It won't cease trading with the UK, but the UK will only be able to trade on terms far more unfavorable than countries or regions that have made concessions in terms of immigration or visa entry. Besides, without such concessions the London financial market will be in a right state.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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It won't cease trading with the UK, but the UK will only be able to trade on terms far more unfavorable than countries or regions that have made concessions in terms of immigration or visa entry. Besides, without such concessions the London financial market will be in a right state.
Yep, pretty much as I expected.
Here in Italy, we have the same problem, but Lega Nord (right wing party who like to get out of EU, and love Putin and Le Pen) doesn't have any power.
EU needs foreign workers to do the shit jobs which the native population don't want to do. And occasionally, the highly qualified workers who would probably work for cheaper than the native ones. Pretty sure that in every country, the immigration has been economically beneficial.
Spot on Bury
Yes, I agree, but I still hope to have more information than we have now. Obama's statements were a case in point, although if you take the view that he was just telling lies, or that he's bound to change his mind, then it won't matter, but some will take him on face value nonetheless.
I don't think Obama is lying he is just part of the as you were brigade. Its easier to carry on as we are than to make the break but that doesn't mean we wouldn't be right to make the break. I don't see him coming to the UK's aid if the whole thing goes tits up following a remain vote.
He does show Cameron up for the liar he is given that all his argument is exactly the same argument he would be using with or without the supposed renegotiation.
So does that mean Dave was wrong when he said he would support Brexit if he hadn't got the deal because all these trade issues would be exactly the same except Dave would be arguing for Brexit. Or was he just lying about needing the renegotiation because he would always have supported remain?
He does show Cameron up for the liar he is given that all his argument is exactly the same argument he would be using with or without the supposed renegotiation.
So does that mean Dave was wrong when he said he would support Brexit if he hadn't got the deal because all these trade issues would be exactly the same except Dave would be arguing for Brexit. Or was he just lying about needing the renegotiation because he would always have supported remain?
I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just putting my arguments why I think it would be a very unwise decision to leave the EU. I don't want to disrespect your opinion.
I intepretated your post that you mean leaving the EU will not affect border control.
Fair points. Cameron was certainly lying, the reason we're having a referendum in the first place is that he had to promise one to keep the Tory party together, and with him as leader of course. Obviously there are non-Tories that want out of the EU, but they are very much in the minority.
At least some Germans can see straight through Obamas real agenda with the EU:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/obama-germany-25-000-protest-ttip-trade-deal-hannover-n560956
Remainers completely disregard the TTIP argument.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/obama-germany-25-000-protest-ttip-trade-deal-hannover-n560956
Remainers completely disregard the TTIP argument.
Remainers aren't ignoring TTIP but since its contents are largely in the realm of speculation at the moment it's a moot point. Do the valiant Brexiteers really imagine any trade deal an independent UK (or more likely England) could cut with the US would be on better terms than TTIP though, especially given every one of our post war leader's historical tendancy to bend over and lube up whenever asking the US for anything.
TTIP is pretty much the one thing stopping me from being firmly in the remain camp. Really wish the EU would shine more light on it since they're not doing themselves any favours with their closed-doors approach to it.
Amended a little
Ah Galloway, Putin and Le Pen too....Wow
Its a shame that no one can actually speak to the dead. Brexiters would probably want to hear Hitler's, Pol Pot's and Stalin's opinion on this (none of them are Israelis so Galloway wouldn't mind a debate with them).
The lack of transparency is pissing people off both sides of the Pacific but I can't see it as an issue in the referendum since we'd have to cut our own deal with the US if we were to leave anyway and it would most likely be on identical if not worse terms. I also have zero faith in our politicians not signing trade deals that are potentially damaging to us as a nation just because it suits a few of their business connections. Just look at Cameron and Osborne bucking the EU demands for restrictions on Chinese steel imports and dumping to sign deals with the Chinese that effectively put the final nail in the coffin of our domestic steel industry and then imagine how bad the deals Johnson and Gove might sign us up to could be without the EU warning us not to.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ith-America-would-have-Churchill-beaming.html
I am pretty sure this is the British Trump and not the US one. Its hard to distinguish between the two, IQ level, hair style and all
Yeah that's a good point. I'd imagine Cameron would probably have resigned in the case of a Brexit, but I wouldn't trust his Tory successor any more than him with a transatlantic deal.
Considering he'd be a shoe-in for next PM if Cameron resigns in the case of a Brexit, this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Yeah no thanks, I'll take my chances with remaining and pray the EU buggers up the TTIP deal.
I do think we could get a better deal as an independent nation yes or at least one that protects the NHS. I would hope by that stage Cameron would be out the door with someone slightly more trust worthy doing the negotiations anyway. People that say they wouldn't trust the Tory Government to negotiate trade deals, I agree with you but that's not a valid reason to want to stay in the EU. "Oh the Tories are crap so lets just stick with the less crap EU who we cant even vote in or out" where is the sense in that. Leave the EU and we at least have some people power to lobby our government and get them out if we aren't happy, with the EU there is no chance of that. The EU is not a democracy this is a major problem and TTIP is a small example, it is just the beginning of many things that will be decided behind closed doors without us having a say if we remain in the EU.
