Thanks, but with the Tories being fairly evenly split and Labour at least outwardly Remain plus the Scots all Remain - where does it leave the Government or indeed the Opposition after the vote -whatever happens Remain or Leave - seems an untenable position for both - and chaos
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Thanks, but with the Tories being fairly evenly split and Labour at least outwardly Remain plus the Scots all Remain - where does it leave the Government or indeed the Opposition after the vote -whatever happens Remain or Leave - seems an untenable position for both - and chaos
Not really. Hopefully they'll just get on and negotiate the divorce settlement. No reason for any of them to be in an untenable position and certainly no reason for chaos.
I wouldn't say the OT incident will have made much difference but the people saying we would be more vulnerable outside the EU are talking a load of nonsense IMO. First of all, intelligence sharing is mainly done through bilateral agreements and through other organisations that have nothing do to with the EU, so that isn't going to stop if we leave the EU. Plus we may actually be safer if we leave in the sense that we can control our borders more effectively, rather than complete free movement of people that could easily have members of ISIS or whoever else finding their way here. In fact many experts have come out and said leaving the EU would actually help us improve security.
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Varoufakis was also worth listening to. It's easy to see why he was "not welcome" during Greece's negotiations with the EU. He's shown them up for what they are in this vid.
Just to help those who still don't understand the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship:
Dictatorship is a form of government where a country (or group of countries) is ruled by one person or political entity, and exercised through various mechanisms to ensure the entity's power remains strong.
Democracy is further defined as (a "government by the people; especially : rule of the majority (b "a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections."
Now which category do you reckon the EU fits into eh?
Good watch that. Farage made me laugh asking the President who he was and who had voted him in...but he was right to ask. Who is he and who voted him in? Can anyone here answer that?
Varoufakis was also worth listening to. It's easy to see why he was "not welcome" during Greece's negotiations with the EU. He's shown them up for what they are in this vid.
Just to help those who still don't understand the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship:
Dictatorship is a form of government where a country (or group of countries) is ruled by one person or political entity, and exercised through various mechanisms to ensure the entity's power remains strong.
Democracy is further defined as (a "government by the people; especially : rule of the majority (b "a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections."
Now which category do you reckon the EU fits into eh?
Seeing as Europe doesn't have a President its kind of hard to know which person (or even country) you're incorrectly referring to in order to answer your question.
You watched the vid then?
I'm not watching anything BringBackNani posts in defence of my brain cells. If you're willing to explain what you are erroneously calling the 'European President' I'm more than happy to explain how they're elected (or you could just google it yourself).
Also I have now watched the relevant video and I can see your confusion with your 'the president line' seeing as its deliberately spreading that misconception.
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Thought not!
Now point out where in my post I have referred to someone as the European President.
Do you want to know the answer to your question or not? Somewhat amusingly all three people who could be referred to as 'the President' are elected through a far more democratic system then our own PM. But hey, we're bastions of democracy and the EU are undemocratic dictators right?
Also I have now watched the relevant part of the video, and I can see why your 'the President' remark was made seeing as it deliberately spreads the very misconception that I'm talking about.
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Harsh. In defence of your ignorance is bliss mindset you mean.
There are 3 presidents in the EU and one presidency it seems:
- President of the European Council (since 1 December 2014, Donald Tusk)
- President of the European Commission (since 1 November 2014, Jean-Claude Juncker)
- Presidency of the Council of the European Union (since 1 January 2016, The Netherlands)
- President of the European Parliament (since 1 July 2014, Martin Schulz)
This one is actually a really well made video and is only 3 minutes long so i'm sure most people can spare the time to watch it.
I will stop spamming the thread now lol.
I will stop spamming the thread now lol.
Yes there are, a fact that anyone who has paid the slightest attention to the EU is well aware of. But now can you tell me which one of those positions the video incorrectly refers to as the European President?
I'll give you a clue, its an old video and he hasn't been 'European President' since 2014.
Yes, you've got it right at long last.
So back to my question, do you know who he is or not?
See above, I don't want to spoil BringBackNani's fun.
Also I'm really not sure how you don't know who he is, seeing as his appointment over Tony Blair made headlines over here and the Farage clip and quote is pretty famous.
Someone from Leave might actually tell some truth before the vote takes place, there's always hope.
That's a brilliant 3 mins video.
Oh I've seen the Farage clip many times before but I still have no clue who that chap is but I'm sure you'll tell me.
The video was made recently but that clip is old yes. It was Farage ranting at Herman Van Rompuy who was the first President of the European Council.
What's the point..."There's none so deaf as those that cannot hear"
Haaaaaaa!! I was just about to unwatch this thread because it's going around in circles
Don't worry, BringNaniBack googled it for you. I'll leave you to find out what the European Council is, what its President does, and why its incorrect to call him 'the president' (other than the fact that Donald Tusk a.k.a not the man in that video has held that role since 2014).
This is not to say that the EU does not have issues where it could improve, I think only the most fictional straw man the Leave Campaign have created believes that, but its always interesting to hear rants about how un-democratic the EU is from people that don't know how the EU works, don't know who any of the people involved in it are and seemingly care far less about the democratic deficit in our own country, that affects us by several orders of magnitude more than the EU's equivalent deficit, than they do about the EUs.
ou want to stay in
Look, I want out of the EU and I can't understand why on earth anyone in the UK...other than those who are foreign and those concerned about their profit margins......would want to stay in. You see things just the reverse. We should leave it there. Neither of us will change our view and neither of us want to change our view.
Patronising as I expected.
Look, I want out of the EU and I can't understand why on earth anyone in the UK...other than those who are foreign and those concerned about their profit margins......would want to stay in. You see things just the reverse. We should leave it there. Neither of us will change our view and neither of us want to change our view.
