Yeah it really is, wasn't being entirely serious
Raises a good point though, allegiances here do vary a lot with geography and that does affect a lot of these "a lot of the people I talk to..." reports. Here's a handy map:
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Raises a good point though, allegiances here do vary a lot with geography and that does affect a lot of these "a lot of the people I talk to..." reports. Here's a handy map:
Loving this argument I keep hearing on FB about how Remain voters are just doing well for themselves and don't want to risk it trying to help those less fortunate. Quite apart from the incredible irony there, just speaking for myself I'd be loads better off if the pound nosedived long term. Despite this, the idea of blowing up the British economy for the foreseeable future is still incredibly fecking stupid, and I say that as an English emigrant who was wise enough to feck off before 50% +-5% of British voters apparently lost their collective minds.
Thanks. Strange one with the knock-on effects it could have in Scotland particularly with Sturgeon not ruling out a second indy referendum.
Yeah it really is, wasn't being entirely serious
Raises a good point though, allegiances here do vary a lot with geography and that does affect a lot of these "a lot of the people I talk to..." reports. Here's a handy map:
That's a fascinating map. Done by parliamentary constituency I assume?
You can see the influence of Cambridge clearly. What surprised me was seeing Southampton as leave and Winchester as remain (at least to that degree). Also, I assume the remain constituency in Cumbria is Tim Farron's seat of Westmoreland?
I was thinking about volunteering for the Remain campaign up here but when I went to have a look the closest was Dundee and I don't think there was a single even planned for the whole of Fife. Admittedly St. Andrews is a small place, and its student population means that its probably amongst the strongest Remain strongholds in the country, but still found it a bit odd.
Couple more things from YouGov (thanks Ubik)
Link: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model/
Link: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/yougov-referendum-model/
I think legal challenges to the result will be inevitable. I am going for remain to win by less than half a percent. Perhaps just by 30,000 votes or so.
Whatever happens the damage has been done, a country will be divided regardless.
Yup on all counts. Also emphasises another thing, relevant to the geographical anecdotes- England is almost certain to vote Leave, and Remain winning is basically dependent on margins in NI and Scotland, and Wales to a lesser extent. So if you're in England outside a major city/University town, it more than likely is going to be more open to leaving.
Here's the final projection (EDIT - actually still provisional, but I don't believe there are any more polls to be released) from Number Cruncher Politics, the guy that came out the day before the GE last year to say that polls had got it wrong and the Tories would win by 6+ points:
Forecast is the same as mine, though had been down to a mere two points as recently as a few days ago. Still, rather they had that result than the opposite.
Despite press claims that South Wales has gone over to UKIP-think in recent times, most people I ask are voting Remain.
SteveJ,
News at Ten,
Wales-under-Smog
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Am still undecided! I think
- UK would benefit from being more 'globally connected' that 'Euro connected' in the next 20 years (digital globalisation will diminish any border within 5 years),
- welcome migrants but according to our quota needs and not majority Euro's who may not optimally benefit our economy.
- Planet will be dominated by US, Russia, China, India & Germany for next 20 years.
Can anyone tell me objectively which of Remain or Leave leaves UK in best situation over next 10 years for the above outcomes?
- UK would benefit from being more 'globally connected' that 'Euro connected' in the next 20 years (digital globalisation will diminish any border within 5 years),
- welcome migrants but according to our quota needs and not majority Euro's who may not optimally benefit our economy.
- Planet will be dominated by US, Russia, China, India & Germany for next 20 years.
Can anyone tell me objectively which of Remain or Leave leaves UK in best situation over next 10 years for the above outcomes?
Boris Johnson admits he wrote articles for both Remain and Leave:
Thanks. Welsh poster on RAWK said there's "Vote Leave" signs all over South Wales.Do you not think that a large portion of the leave campaign isn't of this view? Farange and his mob plus the even loonier fringe are predominately all of those things and often openly proud of it.
The poll on this thread have any validity?
Nah, we'll be fine. I never really get this argument: people are going to always be divided on certain issues. It's what keeps politics going. The referendum itself hasn't massively heightened, or negated, divide regarding the EU. People would still argue about it anyway.
So the Uk would benefit from being 'more globally connected', while voting to leave the world's largest common market? The US-EU trade deal update has been under negotiation since 1998 and the UK-Canada one has been rumbling on for seven years.
Staggers me that people think we'll be able to set loads of these deals up with China, India or whoever in two years if we leave.
The no borders arguments is bollocks. Tariffs aren't going anywhere sadly.
Politics polls on here don't tend to reflect reality. GE one had most voting Labour. From polls I've looked at only RAWK and us really have Remain so far ahead. A forum I browse thats way bigger than the caf (over 80M posts on various stuff, mostly TV) is pretty much flipped around and about 2/3rds vote Leave on their polls.
have to agree with, this the abuse been hurled by both sides in this debate has been disgusting....people saying if you vote out your a racist, if you vote in your not British...... its just been disgusting!
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Can the UK negotiate its own deals with India and China, whilst being in the EU?
