Unfortunately, that will not happen, if the vote is leave the current government will not be there for very long at least not in its current form. How can they steady the ship, it's not them that decide the market. The government , well Cameron anyway, did pin it's hopes on voting remain because the thought that that Uk might vote to leave was incomprehensible
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
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Unfortunately, that will not happen, if the vote is leave the current government will not be there for very long at least not in its current form. How can they steady the ship, it's not them that decide the market. The government , well Cameron anyway, did pin it's hopes on voting remain because the thought that that Uk might vote to leave was incomprehensible
This is well worth a watch
Shuffle? Noose round necks and open the trapdoors
When Johnson was standing with his big cheque saying this is how much we could save, he surely knew that he wasn't telling the truth. He is an intelligent chap by all accounts but seems to me he's an opportunist, using this to further his own ends in the most deceitful way
Definitely. Boris is all about himself. Gove and Farage are little Englanders.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36150193
The economy side is the most uncertain aspect, as we do not know how opening up trade links with other nations will affect our economy, or what changes will be made that will affect how we currently trade.
There are best and worst case scenarios envisaged, but it's not possible to be sure.
FFS
Yes we do. You keep repeating this doesn't make it true. We have seen this happen already elsewhere. We have very good ideas about what negatives may happen, and we have absolutely no idea how anything positive may happen. Just a few opinions based on nothing.
Could they be found guilty of treason for trying to destroy the UK for their own personal gains
Incredible how people with such low IQ can get elected.
David Beckham - entirely self made man from humble working class roots. Thought Tories loved that.
Instead Ms Dorries would rather support BoJo
They prey on fear. fecking vultures.
"this has become a division of the classes, don't listen to that bloke born on a council estate that made himself what he is, listen to Mr Working Class himself Boris Johnson!"
Don't forget, the Labour leadership also want to remain.
So, how will free trade with China affect us?
In fairness, the short term impact is relatively easy to predict (and clearly bad for the country). The long term best choice is much harder to call. But really, all the 'issues' causing people to vote Leave are so misunderstood, so based on people's innate mistrust of foreigners rather than any strategic long term view of whether or not the EU will prosper. It is crazy to introduce such instability for no good reason. We should look at the real drivers of economic stability, happiness and well-being. The EU has played relatively little part in any of these, but has probably had a minor positive impact, based largely on legislation protecting various rights. It certainly hasn't been a cause of major problems - leaving it would appear to be rank insanity. Real problems in Europe are not in the dim and distant past and should not be forgotten - and the way out of these is without doubt to believe in union in various forms, rather than division. The aims of EU are good - surely everyone can see that at least?
Yes. I'm aware. And to date the so called 'economists for Brexit' are among the only people, if not the only, to have issued a report that does anything other than predict a cataclysmic result for the UK leaving the EU. There might be disagreement as to how bad things will get, but the consensus is clear, this will get worse than they are now.
Besides, I must apologise to you, I mistakenly said to Rado_N that there was 10 economists that backed Brexit. I would like to issue a retraction on that claim, the group 'Economists for Brexit' actually counts only 8 members, one of which has been forced to embarrassingly distance himself from the contradictory advice he has offered his clients on the one hand, and his public statements on the other.
I don't really know what it will take to convince you, here's an editorial from the ft that says much the same thing, I doubt it will help, but here's to hoping.
https://next.ft.com/content/e66852f0-3249-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b
Yes they do, as I 've said all along this is nothing to do with the good of the country , it's about political jostling and power , unfortunately the UK people are the rabbits in the headlights and have no idea which way to run because they been lied to and don't know what the truth really is . Anyone who does try to give an unbiased opinion is discarded as a scaremonger.
Personally if I was still living in the UK now and thought that Leave might win, I would be absolutely terrified.
Not sure you actually read it, but here are the highlights
"A group of eight influential economists have thrown their support behind the Leave campaign in the UK's referendum on EU membership. The group, Economists for Brexit, argue that leaving the EU would boost the UK economy by 4% in 10 years."
"The report's authors include Professor Patrick Minford, a former adviser to Baroness Margaret Thatcher, and Gerard Lyons, a former chief economist at Standard Chartered Bank and now an adviser to the London Mayor, Boris Johnson, who is campaigning for Britain to leave the EU."
Excellent summary, agree completely.
How can you be convinced about something that is uncertain?
As I've been saying, we do not know what agreements will be in place with us leaving. It is in Europe's best interests that we continue to trade as we have been.
And it will be the EU's interest for us to rejoin again in the future if we left. If Britain left, and France after us, changes will have to be made in order to prevent a collapse of the EU.
Most people here are probably just fearful of the uncertainty itself, which is understandable.
There will be no agreements in place, it all has to start from zero after the divorce, why do keep saying France are leaving, they're not
I didn't say that France is leaving, but there is a chance they could vote to leave, because there is a growing desire among the French to have an EU referendum.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit
No it's not. This is just arrogant belief. All evidence says it simply isn't true. You're peddling an opinion that is based in no evidence whatsoever.
So the referendum is on 23rd, right?
Not hoping for much but it's interesting to watch how things will unfold in GB. Always hoped it would be you guys who left first and others followed really.
Not hoping for much but it's interesting to watch how things will unfold in GB. Always hoped it would be you guys who left first and others followed really.
