Another thing, does anyobdy honestly believe that Britain's policies won't be dictaded by foreign intervention if Britain leaves the EU? Imagine this. Britain are trying to thrash out a trade deal with the EU. Does anybody honestly believe that that the EU won't make demands to Britain about, for example, imigration?!?!
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
- Thread starter 711
- Start date
- Status
So we have to take immigration in unsustainable and uncontrollable numbers whether we want too or not because otherwise the EU is going to do X or Y terrible thing to the UK.
Seems fair democratic and friendly to me, way to go EU.
Seems fair democratic and friendly to me, way to go EU.
no - we can trust people like farrage and boris to conquer the world and win us amazing trade deals beyond what the EU could ever do... in fact the only thing that will stop us exporting so much stuff that we become the new British empire is that we have not got enough skilled migrants coming here to actually design and make the stuff that the rest of the world so desperately wants to buy from us
The EU won't do anything unreasonable. But the EU will expect Britain to do their fair share, just as they expect countries like Norway and Switzerland to do their fair share. As like in any deal between any organization or state. The truth is that the Brexit campaign are selling a lie.
Of course, but too many people either don't care about that or actually believe the lies. It's also very much a case of "i'm alright Jack, feck everyone else" Just before Christmas one of my customers was moaning like feck that he got turned down when he applied to move to New Zealand with his family, yet he is always the loudest voice moaning about immigration to the UK. The irony was delicious, but he was just too thick to understand it.
So, in the end, it is just a xenophobic mentality. Like it has been from the very beginning of this campaign.
From the second page of the thread:
Couldn't have said it better.
But then, I guess that a lot of people would be happy to suffer economically, just to stop those foreigners getting their jobs.
I'm not sure that immigration is a benefit to the UK or not but there are a lot of people with fairly reasonable concerns about where all those who wish to come to the UK are going to live. As I said at the beginning of the thread if the majority of people in the UK don't want to accept the level of immigration proposed then they should not be forced to do so.
My post is a response to the one above it which says that if the UK votes out and a democratic majority of the country decides it doesn't want that level of immigration then those views should be ignored and the UK forced into accepting them.
I guess you just don't believe in democracy.
Amended a little
Or a further irony, you are holding up as an example a country has greater control over its immigration policy.
But the EU is by its very nature an unreasonable organisation, the only thing preventing it from preventing it from making another such demonstration with the UK is circumstance. Whilst they may have felt able to persecute the Greeks, we shall not be so obliging.
So if someone refers to immigration their objections to the EU are reduced to that one topic alone, and you can accuse the individual of being a xenophobe? That's perfectly fair.
Should i accuse Remainers of being grubby little servants to corporate interests then, and people who would gladly see the poor of Europe suffer to suit the whims of a Franco-German oriented project?
Again, if you think that leaving the EU will lower immigration then I think you are seriously misguided. Immigration will become the no. 1 bargaining tool with any trade deal with the U.K. and the EU or it's partners and will actually leave the UK in a situation where they have less say over immigration numbers. In fact, the U.K. will be in a very week negotiating position over so many matters it's not funny. Leaving the EU will be an absolute disaster, period!
I wouldn't mind so much if I wasn't responding to the post above mine about the EU forcing the UK to take as many people as it wants us to take even if the vote is to leave.Which seems unreasonable to me but hey that makes me a xenophobe who hates foreigners, it is getting a bit desperate it seems.
I would have responded to you sooner, only i thought it prudent to withdraw from the thread before i said something that i might regret to (to almost anyone at that point lol).
In answer to your question however...i base it upon the fact that many countries operate quite ably without the presence of an corrupt, continental government calling the shots. And with something like TTIP for instance, the effects will be felt in ways other than purely monetary. Obama and the EU are endorsing these ISDS', which i can't suppose to be good for the average voter in the long run. Moreover, we have only the word of callous Eurocrats that the NHS will not be irrevocably changed as a result. I could move on to other areas but i know that those are two are of particular resonance with people.
Last edited:
Unless the EU handles a Brexit with due care and finesse (quite unlike its usual self), it is likely to encourage further Eurozone crises and referenda in other countries. The very idea that the organisation will continue merrily on its is preposterous. Someone will have dared to say no to the people in Brussels, an elite so insensitive that they sought to ask for a budgetary increase while its members were introducing policies of austerity.
Oh dear, that's completely untrue. Every poor European country is better in EU than outside of it. That is the reason why they don't want to leave EU, and the reason why every other country in Europe wants to join it.
Poland made it clear, I think. For any country who wants to have free trading deals with EU, immigration rules must be the same as are for EU countries.
There is no EU country that wants to leave (bar France, if Le Pen wins which I think is quite unlikely). So no, UK leaving won't be the end of anything. Well, it might be the end of prosperity for UK but that is fine as long as foreigners are out.
The same can't be said for the Euro though.
That might be true, though I am not sure about it.
For example, if Greece/Portugal remained with their old money, no idea if it would have worked better or worse for them.