Not a dominant proportion, no. The majority of Leavers, what could be thought to be representative, are not budding members of Britain First and the BNP.
UKIP are not simply the recipients of anti-immigrant sentiment, both they and Leave have been an outlet for communities forgotten by the mainstream parties.
While i do subscribe the to notion that this campaign has been damaging for the democratic process, the divide between the political class and the voter could grow the most. It shall be worse if Remain win, but present in a Brexit scenario too. I can't suppose that any f the parties with MPs in the Commons will walk away from this unscathed.
And while a win for Remain might delay a second Scottish referendum, i would expect English devolution to be the next focus for anti-establishment sentiment. There'll be fertile ground too, what with the complacency of Labour, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives.
I just watched the BBC debate. I don't think I have ever disliked a politician more than Priti Patel.
Also it seemed like Andrea was trying to hypnotise people into voting leave. I'm pretty sure she said the phrase 'take back control by voting leave on Thursday' about 40 times. Like a complete caricature of a politician.
Sadiq came across as passionate and well versed, Boris was slimey, Ruth Davidson was impressive and the TUC woman came across as completely hysterical.
Also it seemed like Andrea was trying to hypnotise people into voting leave. I'm pretty sure she said the phrase 'take back control by voting leave on Thursday' about 40 times. Like a complete caricature of a politician.
Sadiq came across as passionate and well versed, Boris was slimey, Ruth Davidson was impressive and the TUC woman came across as completely hysterical.
Yep, agree, John Barnes comes across very well indeed. Agree with him on what he says.
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I think we're pretty fecked.
Anyone know when we'll know the results of the referendum?
I had somebody saying that WW3 was going to start if we leave.
They've been saying "To close to call" a lot on the tv so one camp is going to win by a country mile
I could see the point in leaving if the campaign had a coherent strategy instead of 'don't worry we'll trade with China and Brazil'.
The vast majority of people that I know voting to leave are doing so simply because of the influx of EU migrants - without looking at the bigger picture (or knowing feck all about the implications that leaving the EU may have, outside of controlling immigration).
Too big a risk economically for me, so I'll be voting to keep the status quo and remain.
The vast majority of people that I know voting to leave are doing so simply because of the influx of EU migrants - without looking at the bigger picture (or knowing feck all about the implications that leaving the EU may have, outside of controlling immigration).
Too big a risk economically for me, so I'll be voting to keep the status quo and remain.
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:
You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.
You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.
You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.
You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.
Read this post recently. May interest people.
I have gone long Barclays, you cnuts better vote remain now.
You do know that members of the EEA have to allow freedom of movement of eu people don't you?
Literally half of this post is redundant. Not voting to Geographically leave Europe?! No feckin shit.
Also for a "facts" post it still contains bullshit... our economy won't be better off by billions, that's straight nonsense.
I'll pretty sure farming will be effected, as it's one of our market that the EU deals with the most... the rebate doesn't effect the actual trade that comes to our farmers.
And as for "now we control the money we pay to the EU" ... indeed we will... if we choose to no longer trade with the EU. Which the Leave campaign has said we want to still do... and if we do, we'll have to pay close to what we do anyway for the privilege.
Also, this makes it sound like vast sums of our budget. It's not, it is literally less then 2%
And you ARE voting to keep people out. That's half the bloody Leave campaign. If you don't think immigration from the EU will become tight as hell if we leave you're living in a fantasy world.
The weather is looking horrible today. 
The weather is looking horrible today.
Pathetic Fallacy, after all it is Independence Day
Brighton in very top end of Remain apparently. Was going to not bother (couldn't split my dislike of leading figures on both sides at the beginning). But choosing (some) words carefully, a number of elements of LEAVE are just horrible. Johnson is a self promoting fecking bellend with some properly nasty allies. REMAIN for me. It also suits ME best, if things stay the same (no guarantee they will, change of some kind does tend to happen)
Excellent point earlier about LEAVE having the easier campaign, can say pretty much anything, 'take back control' means what exactly? Quasi-racist island fortress that everybody still wants to trade with cos we're just so Great. Doesn't look like a persisting future to me.
Think it'll be close, lot of people are rightly feeling disenfranchised out there, motivation to throw in a protest vote against the prevailing status quo is high I think. Not sure that replacing it/them with something worse is a brilliant answer.
Excellent point earlier about LEAVE having the easier campaign, can say pretty much anything, 'take back control' means what exactly? Quasi-racist island fortress that everybody still wants to trade with cos we're just so Great. Doesn't look like a persisting future to me.
Think it'll be close, lot of people are rightly feeling disenfranchised out there, motivation to throw in a protest vote against the prevailing status quo is high I think. Not sure that replacing it/them with something worse is a brilliant answer.
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I've had to do a lot of motorway driving the last couple of weeks - vote leave ads are absolutely everywhere. Seen just one or two adverts for vote remain.
I wonder who are the EU experts from the leave camp. Boris and Gove have never worked in Brussels. Farage is part of a party who is the most absent from votes in the European parliament. Also what is this obsession to take photos in front of a pint? Is alcoholism celebrated by the Leave camp?
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