EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

[Damien]

Rio weighs in.

That seems to have gone down like a lead balloon

Spoiler

Have much respect for you Rio......However for this time I would not agree with you.....For myself personally who struggles to make ends meet week to week with crap wages and 4 kids something needs to give. With all due respect Rio you don't have the same worries as the majority of the population. Seems to me that all these high profile people jumping on the remain band wagon also don't have the same issues as the rest of us.Im out

Rio's basically suggesting that anyone who votes leave is racist. Judging by the comments on here, that's pretty much everyone. How much are you being paid to post this? Seriously?

What a very idealistic view on the whole thing, your first point was basically saying, "let's allow the EU to bully us into staying" - sounds fun. Your second point is only valid when all "teamplayers" are equal and have equal opportunity to contribute to the important matters, how many times has the UK vote on EU matters been vetoed or ignored? Third point - There is nothing racist about the leave campaign as a whole, and comparing people who want to focus the resources of their country onto their own people first to the average knuckle dragger making monkey noises in a football crowd is ludicrous. I'm voting leave.

Sadly you seem to have forgotten where you came from and are quoting the usual racist stuff that all the people in this country with loads of money do. I have too rely on the NHS unlike you who can afford private care and if we stay in the EU it will collapse under the pressures being placed upon it.

Stay out politics Rio you have that much money it doesn't effect you!

and a reply from BNB:

It's good that we are able to vote....but voting is just a front.....the people in power will have already made their decision

 

[Zarlak]

That seems to have gone down like a lead balloon

Spoiler

Have much respect for you Rio......However for this time I would not agree with you.....For myself personally who struggles to make ends meet week to week with crap wages and 4 kids something needs to give. With all due respect Rio you don't have the same worries as the majority of the population. Seems to me that all these high profile people jumping on the remain band wagon also don't have the same issues as the rest of us.Im out

Rio's basically suggesting that anyone who votes leave is racist. Judging by the comments on here, that's pretty much everyone. How much are you being paid to post this? Seriously?

What a very idealistic view on the whole thing, your first point was basically saying, "let's allow the EU to bully us into staying" - sounds fun. Your second point is only valid when all "teamplayers" are equal and have equal opportunity to contribute to the important matters, how many times has the UK vote on EU matters been vetoed or ignored? Third point - There is nothing racist about the leave campaign as a whole, and comparing people who want to focus the resources of their country onto their own people first to the average knuckle dragger making monkey noises in a football crowd is ludicrous. I'm voting leave.

and a reply from BNB:

These people are idiots. 'I do not agree with you, I struggle weekly and you don't. Therefore I am going to vote for even more economic hardship'.

 

[Rado_N]

That seems to have gone down like a lead balloon

Spoiler

Have much respect for you Rio......However for this time I would not agree with you.....For myself personally who struggles to make ends meet week to week with crap wages and 4 kids something needs to give. With all due respect Rio you don't have the same worries as the majority of the population. Seems to me that all these high profile people jumping on the remain band wagon also don't have the same issues as the rest of us.Im out

Rio's basically suggesting that anyone who votes leave is racist. Judging by the comments on here, that's pretty much everyone. How much are you being paid to post this? Seriously?

What a very idealistic view on the whole thing, your first point was basically saying, "let's allow the EU to bully us into staying" - sounds fun. Your second point is only valid when all "teamplayers" are equal and have equal opportunity to contribute to the important matters, how many times has the UK vote on EU matters been vetoed or ignored? Third point - There is nothing racist about the leave campaign as a whole, and comparing people who want to focus the resources of their country onto their own people first to the average knuckle dragger making monkey noises in a football crowd is ludicrous. I'm voting leave.

Sadly you seem to have forgotten where you came from and are quoting the usual racist stuff that all the people in this country with loads of money do. I have too rely on the NHS unlike you who can afford private care and if we stay in the EU it will collapse under the pressures being placed upon it.

Stay out politics Rio you have that much money it doesn't effect you!

That just some random Facebook feckwit?

 

[Ubik]

Not sure I quite agree. Even including the referendum, the person who's come out of 2016 the worst (in terms of their reputation) has to be Osborne, aka the main rival for Boris/ Gove in the Tory Leadership contest. And it is the Conservative membership who vote for the next Leader, surely also meaning the next Prime Minister. And that's a tiny, tiny proportion of people, less than 150,000, the majority of whom are older, more right-wing, and more likely to vote out than the general population. No matter if Leave loses on Thursday, Boris has positioned himself as the leading alternative figure to Cameron/ Osborne, and has to be seen as our most likely next PM as a result...

