EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

[Don't Kill Bill]

Interestingly when the IMF bin the EU over its plans on the Greek debt crisis not a word.

He actually said that? It's already fallen 9% in the last 5 months and the UK haven't left yet.

However, as the UK imports much more than it exports , although the exports will be theoretically cheaper for customers, the imports will be more expensive and that doesn't take into account additional levies, duties and taxes. Maybe that's why he's not telling the truth again.

The UK manufacturing sector is in recession and the economic data has been poor. It isn't always about the referendum.

Historically the pound has traded much lower and much higher than it is now. That's the advantage of having your own currency it can float about when it needs to and I don't see why this is a bigger problem than the recent issues in the Euro Zone. From the manufacturers point of view its a bit of a godsend.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Interestingly when the IMF bin the EU over its plans on the Greek debt crisis not a word.


The UK manufacturing sector is in recession and the economic data has been poor. It isn't always about the referendum.

Historically the pound has traded much lower and much higher than it is now. That's the advantage of having your own currency it can float about when it needs to and I don't see why this is a bigger problem than the recent issues in the Euro Zone. From the manufacturers point of view its a bit of a godsend.

Currency experts are saying this and predicting a further drop if the Uk leaves
European data hasn't been good either but Euro has been gaining.
I think the UK should have it's own currency but as it imports more than it exports it will be a nett loss overall if the currency weakens

 

[Rams]

Lets put it this way... Does anybody honestly believe that if Britain had not been in the EU then the British economy would have been better off?! Or that British civilians would have greater civil liberties?!?! (Has any pro-Brexit poster in this thread actually ever bothered to read the European constitution?????)

If anybody is of the opinion that Britain should leave the EU, then fine. But please stop spouting out utter bullshit like Britain would have a better economy or civil liberties if Britain left the EU. (If civil liberties are anything to go by then the likes Johnson, Farrage, Goves and Duncan Smith would be the last ones I'd trust.)

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Lets put it this way... Does anybody honestly believe that if Britain had not been in the EU then the British economy would have been better off?! Or that British civilians would have greater civil liberties?!?! (Has any pro-Brexit poster in this thread actually ever bothered to read the European constitution?????)

If anybody is of the opinion that Britain should leave the EU, then fine. But please stop spouting out utter bullshit like Britain would have a better economy or civil liberties if Britain left the EU. (If civil liberties are anything to go by then the likes Johnson, Farrage, Goves and Duncan Smith would be the last ones I'd trust.)

1. Yes I do.

2. Yes I think they would because the EU isn't the bastion of civil liberties and its courts don't make better decisions than UK courts previously did.

3. The EU constitution does not represent the wishes of UK citizens so why be part of it. The UK population does not want political and economic union with Europe.

4. Of course the UK would be a better democracy because it would be governed by an entity we understand and can vote to change.

5. Personally I'd trust Erdogan less and the EU loves him.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Has any pro-Brexit poster in this thread actually ever bothered to read the European constitution?????)

The original, you mean, the one containing all of Brussels' wishlist? The Dutch, the lucky sods, got to give the Eurocrats the first bloody nose on that one.

If anybody is of the opinion that Britain should leave the EU, then fine. But please stop spouting out utter bullshit like Britain would have a better economy or civil liberties if Britain left the EU. (If civil liberties are anything to go by then the likes Johnson, Farrage, Goves and Duncan Smith would be the last ones I'd trust.)

The European cooperative we signed up to in the 70s is rather different from what we see before us today. Given the EU's economic flaws, democratic deficit and erratic record on human rights (take the recent deal with Turkey for example), yes i think we could make a go of it in this interconnected world of ours.

And if we can scotch the established order in the referendum, we'll move on and make TTIP the next target. We'll probably be off of Juncker's Christmas card list, but these things have to be borne for the greater good.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Currency experts are saying this and predicting a further drop if the Uk leaves
European data hasn't been good either but Euro has been gaining.
I think the UK should have it's own currency but as it imports more than it exports it will be a nett loss overall if the currency weakens

So lets get this straight. If Your currency is devalued at any point, that is the defining issue on the rights and wrongs of being in the EU ?

OK, so explain to me why Germany is in the EU then. It's a clear as it can possibly be that Euro's holds less value on international markets than the DMark would have.

Your argument amounts to the fact that Germany should leave the EU or its economy would be destroyed like you project the Uk's would be.

You are reaching and I wish you would try to understand that the UK isn't going to be destroyed either way. It has a choice to make between two valid ideas of the way forward.

