EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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vidic blood & sand said:
With me saying, "I'll be voting to leave"?
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With you saying: 'but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future', 'I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.', and 'But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU' it gives the impression of not currently being part of the EU now.

As I said: I'm just making sure.
 
Sweet Square said:
Yanis Varoufakis(The guy in the video I posted)has said when he was the former Greek minister of finance the euro group threaten him and he's government with the closure of Greek banks. Yes the expert right to say this doesn't effect UK as it one of the big 3 but he's wrong to view this is a positive part of the EU. There is simply a huge problem with democracy and the EU, now voting out won't help to fix any of this and will simply isolate the UK in my opinion anyway, so I guess that sort of makes my point a bit well pointless but it's worth mentioning.
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Their banks were on the brink of collapse and needed propping up by the EU. Not sure he's the most reliable source, given he has such an axe to grind.
 
NinjaFletch said:
With you saying: 'but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future', 'I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.', and 'But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU' it gives the impression of not currently being part of the EU now.

As I said: I'm just making sure.
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I've heard that the Uk are also going to abandon groats as legal tender
 
Untied said:
It's difficult to compare the two. The generational divide is twisted 180º — the old favour Leave and the young Remain. The older, risk averse voters in Scotland won it (and there were barely any polls that put Yes ahead). Leave has lead or been neck and neck in the majority of polls since 1st June. The polls this week look slightly more promising for Remain. It's going to be close though: @sun_tzu is winning his grand.
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Good couple of points, and definitely drawing parallels with the Scottish polls is anything but scientific. But I think it's more about human nature than being about age categories. People who are still undecided that close to the election will probably opt to the "safer" choice. Not to mention that the momentum seem to be with the "remain" campaign just 4 days before the voting.
 
Yea, vote leave and everyone in Europe will start driving on the other side of the road.

What a colossal moron.
 
golden_blunder said:
they're just so bleeding dishonest. Leave campaign that is, not Nissan
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What do you expect, their campaign is run by the 'NOtoAV' crowd. Don't tell me you've forgotten the 'this baby doesn't need AV, it needs a ventilator' and the '£250,000 can buy our soldiers body armour' ads.
 
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vidic blood & sand said:
I'll be voting to leave, but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future. At least we may have a little more bargaining power if we vote to leave, instead of us falling over and kissing Brussels arse.
I think it'll be similar to the government's desire to change the Sunday trading law. The Sunday shopping proposal was defeated in parliament, but they eventually managed to force it through, because they wanted it so badly. If anything negative happens to the British economy after a possible leave EU vote, governments can blame brexit, and I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.

There are loads of warnings for and against being part of the EU, but the fact is, no one really knows exactly how it will effect us until it happens. But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU. When Cameron says it's a one time vote, that's bollocks. When the government want something, they won't stop till they get it.
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You over estimate how much bargaining power will give the UK. I am absolutely certain the EU will demand free movement if we want to enjoy the free market. Voting leave or stay isn't going to change much. Unless we are prepared to have tariffs on our good which would be a disaster.
 
Untied said:
It's difficult to compare the two. The generational divide is twisted 180º — the old favour Leave and the young Remain. The older, risk averse voters in Scotland won it (and there were barely any polls that put Yes ahead). Leave has lead or been neck and neck in the majority of polls since 1st June. The polls this week look slightly more promising for Remain. It's going to be close though: @sun_tzu is winning his grand.
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I have a postal vote for an old man down the road which is for Leave. I'm also doing a proxy vote for a young woman down the road and it's a Leave. I'm a Leave and age wise somewhere in the middle of those two. It's cutting across all ages.
 
Jippy said:
Their banks were on the brink of collapse and needed propping up by the EU. Not sure he's the most reliable source, given he has such an axe to grind.
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Maybe but he's campaigning for Remain and has set up a DiEM25(a campaign to help democratise the EU, although can't see that happening myself)so I guess he must see something good in the EU. At the very least I think he's worth listening to.
 