Urgh.

Another thing to take account of is the way they run their leadership contest, where it's the MPs that whittle it down to the final two contenders before it goes to the members. Portillo was blocked when he ran by a lot of tactical voting from Tory MPs that he'd annoyed, and I wouldn't rule out a similar thing happening with Boris.

I also think the likeliest person on the Remain side to make it to the final membership ballot is May, who's been low-key enough during the campaign that she might not have completely alienated herself. Osborne I think knows he's a busted flush at this point.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Where I am everyone seems to be voting leave!

Some of the crap I have heard as to their reasons why makes you worry for democracy.

 

[Damien]

That just some random Facebook feckwit?

Six different replies. Majority seem to agree that Rio shouldn't be saying anything though as he's rich.

 

[Zarlak]

Six different replies. Majority seem to agree that Rio shouldn't be saying anything though as he's rich.

Can't really take anything from it, it's like reading YouTube comments. Only those who feel the need to shout will do so.

 

[Marching]

It's actually an interesting point that no ones been talking about. What happens to Gove, Johnson and Farage is remain wins?

Farage will carry on like a turd that won't flush, that much is obvious. But it seriously dents Johnson and Gove's credibility doesn't it? Going into this debate all of the Leave MP's (and I include IDS) had approval ratings probably best described as utterly abysmal and there's no chance that this campaign will have improved them, so surely a life on the back benches beckons if Remain wins?

Perfect.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Another thing to take account of is the way they run their leadership contest, where it's the MPs that whittle it down to the final two contenders before it goes to the members. Portillo was blocked when he ran by a lot of tactical voting from Tory MPs that he'd annoyed, and I wouldn't rule out a similar thing happening with Boris.

I also think the likeliest person on the Remain side to make it to the final membership ballot is May, who's been low-key enough during the campaign that she might not have completely alienated herself. Osborne I think knows he's a busted flush at this point.

If it's no Boris then what does that mean, Osborne/ May/ Javid v Gove?

 

[sun_tzu]

Just a thought but it could well be less than 3 in 10 people who vote for us to remain

the spread betting indicated approx 70% turn out with a small win for remain (by 5%-10%)
so actually if you think about it
Population of UK approx 65,000,000
Population registered and eligible to vote approx 45,000,000
expected turnout approx 70% would be 31,5000,000
Remain votes (52.5%)approx 16,537,500
Leave Votes (47.5%) approx 14,962,500
so basically it could come down to about 1.5 million votes
or to put it another way if you take 100 people 48 of them would not have voted, 27 vote remain and 25 vote leave

I'm not sure it will turn out quite that close but one things for sure I don't think the debate is going to stop on Friday as I'm sure whichever side looses will question the validity of the result if its close

 

[FlawlessThaw]

If it's no Boris then what does that mean, Osborne/ May/ Javid v Gove?

Urgh, it's pretty bad when someone like May is the best choice out of that lot. Were are the decent Tories who have some form of a heart out there? Goldsmith seemed like one of them till he fecked things up

 

[Rado_N]

Six different replies. Majority seem to agree that Rio shouldn't be saying anything though as he's rich.

But we should listen to Boris. Obviously.

 

[DOTA]

Calm down Dota, you know that's utter bollocks mate.

Exaggeration but they'd be gone pretty quickly if senior royals started offering views on matters like this.

 

[x42bn6]

Finance: We are one of the few net contributors to the EU (we give more than we get back). Brussells tells us what we must do with the money we get back. We are suffering austerity and need more control over our own money.

Or, we could, you know, not do austerity. At this point, it's a political ploy, rather than a financial necessity.

Trade: Many countries outside of Europe are expanding their economies (India, China and Brazil, among others) and would like to trade with us directly, rather than as part of he EU. Countries in the EU see us as vitally important trading partners. That won't change if we leave - but the deals will have to be renegotiated.

- China wants us to stay in: https://www.rt.com/uk/319488-china-eu-brexit-referendum/
- Indian businesses want us to stay: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/24/indian-business-leaders-speak-out-against-brexit

I have no idea what Brazil wants - I can't see any opinions.

Businesses don't like regulation. If the UK and the EU separate, it's not outlandish that they will have different sets of regulation, from trade tariffs to health and safety regulations. Businesses that sell, say, cars to the UK and EU under these circumstances would possibly need two sets of manufacturing processes to sell to two different markets, therefore driving up their costs. Businesses outside of the EU would therefore prefer Remain, to keep costs low and sales high.

