Someone genuinely corrupt and dangerous, it figures.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Does anyone really trust any politician?
Well I don't know about the twin towers for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if he did do it. Yes that did give the excuse to go to Afghanistan but it wasn't justification for the Iraq war, they already had that with the "weapons of mass destruction" lie. They lie and create false flags to go to war to get what they want over and over again and everyone falls for it.
Yes his Middle East Policy was a disaster, an intentional disaster as is Obama's. That excuse is used with every new Government or President, that they are trying to clear up the mess left by the last group in power. When really they are just continuing the same secret agenda.
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If we continue with the principle of free movement as part of any trade deal with the EU following Brexit there would be no change to immigration levels as the current system would continue.
Following leaving the EU we introduce a visa process for EU nationals, this would give the UK more control of immigration.
For example we have a problem with non-EU nationals arranging shotgun marriages to EU nationals in order to claim family/private life in the UK. We also have a problem where EU countries grant citizenship to non-EU nationals knowing full well that they won't be staying in that country (for example Dutch Somalis). Both these would come under UK control if we were outside the EU as we could return them.
The French don't have responsibility for checking vehicles coming to the UK. Also, if the economic claims by the remain camp are remotely accurate, (which they don't appear to be when the figures are actually checked) and we are presented with this image of the UK returning to rationing in the wake of negative trade negotations, the UK would be a far less attractive destination for legal and illegal immigration.
Do you believe it will become more or less difficult to come to an arrangement with the French about border controls if the UK leaves the EU?
You believe everything Western media has told you to believe about Putin don't you. The US is far more corrupt and dangerous than Putin.
Can we keep this on the EU referendum @BringNaniBack and restrict your tinfoil hat theories about illuminati, global conspiracies and shape shifting lizards to a separate thread.
Greece: Could we temporarily reinstate our own currency?
Brussels/Berlin: No
Greece: We have to continue with the Euro and ECB even if it is harmful to us?
Brussels/Berlin: Of course, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.
Greece: These loan repayments, the demands...it is only making matters worse.
Brussels/Berlin: And? Your vulnerable citizens can live out a painful end for all we care, just so long as the illusion of a unified Eurozone is maintained. The individual is irrelevant don't you know, i'm sure we put that in the Lisbon Treaty somewhere...
Greece and migration, two of the greatest challenges to have confronted the EU and it has failed them both. The scales have now fallen from many a person's eyes though, which is a silver lining of sorts.
Seeing as you have already been asked about the former, kindly explain this nonsensical inclusion of national security?
How do expect to be able negotiate any kind of trade deal with the EU without any kind of deal regarding visa's for EU nationals? In fact, why do you think we have deals regarding visa's for countries such as Japan?
Do you honestly believe that border control will improve if we leave the EU??? On what basis do you believe that?
Personally, I think the UK will be more than able to cope if they leave the EU. But, the UK will be worse off in almost every aspect.
Neither, it will remain as it currently is, that border (particularly the tunnel) is set up very differently to others with the ceding of territory in the two countries to each other.
Despite the threat of economic punishment from the US following Brexit, the real reason the US wants the UK to stay in the EU is because they suspect that without the UK the EU would disintegrate (the growing nationalist movements in the EU already points to this happening). The US invested a lot in the EU as a foreign policy program during the Cold War, for it to collapse would be yet another failed foreign policy for the US, especially in light of Russian territorial ambitions today.
Sorry
. Its rather difficult though when you are trying to demonstrate the US and Obama's opinions on the EU should not be trusted and anything you say that isn't the norm is classed as a conspiracy.The likes of Merkel and Hollande should have more to say as the weeks go on. Obviously they will be biased for Remain, but they may give indication of their favoured negotiating position in the event of exit. Not just the EU of course, after Obama there's Australia, Canada, India, Japan, everywhere really. Maybe some of them will say they would look forward to swift and mutually beneficial deals with a lone UK, we'll have to wait and see.
Except the Greeks have voted to remain in the EU and keep the Euro. Revan's point was correct.
How is the UK going to improve border security without help from the continent? How is the UK going to negotiate any kind of trade deal with it's biggest export market without without making concessions to the EU about matters such as visa entries or immigration?
We might get a few comments, but it could potentially benefit them to stay fairly quiet. Any heavy intervention could potentially be portrayed as them trying to tell us what to do, and if the leave campaign play their cards right that could gain them some sympathy.
Right now, the leave campaign are orchestrating cock-up after cock-up and probably killing off some of the support they have. Might benefit Merkel and co to let them keep doing that.
Again I state that the World has become a very small place; what happens elsewhere will have a major impact to what happens in the UK.
fecking hell, you're incredible.
Not really I just don't believe what i'm told by the mainstream without questioning it. If you look deeper is rather obvious Putin is actually doing some good which is more than can be said for America.
True, they are politicians after all. I'd just like as much information as possible, and less of the 'could do's and 'might do's.
How many times do you have to be told you're in the wrong thread. Feck off.
These were intended as alternative scenarios -
If we continue with the principle of free movement as part of any trade deal with the EU following Brexit there would be no change to immigration levels as the current system would continue. There would be no change in the amount of control we have on immigration.
Following leaving the EU we introduce a visa process for EU nationals, this would give the UK more control of immigration. If this means a poorer trade deal with the EU we would still have more control of immigration.
There is no situation that would mean less control than what we have at present.
Outside the EU we would be doing full border checks on everyone (not just non-EU nationals at present).