Stop being an EU reactionary.

 

[Rams]

In a way I hope the UK leaves the EU if only to show what lies and pogwash people have been fed. I pity those who have fallen for it.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So lets get this straight. If Your currency is devalued at any point, that is the defining issue on the rights and wrongs of being in the EU ?

OK, so explain to me why Germany is in the EU then. It's a clear as it can possibly be that Euro's holds less value on international markets than the DMark would have.

Your argument amounts to the fact that Germany should leave the EU or its economy would be destroyed like you project the Uk's would be.

You are reaching and I wish you would try to understand that the UK isn't going to be destroyed either way. It has a choice to make between two valid ideas of the way forward.

Stop being an EU reactionary.

I didn't say that at all - the reason the pound is currently so weak is because of the possibility of the Uk might leave the EU. Everyone except Boris Johnson seems to understand this.
The DM & the FRF would probably hold more value but you're talking about nearly 20 years ago. I'm talking about now - of course other factors decide whether currencies fluctuate but currently the reason is mainly because of the threat of the Brexit that the pound is losing value and pretty sure the pound will go well under €1.20/£1 if it leaves which makes everything much more expensive on the balance of imports/exports which leads to the money that the Uk think they will save by not paying the EU will have more than disappeared

 

[Paul the Wolf]

In a way I hope the UK leaves the EU if only to show what lies and pogwash people have been fed. I pity those who have fallen for it.

Me too, I have nothing to gain either way so I am completely unbiased - now just disappointed how gullible some people can be

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I didn't say that at all - the reason the pound is currently so weak is because of the possibility of the Uk might leave the EU. Everyone except Boris Johnson seems to understand this.
The DM & the FRF would probably hold more value but you're talking about nearly 20 years ago. I'm talking about now - of course other factors decide whether currencies fluctuate but currently the reason is mainly because of the threat of the Brexit that the pound is losing value and pretty sure the pound will go well under €1.20/£1 if it leaves which makes everything much more expensive on the balance of imports/exports which leads to the money that the Uk think they will save by not paying the EU will have more than disappeared

Well Johnstone might well be right in that there are larger matters like the slack growth rate of the UK economy and the UK govts current account deficit which are playing on the exchange rate at the moment. It isn't clear how much the fall is due to the referendum and how much is due to the recent economic data which has taken a turn for the worse.

For the sake of the argument lets say the uncertainty is having an effect on the rate of exchange of Sterling but that has positives and negatives in itself, Cameron is responsible for the timing of the referendum which personally I would have been happier not to have. It is hardly a disaster,or a defining characteristic of the in/out debate since the Pound has been as low as almost parity with the Euro without a referendum on the cards.

If you use the reduction in the exchange rate as some kind of measure of the terrors of leaving then its a perfectly valid argument to question German and French entry into the Euro as they have devalued their currencies as a result of joining. Was that a disaster for France and Germany I don't think it was and I don't think a reduction is Sterling would be for the UK post a brexit vote either.

So in short you are wrong.

For my part I hope the UK makes the correct decision in June whether I vote that way or not I don't want to wish hard times on anyone life is tough enough without that kind of bollocks.

 

[Rams]

If you use the reduction in the exchange rate as some kind of measure of the terrors of leaving then its a perfectly valid argument to question German and French entry into the Euro as they have devalued their currencies as a result of joining. Was that a disaster for France and Germany I don't think it was and I don't don't think a reduction is Sterling would be for the UK post a brexit vote either.

So in short you are wrong.

That's just bull. The DM & FR were already part of the EMU a long before the introduction of the Euro.

 

[hubbuh]

I voted remain but I don't like or trust Lagarde/IMF and their influence. Sadly I don't trust the Tory government either, and the prospect of them having free reigns is even worse.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

That's just bull. The DM & FR were already part of the EMU a long before the introduction of the Euro.

You seem to have missed the point as Germany being in the EMU or not prior to the creation of the Euro is irrelevant to it.

 

[hubbuh]

Fwiw I appreciate the EU and everything it stands for, I just think its neoliberal agenda is fecking people (and entire countries) over. But that obviously comes back to the influence of the likes of Lagarde, the IMF and World Bank...

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Well Johnstone might well be right in that there are larger matters like the slack growth rate of the UK economy and the UK govts current account deficit which are playing on the exchange rate at the moment. It isn't clear how much the fall is due to the referendum and how much is due to the recent economic data which has taken a turn for the worse.