Businesses that only trade with the UK may benefit, but that is a real niche, because any major trading activity will very likely have customers on the continent, too.

There's also the act of getting the trade deals done - it's a long-and-hard process. Doing one deal with the EU will always beat two separate deals.

 

[Manny]

That seems to have gone down like a lead balloon

Spoiler

Have much respect for you Rio......However for this time I would not agree with you.....For myself personally who struggles to make ends meet week to week with crap wages and 4 kids something needs to give. With all due respect Rio you don't have the same worries as the majority of the population. Seems to me that all these high profile people jumping on the remain band wagon also don't have the same issues as the rest of us.Im out

Rio's basically suggesting that anyone who votes leave is racist. Judging by the comments on here, that's pretty much everyone. How much are you being paid to post this? Seriously?

What a very idealistic view on the whole thing, your first point was basically saying, "let's allow the EU to bully us into staying" - sounds fun. Your second point is only valid when all "teamplayers" are equal and have equal opportunity to contribute to the important matters, how many times has the UK vote on EU matters been vetoed or ignored? Third point - There is nothing racist about the leave campaign as a whole, and comparing people who want to focus the resources of their country onto their own people first to the average knuckle dragger making monkey noises in a football crowd is ludicrous. I'm voting leave.

Sadly you seem to have forgotten where you came from and are quoting the usual racist stuff that all the people in this country with loads of money do. I have too rely on the NHS unlike you who can afford private care and if we stay in the EU it will collapse under the pressures being placed upon it.

Stay out politics Rio you have that much money it doesn't effect you!

and a reply from BNB:

"I struggle to make ends meet so I'm voting for another recession".

Any way happy to see Rio come out and implore people to vote. Just a shame it's going to attract far more feckers who don't know what they are talking about

 

[711]

Another thing to take account of is the way they run their leadership contest, where it's the MPs that whittle it down to the final two contenders before it goes to the members. Portillo was blocked when he ran by a lot of tactical voting from Tory MPs that he'd annoyed, and I wouldn't rule out a similar thing happening with Boris.

I also think the likeliest person on the Remain side to make it to the final membership ballot is May, who's been low-key enough during the campaign that she might not have completely alienated herself. Osborne I think knows he's a busted flush at this point.

Betfair have it:

Johnson 5/2
Osborne 7/2
Gove 4
May 6
Javid 12
Crabb 14
Patel 16

Johnson has had a pretty crap campaign, and as leader will be held responsible if Leave fails. I have been contemplating a bet on May, but as Ubik says, she would have to have support from MPs to get to the final ballot, and apparently she is not popular with fellow MPs. So maybe Gove would be the best bet for next leader?and I never thought I'd be saying that.

 

[Ubik]

If it's no Boris then what does that mean, Osborne/ May/ Javid v Gove?

Probably, Gove says he doesn't want to do it but he also talks a lot of rubbish. Wouldn't rule out Priti Patel standing either. In the end, if Leaver Tories decide on one candidate (Boris) and are disciplined enough to only nominate him in the first round, he'll certainly get to the membership vote. But I'm not sure they'd be that disciplined. Then again, those on the Remain side would have to be wary of any tactical shenanigans as well, Portillo got defeated in 2001 but they ended up with IDS instead.

 

[ClutchHunter]

Just a thought but it could well be less than 3 in 10 people who vote for us to remain

the spread betting indicated approx 70% turn out with a small win for remain (by 5%-10%)
so actually if you think about it
Population of UK approx 65,000,000
Population registered and eligible to vote approx 45,000,000
expected turnout approx 70% would be 31,5000,000
Remain votes (52.5%)approx 16,537,500
Leave Votes (47.5%) approx 14,962,500
so basically it could come down to about 1.5 million votes
or to put it another way if you take 100 people 48 of them would not have voted, 27 vote remain and 25 vote leave

I'm not sure it will turn out quite that close but one things for sure I don't think the debate is going to stop on Friday as I'm sure whichever side looses will question the validity of the result if its close

I'm sure that if we vote to remain then Farage and company will bang on about it endlessly like the SNP do about independence and like I do about voting reform. On the other hand, should we vote to leave, we're basically stuck with the decision.

Seems a little unbalanced given how easily the polls slide about +/- 10%.

 

[sun_tzu]

Betfair have it:

Johnson 5/2
Osborne 7/2
Gove 4
May 6
Javid 12
Crabb 14
Patel 16

.