Red Defence said:
I have a postal vote for an old man down the road which is for Leave. I'm also doing a proxy vote for a young woman down the road and it's a Leave. I'm a Leave and age wise somewhere in the middle of those two. It's cutting across all ages.
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These are generalisations. Individual examples are less relevant.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I'll be voting to leave, but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future. At least we may have a little more bargaining power if we vote to leave, instead of us falling over and kissing Brussels arse.
I think it'll be similar to the government's desire to change the Sunday trading law. The Sunday shopping proposal was defeated in parliament, but they eventually managed to force it through, because they wanted it so badly. If anything negative happens to the British economy after a possible leave EU vote, governments can blame brexit, and I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.

There are loads of warnings for and against being part of the EU, but the fact is, no one really knows exactly how it will effect us until it happens. But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU. When Cameron says it's a one time vote, that's bollocks. When the government want something, they won't stop till they get it.
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The idea that leaving will get us a better deal further down the line is deluded in my opinion. We already get special treatment compared to the EU. If we ask to come back in, it'll likely be on the same terms as other joiners - that is, no rebate, and joining the Euro.
 
Sweet Square said:
Maybe but he's campaigning for Remain and has set up a DiEM25(a campaign to help democratise the EU, although can't see that happening myself)so I guess he must see something good in the EU. At the very least I think he's worth listening to.
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Just seems to have become a rentaquote talking head tbh.
 
Adisa said:
You over estimate how much bargaining power will give the UK. I am absolutely certain the EU will demand free movement if we want to enjoy the free market. Voting leave or stay isn't going to change much. Unless we are prepared to have tariffs on our good which would be a disaster.
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A time will come when the EU realise that they need to trade with us just as much as we need to trade with them, if not more so. There are other countries in the world for us to trade with. In fact there's a whole world out there. It's the EU's obsession with controlling EU members that has got us to this stage now and I really don't think they are going in the right direction for there to be a harmonious EU in the future.

How well we negotiate future trade deals will be up to Cameron and I'm pretty sure he will want to go down in history as someone who negotiated well for the UK. He was shat on by the EU when he went asking for reforms on our behalf and he won't want that to happen again. In case you hadn't noticed he hates losing and will go to great lengths to ensure that he doesn't. Wouldn't be surprised if he already has some potential trade deals lined up. He won't forget the way Brussels treated him in the last few months either.
 
Red Defence said:
A time will come when the EU realise that they need to trade with us just as much as we need to trade with them, if not more so. There are other countries in the world for us to trade with. In fact there's a whole world out there. It's the EU's obsession with controlling EU members that has got us to this stage now and I really don't think they are going in the right direction for there to be a harmonious EU in the future.

How well we negotiate future trade deals will be up to Cameron and I'm pretty sure he will want to go down in history as someone who negotiated well for the UK. He was shat on by the EU when he went asking for reforms on our behalf and he won't want that to happen again. In case you hadn't noticed he hates losing and will go to great lengths to ensure that he doesn't. Wouldn't be surprised if he already has some potential trade deals lined up. He won't forget the way Brussels treated him in the last few months either.
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Let's see how fast we strike up trade agreements with the rest of the world.
And your point on Cameron, I think you're naive.
 
lynchie said:
The idea that leaving will get us a better deal further down the line is deluded in my opinion. We already get special treatment compared to the EU. If we ask to come back in, it'll likely be on the same terms as other joiners - that is, no rebate, and joining the Euro.
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If we leave and have to return, we'd be essentially on our knees. Fanciful is the least offensive way you can describe thinking we would have a stronge bargaining position.
 
Red Defence said:
A time will come when the EU realise that they need to trade with us just as much as we need to trade with them, if not more so. There are other countries in the world for us to trade with. In fact there's a whole world out there. It's the EU's obsession with controlling EU members that has got us to this stage now and I really don't think they are going in the right direction for there to be a harmonious EU in the future.

