focus on those issues: immigration, EU control, sovereignty. I think theres good arguments against all of those issues but yeah, thats the honest, open, and consistent argument.

I think a lot of the annoyance that you identify in this thread comes from what I would call the deceit of the Leave campaign, which has far eclipsed anything remain have done (although they've been bad in their own way), which is telling Brexiters they can have their cake, and they can eat it too. A failure to acknowledge that there are risks, there are drawbacks, and - in reality - things might get worse for most people is really disingenuous and downright dangerous, if people vote for Leave, just as if they vote for Remain, they should be able to do so as fully aware of the facts as possible and aware of the potential ramifications of their decision.

I don't know, I quite enjoy talking about the issue to people that have a coherent argument and respect where people are coming from. I'm just worried that a lot of people have picked up incoherent sound-bites, half-truths, and lies and we'll be dragged out for reasons that don't make sense.

ZupZup said:
I read a similar post on Facebook really criticising the extension... claiming it as bias because it's just giving young people more time to register. I can't get my head around that mindset at all. Surely anything that helps to ensure that more people of voting age actually use their democratic right to vote in this referendum can only be a good thing? Unless you're biased of course...
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Nah being anti-democratic only matters when it comes to the EU.
 
ZupZup said:
I read a similar post on Facebook really criticising the extension... claiming it as bias because it's just giving young people more time to register. I can't get my head around that mindset at all. Surely anything that helps to ensure that more people of voting age actually use their democratic right to vote in this referendum can only be a good thing? Unless you're biased of course...
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Oh, for crying out loud...

How dare people be allowed to vote, that would've been allowed to vote if the website hadn't fecked up.
 
ZupZup said:
I read a similar post on Facebook really criticising the extension... claiming it as bias because it's just giving young people more time to register. I can't get my head around that mindset at all. Surely anything that helps to ensure that more people of voting age actually use their democratic right to vote in this referendum can only be a good thing? Unless you're biased of course...
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Yes I am biased as I want us to leave the EU but I do agree everyone should be given the opportunity to vote. But there is a deadline for a reason and the frustration is that if it was the older population registering late who are more likely to vote leave than you can bet there wouldn't of been an extension.

These late comers obviously have little interest in the referendum and are probably going to vote for petty reasons due to being uninformed. If they actually cared about this issue they would have been registered long ago.
 
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