When I saw "Express" I knew what was coming next - it's not true -that's not saying everybody in France is ecstatic with the EU either but the Uk will be the Guinea pig, the trialist, to see what happens - if UK go into meltdown, do you think the others are going to follow, I somehow think not. If on the other hand the Uk proved to be successful on their own , then other countries would possibly want to do the same. But as nearly all experts are forecasting financial gloom from temporary downturn to major disaster then this is unlikely to happen at least in the short to medium term
There have to be agreements in place, as we are still a European Country to trade with
Oh really?
So you assume Europe will tell us to piss off, and our country will go down the toilet?
The same agreements won't be in place - new terms will have to be negotiated and as said before this will take many years.
The EU don't want the Uk to leave, but if they do they are going to be extremely pissed off with the UK - the UK will trade with the EU but on their terms
This is the problem with trying to have an educated debate, all you're doing is throwing vague general phrases out there devoid of context. Nobody said the country will go down the toilet. We have however outlined some concerning possibilities based in actual evidence. It's a fact that when we leave the EU our trade deals with them cease to exist. It's a fact that this means that 45% of our exports vanish. We must then renegotiate a new deal with the EU and it's also a fact that this can take up to 10-12 years to complete, and that those who have done so before have had to take back from the EU most of the things that the leave campaign are telling us that we are going to get away from. The question is whether it's worth going through that economic hurt to get back the things we wanted to be rid of in the first place. Begs the question of 'what's the point?'. You can bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at the countries who have already done this but that's your issue not mine. Usually society makes decisions based on evidence, not based on 'feck it, why not?'
Which rules out a negative short term impact, as somebody above predicted.
With another two years of us remaining in the EU, it gives us time to compromise on the issues that the British people are concerned about. The EU won't have a choice but to concede in certain areas, or lose us.
Personally I think that things will be worked out over that time, but its all conjecture.
Like what?
No one has left the EU.
There will be two years for us to set up treaties and agreements etc.
And you want an educated debate?
Ok, so you assume that we're all going to be friends for two years trading merrily, knowing that it's all going to shit after those two years?
Just heard Boris Johnson saying we shouldn't listen to George Soros, but Anthony Bamford, Chairman of JCB — the same JCB that was fined €39.6m for antitrust breaches by the EU.
"The fine centred on JCB’s strategy of preventing consumers in one EU country buying its machinery more cheaply from an authorised dealer in another EU country — an approach that the then trade commissioner Mario Monti called a “shocking” breach of the single market."
"The fine centred on JCB’s strategy of preventing consumers in one EU country buying its machinery more cheaply from an authorised dealer in another EU country — an approach that the then trade commissioner Mario Monti called a “shocking” breach of the single market."
The government has the power to reject a leave vote, so it won't need to be rigged (and I'm voting to leave).
Cameron and his government would be finished if he went against the peoples choice, but if he deemed it too important to stay in the EU, he has the power to overturn a leave vote.
I'm not saying I'm 'convinced about something that is uncertain'. To paraphrase what I said was 'I am convinced there is an unusually strong academic consensus that all points to the fact that Brexit is an economically really bad decision'.
Now if you don't believe that statement to be correct then I'm not sure if theres much point arguing any further. If you want to believe that the weight of academic opinion is incorrect then fine – I'd question very strongly why you think that and highly doubt its anything more than hoping that the weight of academic opinion is wrong because its inconvenient for your pre-conceived beliefs rather than because you've conducted your own research into the figures presented and have problems with their methodology – and in due course the academic debate will shift from forecasting to evaluating each others claims, thats part and parcel of the process.
You're vastly over-estimating Britain's influence and vastly under-estimating the likely economic effect. If no one else has been able to convince you of that until now, then I don't think I'm going to be able to.
Like 'the EU will have to rethink it's stance' and 'do you think the country will go down the toilet' none of this means anything. You are providing no evidence to back up the statements you make, you're not taking into account what exactly goes into the things you're talking about. Why will the EU have to rethink it's stance, what is going to make it do this? Give me some facts and figures that cannot stand up to being refuted. Give me an insight into the thought process of the EU and how it's going to affect them, but you can't. You're just making blanket statements because it's how you feel.
Evidence of trade deals being set up. I don't know if you're twisted what is being said on purpose or not.
That's all well and good, but trade deals take 5 times as long from previous experience. What are we going to do in the meantime?
Yes, I do. It's not too much to ask.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
That's not vote rigging though
This is what will be interesting, Cameron by all accounts should postpone the process and take the referendum vote (if leave) as the start of negotiations. If he simply jumps into the unknown abyss then he's an even bigger idiot than I thought.
It's whether he'd be removed for delaying the process that is the question, his position might become untenable. Will people back Boris if it then becomes a choice of immediate withdrawal or a slow and considered withdrawal?
If the UK votes leave his position must surely become untenable. It's a scary thought as to the options that might replace him though.
Tbh if I was Cameron (perish the thought) in the event of a Leave vote I'd tender my resignation on Friday morning bugger off to the South of France and leave the Leave campaign to sort out the mess.
Listening to James O'Brien taking calls on this vote rigging story and it is legitimately terrifying how idiotic people are.
One woman convinced that the computers used to count the votes will be programmed to favour remain…
There is no electronic counting at this referendum.
One woman convinced that the computers used to count the votes will be programmed to favour remain…
There is no electronic counting at this referendum.
I don't think you understand that, if we votes to leave, we will still be in the EU for another two years where negotiations will be thrashed out. Treatise could be set up similar to Switzerland and Norway, but it is impossible to know what will happen.
You seem to be assuming that if we vote out, we'll be immediately out of the EU, and no longer a trading partner.
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