You probably do think that, but given some of the other things you think it's hardly surprising. A Tory government that has veered even further to the right post Brexit standing up for the NHS in the face of private enterprise, your imagination's a hoot.
PS, we do have democratic representation in Europe but we choose to play silly buggers and elect tw@s like Farage for a bit of a laugh and to teach those Frogs and Huns a lesson, maybe if we took Europe a little more seriously we could help guide things in a direction that suits all of us.
Im not imagining the Tory Government will prevent the NHS form being privatised. I'm imagining we wont have a Tory government by the time it gets to that stage. If we stay in the EU we wont have a choice in the matter anyway and our democratic representation in the EU will never be listened to. We the people are powerless in the EU do you not see that.
That's incredibly optimistic.
The contents of any trade deal between the UK and anyone is fair game when the Brexit camp can't say exactly what the deals they are going to strike are going to be. Then when its pointed out that we can't be sure that this massive EU/US deal is any good it's a moot point because its contents are speculation. Pick an argument and stick with it I say.
I wonder if the Govt's report on how expensive Brexit would be has factored in how much better off the rest of the UK will be if we are not stuck subsidising Scotland?
I wouldn't bank on that.
Whilst it might be hard to believe, I'm not actually David Cameron and anything I have posted on Brexit is my own personal take on the information to hand as part of the ongoing debate, not part of some political campaign I'm running. That the Brexit campaign have not a single jot of evidence that they have these great trade deals that will return the UK to past glory is one of my reasons for not trusting them but far from the most important. That I'm not a great fan of TTIP (or at least what it is presently rumoured to contain) is not however an issue I see as weighting the in/out campaign one iota since any trade deal we sought with the US independently would be no better than TTIP. Where's the dichotomy in that reasoning?
I am undecided yes. I will probably go with remain. I don't like the EU at all but the leave arguments have been very week and any economic insecurity that will ensue could have serious implications for a number of people in my family (business owners) I would call it a better the devil you know consideration.
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Thought I'd catch up on the last few pages - good laugh
So Putin is a man to trust and is not corrupt in the least
Do the Brexiters realise the Dover/Calais UK/France border will be moved from Calais to Dover if the UK leaves the EU?
Who are the Brexiters expecting the UK to trade with afterwards?
So Putin is a man to trust and is not corrupt in the least
Do the Brexiters realise the Dover/Calais UK/France border will be moved from Calais to Dover if the UK leaves the EU?
Who are the Brexiters expecting the UK to trade with afterwards?
Bongo bongo land?
I've certainly heard UKIP mention them in the past
Thought I'd catch up on the last few pages - good laugh
So Putin is a man to trust and is not corrupt in the least
Do the Brexiters realise the Dover/Calais UK/France border will be moved from Calais to Dover if the UK leaves the EU?
Who are the Brexiters expecting the UK to trade with afterwards?
Do you know that the agreement is a bilateral one between the UK and France and has nothing to do with the EU. I mean France can go back on the deal if it wants but that would say everything about deals with the French.
According to Boris 73% of UK trade is with countries we have no free trade deals with. That bongo bongo land must be a huge market.
The deal was because the UK & France were both in the EU, if the UK leave that changes it a little don't you think
Well if Boris the clown says so it must be true
How has he worked that out? In 2014, 45% of our exports went to EU countries, and 53% of our imports came from them.
Wish someone from the Brexit crowd would name me one country, just one, outside Europe and the USA who the UK will have this fantastic trade deal with
This is a key point, we are a net consumer from the EU, who on earth could possibly believe they won't want to trade with us post brexit?
Yes under different less favourable conditions
That's isn't correct because it isn't mentioned in the terms and the driving force was keeping the tunnel running which I presume the French still want to happen?If France wants to use the UK leaving the EU to renege then it can do that but the UK has all its options open to respond since unilateral action by the French will be seen for what it is and the reason the French signed the deal in the first place was because it was in its own self interest to do so.
UK EU trade is 12% of UK GDP. Benefit of UK EU free trade is 60 odd billion pounds net per year to the EU. Honestly at this point Boris is making more sense than most of the Bremainer posters on here, who are you trying to convince with the stupid threats and is the prospect of the UK leaving that scary that you have to threaten massive overkill and self harming responses to make your case?
Not necessarily so
Don't know but I would guess that WTO covers large portions of that trade, in or out of the EU.
Not quite sure you understand what you're saying, the UK sign up to the EU and could decide to leave but it's the French who are at fault??
Boris is a complete buffoon - what threats
I'm British and live in France, so this xenophobic stance is a bit ridiculous.
I'm just sad there there maybe enough stupid people in the UK to actually commit a suicidal decision for my country of birth with no vision of what will happen and just some ridiculous xenophobic attitudes and disastrous financial advice.
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