I don't think its patronising to tell you to do your own research before you debate the intricacies of the EU's governance and of democracy in the EU, but if it is perhaps that explains why you believe that statement to be true.
But on the point, do you actually care about democracy in the EU? I find it very hard to believe that you actually do and are rather just jumping on the perceived, or real, failings of the EU on this front because it conforms to your already formed opinion on the EU. If the EU did conform to your expectations in terms of democracy (although, hey, it actually might seeing as you don't seem to have done any research on this topic) would you want to stay in?
Wow how did you know I googled it? You're so clever.
One or the other most probably.
Let's face it, you saw an opportunity to hopefully score another cheap point by pulling me up on something, but it was your failure to watch the vid that was the issue, wasn't it. Desperate to score a point you jumped in too fast didn't you.
I don't need to do that much research because I've lived with it since 1973 .....I voted on not joining the EEC in the first place and I've watched it grow ever since. It's not gone any better, it's gone worse.
You mean the video that referred to Herman Van Rompuy as 'the European President' and led you to ask who 'the president' is?
Ok, you can pretend that you knew if you want, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me. But what was it you said?
How apt.
I would have thought the need to educate yourself on the issue of democracy in the EU before complaining about democracy in the EU would be obvious. But I'll ask again, do you actually care about this issue?
I was actually being genuine with my offer in the first place, all you would have needed to do was tell me which one you actually meant.
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I assumed that whoever answered my question wouldn't need telling which one because I assumed they would have watched the vid. Refusing to watch the vid is much the same as refusing to listen to the other side's views isn't it.You mean the video that referred to Herman Van Rompuy as 'the European President' and led you to ask who 'the president' is?
Ok, you can pretend that you knew if you want, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me. But what was it you said?
It is isn't it. (See my point above)
Ask me again? When did you ask me previously?
Well you would have known if you had watched the vid I was referring to before you replied.
Brexit can't even spell Farage correctly on their own video
That's a good question because it would depend on how in sinc with the larger democratic area you were and how successful that area was. Britain's problem with the EU is that we aren't that close to it and the EU's problem is that it is a disaster at almost everything it tries to do.
If you look at the general drift of EU policy and the world view it seems to hold why would it make sense to vote to stay in an organisation which is heading in the exact opposite direction to the UK seems to want to go?
So what are the policies then, taking people from Syria? How would this work in practice? What about the logistics?
Merkel's decision has nothing to do with the EU, nor do I personally it was a good idea even if it was based upon well intended humanitarian grounds.
I have a lot of criticism of the EU. But personally I think EU is in Europe's best interest and I'm 100% convinced it's in Britain's best interests to remain in the EU. I'm also convinced the migrant crisis would be far far worse if there was no cooperation between countries as is now possible within the EU.
The migrant crisis cannot be laid upon the EU. The EU did not cause the civil war in Syria, invade Iraq or topple the regime in Lybia. The EU did not cause the Palestinian question. The EU did not colonise large parts of the World and draw lines in the sand for country borders when it left.
So let me get this straight, you didn't know who he was? You didn't know what he did? You couldn't name his office? And you called him 'the' president based on a video that erroneously calls him the 'European President'? But you definitely knew he wasn't 'the' President and instead was a President (and an ex one at that). You'll have to forgive me for thinking that you're telling porkies.
If you would actually like to read up on the issue that you're apparently so bothered about we can have a proper debate on the matter. Until then, I see no point in arguing with a person who refuses to research into what they're arguing about because they claim to have no need (despite being ignorant of some pretty basic information, but whatever).
I think you're generalising a uniformity of opinion on the British public that doesn't exist. But yes, I find that argument a lot stronger than the idea that people actually care about the democratic process on this issue and this issue only. I guess we'll find out in June whether or not the UK wants to head in an opposite direction to the EU or not.
I think it's more a Franco-German thing than just a German thing. Though it is becoming clearer and clearer where the dominant power is.
As an example I would look at the wrangles over CAP. The UK is correct over this policy, vested interests in France and Germany will not accept it and block the UK and I think the wider EU interest really blatantly.
With regards to the leave policy on migrants, I'm sure whatever it is, it wouldn't work that much better than the EU one and if I vote for leave it won't be because of immigration.
The problem you have though Rams is that whatever the policy it would be a British one looking to British national interest which the EU does not do and for many that would be enough of a reason the vote leave.
There is no president of the EU as referred to in the video, a video that is a pile of tripe full and factually incorrect. The leave propaganda is getting more rediculous by the day.
The 'presidents' you refer to in your post are the chairman of each organization, just as you would have one within any committee or organization. The function of each president is purely for the administration and governance of each organization.
Under the kind of pressure the UK general public is under I'm not sure we will. It depends on how cowed we are by all the different threats from both sides.
What is up with you!
No, I didn't know the bloke's and I probably won't remember his name a week from now either because I have no need to remember it. I was merely asking if anyone recognised him from the vid and up you popped, feet first, trying the put downs. You're still trying them now. Get's nowhere does it so give it a rest for all our sakes.
What will always amaze me is that the UKIP have one seat out of 650 in the UK parliament and 22/73 seats as MEPs - at least Farage and co. will be voting themselves out of their cushy jobs
There is no president of the EU as referred to in the video, a video that is a pile of tripe full and factually incorrect. The leave propaganda is getting more rediculous by the day.
The 'presidents' you refer to in your post are the chairman of each organization, just as you would have one within any committee or organization. The function of each president is purely for the administration and governance of each organization.
And? It is the EU who has labeled them as Presidents not anyone else.
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