For the sake of the argument lets say the uncertainty is having an effect on the rate of exchange of Sterling but that has positives and negatives in itself, Cameron is responsible for the timing of the referendum which personally I would have been happier not to have. It is hardly a disaster,or a defining characteristic of the in/out debate since the Pound has been as low as almost parity with the Euro without a referendum on the cards.

If you use the reduction in the exchange rate as some kind of measure of the terrors of leaving then its a perfectly valid argument to question German and French entry into the Euro as they have devalued their currencies as a result of joining. Was that a disaster for France and Germany I don't think it was and I don't think a reduction is Sterling would be for the UK post a brexit vote either.

So in short you are wrong.

For my part I hope the UK makes the correct decision in June whether I vote that way or not I don't want to wish hard times on anyone life is tough enough without that kind of bollocks.

Good luck then - the devaluation is only a part of it, haven't mentioned the duties levies taxes and all the other disadvantages as discussed in earlier posts - am fraid that you are very very misguided

 

[Stanley Road]

Why is it that many EU folk now want a uk style referendum?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

They won't get one though as the EU doesn't pay much attention to what people want.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

In a way I hope the UK leaves the EU if only to show what lies and pogwash people have been fed. I pity those who have fallen for it.

Me too, I have nothing to gain either way so I am completely unbiased - now just disappointed how gullible some people can be

No, not in the least bit biased is our Paul.

With Remainer 'friends' like yourselves, why ever would we wish to leave? You are so magnanimous after all, and cognoscente of the EU's faults.

 

[Stanley Road]

That is true but they want the vote cos they are unhappy and want out. So you could argue that we are in a club that losts of people don't like, that makes total sense.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

No, not in the least bit biased is our Paul.

With Remainer 'friends' like yourselves, why ever would we wish to leave? You are so magnanimous after all, and aware of all the EU's faults.

I think he meant disinterested rather than unbiased.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Good luck then - the devaluation is only a part of it, haven't mentioned the duties levies taxes and all the other disadvantages as discussed in earlier posts - am fraid that you are very very misguided

Your baseless speculations, which amount to self-harm on the part of the European Union?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No, not in the least bit biased is our Paul.

With Remainer 'friends' like yourselves, why ever would we wish to leave? You are so magnanimous after all, and cognoscente of the EU's faults.

Why would I be biased, I 'm British who lives in France and will never live in the UK again - absolutely zero influence on my personal life so I can speak from a neutral point of view.
Obviously the EU has faults as does the UK parliament as did the Uk parliament before the EEC , how far do you want to go back in history to find a perfect institution to govern the people, it's never existed.
Imo the UK will make an enormous mistake but we've been through all these reasons so many times.

Whereas you do have personal interest where you said you may hope to buy a property in one of your earlier posts and with the value of property falling if the UK leave, it will thus be in your interest. What if the values continue to fall.

Your baseless speculations, which amount to self-harm on the part of the European Union?

If you seriously think there will be no ramifications from changing from a free trade area to deals based on duties which will apply when trading outside a free trade area then I think someone has their head in the sand

But in any case it's not me who is going to suffer or decide what will happen - just a logical prediction that the utopia which Brexiters expect does not exist

 

[BringNaniBack]

I voted remain but I don't like or trust Lagarde/IMF and their influence. Sadly I don't trust the Tory government either, and the prospect of them having free reigns is even worse.

That's why you vote leave and then we change our government. That's the whole point of this. We cant change the unelected EU politicians but we can remove our Tory Government once we leave the EU. Plus Cameron will likely have to resign if we leave anyway.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Why is it that many EU folk now want a uk style referendum?

Because its a corrupt failing system on the verge of collapse.

They won't get one though as the EU doesn't pay much attention to what people want.

Exactly. But if Britain votes leave the EU will probably have to allow others to also have a referendum and I can see many of them following us out the door.

 

[BringNaniBack]

Why would I be biased, I 'm British who lives in France and will never live in the UK again - absolutely zero influence on my personal life so I can speak from a neutral point of view.
Obviously the EU has faults as does the UK parliament as did the Uk parliament before the EEC , how far do you want to go back in history to find a perfect institution to govern the people, it's never existed.
Imo the UK will make an enormous mistake but we've been through all these reasons so many times.

Whereas you do have personal interest where you said you may hope to buy a property in one of your earlier posts and with the value of property falling if the UK leave, it will thus be in your interest. What if the values continue to fall.