Do you honestly believe that leaving the EU won't negatively impact border control at Calais or other ports across the continent?
Yeah, it's certainly not cut and dried. You could argue that membership of the EU exacerbated the boom and bust seen in the likes of Portugal and Spain and the subsequent ruinously high unemployment rates.
I don't know any more than you know the net figure which becomes undesirable and even if we exceeded that figure there is nothing we could do about it inside the EU with free movement.
46% of people in the UK currently think that immigration is the most important issue facing the UK at the moment. Following a Brexit vote which ever country or collection of countries tried to force free movement on the UK would be pushing shit up hill. It just wouldn't be politically do-able whatever the consequences to trade.
The EU would have 60 billion plus reasons to drop the stupid idea and no way of forcing the issue. Access to markets doesn't trump actual sales in those markets which benefits the EU over the UK.
Greece: Can we loan money for half a century because we don't like to work?
EU: Yes, as long as you pay them back.
Greece: Can we get in EU despite that we shouldn't be there on merit?
EU: Yes (this is actually to be blamed on EU).
Greece: Could you just forgive about those money you gave us. And while we're at it, can you give us some extra money to pay those hundreds of thousands of people who don't work but get wages anyway?
EU: Shut up and pay
It is very easy (and inaccurate) to make caricatures of deep things. But putting the Greece crisis solely on EU is very misleading. They are in a very bad position but it is mostly because of the bad economic policies that they had for half a century. It was going always to happen. For God sake, the average wage there was around the same as in Italy or Austria despite that they real economy was significantly worse. It wasn't going to continue forever that way and now blaming Germany for not giving them extra money to continue not working isn't right.
Could it have gone better? Surely, yes. But the blame is mainly in Greece, not in UFOs.
Once again, read what I said.
How on earth are you going to negotiate a trade deal with the EU if the UK introduces a Visa process for EU nationals that stops EU nationals from living and working in the UK, or without the UK making concessions regarding immigration numbers etc? Have you looked up what, for example, Switzerland have had to agree to in order to have a trade agreement with the EU?
You'd imagine that it'd just continue as is, withe the French authorities' apparent near-indifference to the ongoing existence of Sangatte.
I will stay thanks, just for you. Sorry for straying off the subject. None of what I have said relates to the EU at all.
By the way, why is immigration this big a problem in UK? What are the cons against it, especially considering that states like Germany have higher immigration and are doing better than UK?
You are misleading people if you write that leaving the EU will not make it more difficult for the UK to control its borders. Not only that, how will you stop immigration from Ireland to the UK? How will you stop immigration from Scotland to England when the Scots leave the Union to join the EU?
The World is a very very very small place you know.
Immigration is not necessary a bad thing at all, but that's another argument all together.
Some people have genuine grievances based on having a much tougher time getting work due to the levels. Others don't think we have enough service provisions/housing to cater for 300k people inbound every year. Others are just xenophobic.
And now you're putting words in my mouth. You clearly aren't interested in actually understanding the specific point I'm making, you just want to try and mangle it to make your own generalisation. Fine, you win, I'll not bother with this thread anymore.
The EU is not going to cease trading with the UK if the UK introduces visa requirements, in the same way that the rest of the world trades with the UK despite having visa requirements when their national come to the UK and vice versa. It doesn't stop EU nationals from living and working in the UK, only gives the UK some degree of control of who comes to the UK.
Immigration in itself certainly isn't a con. What people are mainly concerned about is that net migration figures typically result in a constant increase in immigrants year by year. In particular, some are worried about the increasing numbers of Muslims with concerns as to the possibility of said people not sharing British values, having particularly outdated views regarding issues like women/homosexuals etc.
I'd say I'm generally fine with immigrants myself. I'm pro-immigrant and have had many positive experiences, but being in Scotland I'm probably less affected than people in some other areas, and I can understand the worries that some people have in regards to a lack of control concerning EU migrants while we're in the EU. It's far from being a simple issue though, and has a number of complexities.
To be fair, net immigration is positive in almost every developed country. In fact, that might be necessary considering that Europe (without immigration) is getting older and smaller.
About Muslims, I don't see how that is a problem. Most of the people from EU aren't Muslims, so putting visa against EU (which I think will be terrible for UK tourism) won't solve it. And no-one in EU stops UK from not taking Muslims that aren't EU citizens.
To me (at least from this thread) it looks the same mentality as stopping foreign players to play in EPL that we occasionally hear from some loons in football threads.
What happens to be politically expedient now, could be very different in light of a Brexit. For the same motivation which drives their support of Remain at present, that of global stability, shall also favour an amicable settlement.
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Immigration is a big problem in the UK because the right wing media likes to tell the little Englunders that it's those foreigners coming over that stop them all having the top jobs and six figure salaries and keeping them stuck on welfare whilst on page 2 they tell them these migrants are all coming over to live in mansions and claim £1,00s every week in welfare which the good British reader is paying for in taxes. It's always been this way but where it was once the Irish, West Indians, Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis it's now Poles, Romanians and Hungarians.
As the Newtown Neurotics said in 1981 "They, they always try to blame it on the blacks. But it's really those in power that stab you in the back"
The truth is, we need net migration to get people who will do the jobs our own population consider beneath them and to fill the skills and training gaps we have. Migrants pay far, far more in tax in the UK than they claim in benefits and are net contributors to the UK's GDP but those who need to hear it refuse to listen.
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