Quite big variences at different bookies

Johnson......... 11/4 Betfred........ 15/8 Coral
May ................6/1 Betfair.......... 4/1 Bet Fred
Osbourne........ 6/1 Ladbrooks.....7/2 Unibet
Gove............... 8/1 Betway.........4/1 Betfair
Crabb............. 16/1 Ladbrooks...12/1 Coral
Javid............. 16/1 Bet365........10/1 Unibet
Patel............. 20/1 Ladbrooks....10/1 Betway

My guess is that its not a huge market and bookies are offering odds to balance their own books against bets they have taken...

Once you see most bookies start to offer the same odds then the market is big enough for it to be pretty reliable but right now I wouldnt take much account of an individual bookies odds

Though All have Johnson as favourite by quite a bit so thats about as much as you can read into it I think

 

[Smores]

Where I am everyone seems to be voting leave!

Some of the crap I have heard as to their reasons why makes you worry for democracy.

I attended a debate recently within the finance industry and even that was largely split. I know the majority view here is that anyone voting leave is an uninformed idiot but I really don't think that's the case. It's a very wide mix throughout the country across every level.

Remain will win as people are risk averse, fear prevails over hope of change which is why the tories won the last election.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Remain will win as people are risk averse, fear prevails over hope of change which is why the tories won the last election.

Agree though I don't see much if any hope from the Leave campaign. It's all about the immigrunts.

 

[sun_tzu]

Agree though I don't see much if any hope from the Leave campaign. It's all about the immigrunts.

they hope to find a final solution to immigration

 

[Honest John]

Quite big variences at different bookies

Johnson......... 11/4 Betfred........ 15/8 Coral
May ................6/1 Betfair.......... 4/1 Bet Fred
Osbourne........ 6/1 Ladbrooks.....7/2 Unibet
Gove............... 8/1 Betway.........4/1 Betfair
Crabb............. 16/1 Ladbrooks...12/1 Coral
Javid............. 16/1 Bet365........10/1 Unibet
Patel............. 20/1 Ladbrooks....10/1 Betway

My guess is that its not a huge market and bookies are offering odds to balance their own books against bets they have taken...

Once you see most bookies start to offer the same odds then the market is big enough for it to be pretty reliable but right now I wouldnt take much account of an individual bookies odds

Though All have Johnson as favourite by quite a bit so thats about as much as you can read into it I think

My prediction.

We'll stay in
Cameron will see out his term
May will win Leadership contest because the party will be acutely aware that another Eton/Tory-boy toff could lead to a loss at the GE.

 

[SteveJ]

Roubini predicted the credit crunch in great detail tbf. Guess you can dine on that sort of call for years.

It wasn't a dig at your post, chief...especially as I've no idea who Roubini is anyway.

 

[Manny]

I attended a debate recently within the finance industry and even that was largely split. I know the majority view here is that anyone voting leave is an uninformed idiot but I really don't think that's the case. It's a very wide mix throughout the country across every level.

Remain will win as people are risk averse, fear prevails over hope of change which is why the tories won the last election.

There was a poll done by FT that had city bosses at 85% believing we should vote to remain.

Cant find it now but it was attached to an article commenting on how they thought being too vocal would be counter productive to a remain win.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

fear prevails over hope of change which is why the tories won the last election.

Totally disagree on that point. Blair came to power selling the hope of change. The Tories won the last election primarily because Labour were not trusted to look after the economy and Ed didn't sell as a statesman IMO.

That is for another thread though.

May will win Leadership contest because the party will be acutely aware that another Eton/Tory-boy toff could lead to a loss at the GE.

Against the invisible man? Corbyn I mean.

 

[DenisIrwin]

Or, we could, you know, not do austerity. At this point, it's a political ploy, rather than a financial necessity.



- China wants us to stay in: https://www.rt.com/uk/319488-china-eu-brexit-referendum/
- Indian businesses want us to stay: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/24/indian-business-leaders-speak-out-against-brexit

I have no idea what Brazil wants - I can't see any opinions.

Businesses don't like regulation. If the UK and the EU separate, it's not outlandish that they will have different sets of regulation, from trade tariffs to health and safety regulations. Businesses that sell, say, cars to the UK and EU under these circumstances would possibly need two sets of manufacturing processes to sell to two different markets, therefore driving up their costs. Businesses outside of the EU would therefore prefer Remain, to keep costs low and sales high.

Businesses that only trade with the UK may benefit, but that is a real niche, because any major trading activity will very likely have customers on the continent, too.

There's also the act of getting the trade deals done - it's a long-and-hard process. Doing one deal with the EU will always beat two separate deals.