If you seriously think there will be no ramifications from changing from a free trade area to deals based on duties which will apply when trading outside a free trade area then I think someone has their head in the sand

But in any case it's not me who is going to suffer or decide what will happen - just a logical prediction that the utopia which Brexiters expect does not exist

You are the most pro EU biased poster on here Paul if you hadn't noticed.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Your the most pro EU biased poster on here Paul if you hadn't noticed.

I think he discusses both sides, with his chosen side as his main focus of course.

Got any new videos you've made for us?

 

[BringNaniBack]

I think he discusses both sides, with his chosen side as his main focus of course.

Got any new videos you've made for us?

I didn't say he doesn't discuss both sides. He claims to be neutral but he is obviously pro EU.

You keep implying I had some sort of hand in making Brexit the Movie , sorry to disappoint you but I would not be capable of constructing such a well made film.

 

[711]

Why is it that many EU folk now want a uk style referendum?

But if Britain votes leave the EU will probably have to allow others to also have a referendum and I can see many of them following us out the door.

They won't get one though as the EU doesn't pay much attention to what people want.

I'm sure if enough French or German people want a referendum they will simply vote for a party that will give them one, just as the UK has done.
Why you think it's up to the EU who holds a referendum is beyond me, the example is taking place before your eyes.

 

[BringNaniBack]

I'm sure if enough French or German people want a referendum they will simply vote for a party that will give them one, just as the UK has done.

Why you think it's up to the EU who holds a referendum is beyond me, the example is taking place before your eyes.

That is true to be fair. It is quite difficult to get a party that will offer you a referendum though, the Tories only did it as they were forced into it by UKIP who had growing support so the Tories offered a referendum to try and increase their own support and win the election.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I didn't say he doesn't discuss both sides. He claims to be neutral but he is obviously pro EU.

You keep implying I had some sort of hand in making Brexit the Movie , sorry to disappoint you but I would not be capable of constructing such a well made film.

Oops sorry, have your mates made any more videos then

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You are the most pro EU biased poster on here Paul if you hadn't noticed.

One can only be biased if one has some incentive, reason that will benefit one personally.
My views are obviously that I'm pro EU for the UK but only in the sense that I believe it would be a better choice for the UK. If I thought it would be a good thing or benefit for the UK to leave the EU, I would say so.

 

[Phurry]

One can only be biased if one has some incentive, reason that will benefit one personally.
My views are obviously that I'm pro EU for the UK but only in the sense that I believe it would be a better choice for the UK. If I thought it would be a good thing or benefit for the UK to leave the EU, I would say so.

Well, if some of the claims offered up by remain supporters are true you'll be very much affected if you haven't become a French passport holder. Therefore, unless you're going to dismiss the claims by remain, you very much have a personal incentive.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Well, if some of the claims offered up by remain supporters are true you'll be very much affected if you haven't become a French passport holder. Therefore, unless you're going to dismiss the claims by remain, you very much have a personal incentive.

But that's a minor inconvenience which I've been considering for many years anyway long before the referendum was thought of. If the Uk leave it just means it makes the decision for me.

 

[Rams]

You seem to have missed the point as Germany being in the EMU or not prior to the creation of the Euro is irrelevant to it.

Errrr... If you don't understand or actually know what you're posting about then don't...

 

[sun_tzu]

I see Boris has been invoking Godwins law...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

 

[devilish]

I see Boris has been invoking Godwins law...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36295208

I wonder why honestly. Brexit is backed by some of the greatest illuminates and statesmen in modern history. Galloway, Farage, le pen, trump, putin....all it needs is the cookie monster and voldemort and they are done

 

[devilish]

It is quite clear that this Godwin forms part of the corporate and banking system aimed to relinquish the sovereignty of the British people. I am absolutely sure that everyone will bend over backwards so that the British will get a deal where they can cherry pick all the perks without having to give anythin in exchange. Rule britannia and all that

 

[GloryHunter07]

I wonder why honestly. Brexit is backed by some of the greatest illuminates and statesmen in modern history. Galloway, Farage, le pen, trump, putin....all it needs is the cookie monster and voldemort and they are done

 

[Rams]

Disgraceful comments by Boris, but what do you expect? The truth is that nobody in Europe wants a European superstate. The EU is not creating a European super state. Yet more lies by the leave campaign.

 

[Drifter]

Thought the world war 3 quotes were OTT but Boris as topped it . Would love him to become Tory leader.