Regardless that is not an issue for UK considering that you opted to remain with pounds.
I don't think thats in question though; I'm not sure anyone thinks that the UK wouldn't be able to operate 'quite ably' outside of the EU. The debate is rather would the UK be better off outside of the EU as opposed to in it.
And I respect the argument that you dislike the EU enough that its worth the economic price (or at least risk) of leaving that you seem to be advocating here, I don't agree with it of course, but to me that seems a far more sensible argument than more or less outright lying about the figures in the hope that people will be duped into voting your way.
What ever happens to the EU, the very idea that leaving the EU will lead to the UK having more control over their affairs is preposterous. The fact is that the World has become very small place. Decisions taken elsewhere have a great impact to what happens in the UK. For example, a Brexit will mean LESS control for the UK over immigration, national security, etc.
Are you undecided?
How will Brexit lead to less control of Immigration?
No, they work for the same people.
Not worse than bush but not much better. Most people just haven't realized how bad he has been yet. As with Bush the realization of how corrupt they have been usually comes a little while after the presidency.
It helps my argument as TTIP will not benefit the UK, it will do the opposite and if we leave the EU we will most likely not be part of it. Therefore Obama does not want the second largest economy in the EU leaving and not being part of TTIP. That's one of the reasons he would be against Brexit.
I thought I made my arguments very clear in my posts for why I'm convinced Bexit will lead to less control for the UK over immigration.
(I have this picture in my head of French immigration officers standing idly on whilst they watch thousands of immigrants hide in lorries at the port of Calais.)
Yes pretty much and the second set of names you have mentioned are far me trustworthy. Other than Isis obviously.
Errr, that's basically what they do currently? It's the UKBF that does the vast majority of the active interdiction at the tunnel & ferry in Calais.
Thank you for illuminating us!
President Obama was a quite good president performing in arguably the most obstructive congress of all time in US.
But then being a right wing who wants to leave EU because of the immigrant coming there, and hating Obama...Not very surprising, I guess hating a part-Kenyan.
Amended a little
I would trust Putin before any American leader.
Thankfully that's just your opinion, and I would guess you are definitely in the minority thinking that. Saying he hasn't been much better than Bush is a ridiculous statement imo.
Immigrants coming to the UK is one of last reasons I want to leave the EU. I don't hate Obama, I hate what he and his puppet masters do the world and I couldn't care less if he is part Kenyan lol.
Errr... No! Thanks to rules agreed upon within the EU the French are obliged to take pro-active action. Hence the big feck-off immigration camp at Calais.
Read what I posted properly.
Yes I would likely be in the minority but that is usually the case with these things as people do not look below the surface. What Obama has done in the Middle East is terrible. Most of it has been to try and take out President Assad to get this pipeline from Saudi Arabia through Syria to Europe to try and stop our reliance on Gas from Russia. But no he has been there trying to defeat Isis
.The French do most of the work. Not the UKBF. The UKBF help out. The UKBF won't be helping out in case the UK leaves the EU...
Yes I would likely be in the minority but that is usually the case with these things as people do not look below the surface. What Obama has done in the Middle East is terrible. Most of it has been to try and take out President Assad to get this pipeline from Saudi Arabia through Syria to Europe to try and stop our reliance on Gas from Russia. But no he has been there trying to defeat Isis
Aren't you one of those loons that believes Bush flew a couple of airliners into the World Trade centre to give him justification for invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
Anyway, Bush's ME foreign policy was an absolute disaster. Most of Obama's mistakes are to do with trying to clean up the mess that Bush made in the first place.
What's a desirable number for net immigration, though? I posted the figures a few days back and NON-EU net migration to the UK has been at the 200k level for about 20 years now. And if we left the EU, I'd take a bet on that number going up rather than down, because we'd still take in a large number of skilled workers from EU countries.
So even aside from how the EU would react to our leaving, even aside from whether we'd have to accept free movement if we wanted back into the single market, immigration is an issue that is FAR greater than the EU. If we leave, our net figures in are still going to be massive, and anyone thinking this vote will solve the issue is destined for disappointment one way or the other.
Yes I would likely be in the minority but that is usually the case with these things as people do not look below the surface. What Obama has done in the Middle East is terrible. Most of it has been to try and take out President Assad to get this pipeline from Saudi Arabia through Syria to Europe to try and stop our reliance on Gas from Russia. But no he has been there trying to defeat Isis
indeed.Anyway, that's derailing this thread and there's plenty of threads about the Middle East or the war in Syria or The US presidency.
I go through there 6-8 times a year, have done so for the last 20 years, not once have I had any interaction with the French border officials beyond waving my passport at a, usually unoccupied, window. You almost never see them pull a vehicle for inspection, commercial or private, whereas the "barns" used by the UKBF are permanently active.
Anyway, that's derailing this thread and there's plenty of threads about the Middle East or the war in Syria or The US presidency.
Yes fair enough but my point is people should take whatever Obama says with a pinch of salt.
- Status