How well we negotiate future trade deals will be up to Cameron and I'm pretty sure he will want to go down in history as someone who negotiated well for the UK. He was shat on by the EU when he went asking for reforms on our behalf and he won't want that to happen again. In case you hadn't noticed he hates losing and will go to great lengths to ensure that he doesn't. Wouldn't be surprised if he already has some potential trade deals lined up. He won't forget the way Brussels treated him in the last few months either.
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Your opinion on Cameron is far too high, he knew he was never going to get anything of value from those reforms. It was just a tactic to get something anything he could champion.
 
Red Defence said:
A time will come when the EU realise that they need to trade with us just as much as we need to trade with them, if not more so. There are other countries in the world for us to trade with. In fact there's a whole world out there. It's the EU's obsession with controlling EU members that has got us to this stage now and I really don't think they are going in the right direction for there to be a harmonious EU in the future.

How well we negotiate future trade deals will be up to Cameron and I'm pretty sure he will want to go down in history as someone who negotiated well for the UK. He was shat on by the EU when he went asking for reforms on our behalf and he won't want that to happen again. In case you hadn't noticed he hates losing and will go to great lengths to ensure that he doesn't. Wouldn't be surprised if he already has some potential trade deals lined up. He won't forget the way Brussels treated him in the last few months either.
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You don't understand how this works. The EU does not need trade with us. The EU does not trade with us. Individual countries within the EU trade with us. Those individual countries will need to replenish about 8-10% of their exports if we leave the EU. We will need to replenish 45% of our exports. Do you see who is the one in most need here?

Not to mention, we do not trade with all EU member states. In order for us to agree a trade deal with the EU, every member state must agree to it. Why would a country that we do not trade with agree to a trade deal that offered them no incentive? This is where concessions come in.
 
Rado_N said:
You mean scaremongers?
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8-10 is probably quite conservative. Some would be a lot less complex than others but trade agreements with blocks would take a considerable amount of time.

We'd be bonkers to leave the single market immediately though. I'd expect if we leave for us to join the EEA as an interim.
 
Smores said:
8-10 is probably quite conservative. Some would be a lot less complex than others but trade agreements with blocks would take a considerable amount of time.

We'd be bonkers to leave the single market immediately though. I'd expect if we leave for us to join the EEA as an interim.
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There's no way that will happen. It requires free movement of EU nationals which the leave campaign have categorically rejected.
 
Zarlak said:
You don't understand how this works. The EU does not need trade with us. The EU does not trade with us. Individual countries within the EU trade with us. Those individual countries will need to replenish about 8-10% of their exports if we leave the EU. We will need to replenish 45% of our exports. Do you see who is the one in most need here?

Not to mention, we do not trade with all EU member states. In order for us to agree a trade deal with the EU, every member state must agree to it. Why would a country that we do not trade with agree to a trade deal that offered them no incentive? This is where concessions come in.
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I do understand how it works but I firmly believe that if we vote Leave then things within the EU will have to change. They have no choice but to change or there may be other countries who decide to hold a referendum and end up Leaving.
 
Red Defence said:
I do understand how it works but I firmly believe that if we vote Leave then things within the EU will have to change. They have no choice but to change or there may be other countries who decide to hold a referendum and end up Leaving.
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I think there's no evidence for that and I need something more tangible than wishful thinking to mess around with my future and my children's future. Your statement that the EU will realise they need to trade with us is false, because they don't. It's individual countries who need to. Can you think of a reason why a country we don't trade with would agree to a deal that sees us get better treatment than them? I'd love to hear one.
 
Red Defence said:
I do understand how it works but I firmly believe that if we vote Leave then things within the EU will have to change. They have no choice but to change or there may be other countries who decide to hold a referendum and end up Leaving.
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That's only if we are successful, if we crash lessons learned for the rest of them
 
Red Defence said:
Whichever way the vote goes you don't know what the future will hold. But if you trust Brussels then go ahead and Remain.
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That's a very simplistic view. We do know what the future is likely to hold, because we have examples of it happening in the past. We have vast vast amounts of expert opinion based on evidence. So we've got one possibility that's based on something and we've got other possibilities based on nothing. We don't know for sure, but we have plenty of indications for some very very scary prospects, and we know for a fact that some of the remains claims are flat out lies and we have very little evidence that anything will be better.
 
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