I prefer to call it a political stunt, but I agree.

 

[711]

My guess is that its not a huge market and bookies are offering odds to balance their own books against bets they have taken...

That's how I read it too. There won't have been enough money on to be worth laying off either.

Yesterday I tried to place £20 on a sending off, Betfair accepted maximum £16. I reckon they could only have had a grand or two on the sending off market in the first place.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Where I am everyone seems to be voting leave!

Some of the crap I have heard as to their reasons why makes you worry for democracy.

Well lets abolish democracy, what many have fought for.

 

[Rado_N]

Well lets abolish democracy, what many have fought for.

You not bored of ignorantly arguing against stuff people haven't said yet?

You watched that video?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

There was a poll done by FT that had city bosses at 85% believing we should vote to remain.

Can

You not bored of ignorantly arguing against stuff people haven't said yet?

You watched that video?

t find it now but it was attached to an article commenting on how they thought being too vocal would be counter productive to a remain win.

Yeah I watched it.
Its bollcks.

 

[rcoobc]

Just a thought but it could well be less than 3 in 10 people who vote for us to remain

the spread betting indicated approx 70% turn out with a small win for remain (by 5%-10%)
so actually if you think about it
Population of UK approx 65,000,000
Population registered and eligible to vote approx 45,000,000
expected turnout approx 70% would be 31,5000,000
Remain votes (52.5%)approx 16,537,500
Leave Votes (47.5%) approx 14,962,500
so basically it could come down to about 1.5 million votes
or to put it another way if you take 100 people 48 of them would not have voted, 27 vote remain and 25 vote leave

I'm not sure it will turn out quite that close but one things for sure I don't think the debate is going to stop on Friday as I'm sure whichever side looses will question the validity of the result if its close

You could say the same about every general election to be honest.

 

[Rado_N]

ignorance must be bliss

 

[Penna]

Agree though I don't see much if any hope from the Leave campaign. It's all about the immigrunts.

I've just been to my gym, it's women-only and we chat. Someone raised the issue of the referendum - the ones who said "leave" were only interested in the immigration issue and European people taking "our jobs".

I pointed out that if Eastern European lads are prepared to get up at dawn to work in the many farms around here (which is what a lot of them do, it's hard work and long hours), it's more than likely that local lads could do the exact same thing, if they wanted to. This was not a popular POV. I know a few of the guys who are actually doing this work, and they all have technical qualifications - engineers, draughtsmen and the like.

Whether or not farm work is an appropriate use of their skills is another matter, because it clearly isn't. However, rather than castigating them for taking "our jobs", I'd rather applaud them for their willingness to do tough manual work, when nothing else is available.

 

[Zarlak]

Yeah I watched it.
Its bollcks.

Feel free to refute any of the points made. But you can't.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Well lets abolish democracy, what many have fought for.

It is a good idea but it won't sell very well. Alternatively we should teach children critical thinking from an early age. It should be at the core of the curriculum alongside Maths, English and Interpretive Dance.

 

[Carolina Red]

I've just been to my gym, it's women-only and we chat. Someone raised the issue of the referendum - the ones who said "leave" were only interested in the immigration issue and European people taking "our jobs".

I pointed out that if Eastern European lads are prepared to get up at dawn to work in the many farms around here (which is what a lot of them do, it's hard work and long hours), it's more than likely that local lads could do the exact same thing, if they wanted to. This was not a popular POV. I know a few of the guys who are actually doing this work, and they all have technical qualifications - engineers, draughtsmen and the like.

Whether or not farm work is an appropriate use of their skills is another matter, because it clearly isn't. However, rather than castigating them for taking "our jobs", I'd rather applaud them for their willingness to do tough manual work, when nothing else is available.

Sounds like a very similar situation to what we have in America where we have people upset over Hispanic immigrants "taking our jobs" like there are lines of Americans out the door for farm labor and landscaping jobs.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Lets remember that the polls are 50/50. Uncertainty is a strong fear factor.
I get the impression here that the remain people regard themselves as the more inteligent. Or are they just youngsters?

 

[Zarlak]

Lets remember that the polls are 50/50. Uncertainty is a strong fear factor.
I get the impression here that the remain people regard themselves as the more inteligent. Or are they just youngsters.

Because thinly veiled digs are the hallmark of intelligence.

 

[Damien]

Lets remember that the polls are 50/50. Uncertainty is a strong fear factor.
I get the impression here that the remain people regard themselves as the more inteligent. Or are they just youngsters.

Different ages like with the Leave people. It's intelligent by the way.