EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

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golden_blunder said:
Norway keeps getting held up as an example

Have any of the brexit team been to Norway? It costs a fecking fortune for everything and their tax rates are huge

Copy that model and uk citizens will be moaning in no time
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And Norway will STILL pay about £623 million into the EU in 2016.
 
Akshay said:
Possibly. The UK isn't the main trading partner of any country in the EU, and only the 2nd main partner of Poland and Cyprus. Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands and Germany have the UK as their 3rd main partner. Germany and France, along with the US, are the main partners of most of the EU countries, so I expect they have a lot more influence when it comes to trade agreements.

That's for trade in goods btw. If you include services then the dependence on the UK becomes even smaller as the UK doesn't import much in the way of services from the EU.
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Where are you getting those details from?
 
Actually, the table is from 2014. Germany by far the biggest trade partner for EU nations, followed by France and Italy.

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Akshay said:
Actually, the table is from 2014. Germany by far the biggest trade partner for EU nations, followed by France and Italy.

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Cheers. If we're so unimportant to them, it'd make you wonder why they're making such a fuss about us possibly leaving!
 
Drifter said:
Vote leave say that they never knew she was ever part of Brexit. Ouch.
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Yeah I was surprised she was even a part of Leave as she was never out campaigning. Either way the response from Vote Leave was not to refute her allegations, just another bitchy comment.
 
Wibble said:
What utter rubbish. Listen to what an actual expert has to say about the silliness of such sovereignty based arguments. In fact listen to everything he has to say.

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The sovereignty argument is a valid one(Not to mention the expert dismissive ton of smaller nations).

Here's someone who's being in these talks

 
Adisa said:
Banks and asset management firms have been briefing their clients in the last few days that, they still expect a remain vote.
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Where have you heard that? Been mixed from what I've seen- from memory L&G and Henderson said they'd be fine out, a few others said it will be an issue, down to the inevitable stock market/gilt/sterling sell-off.
 
Rawk-style imaginary Manc friends coming into play.

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Sweet Square said:
The sovereignty argument is a valid one(Not to mention the expert dismissive ton of smaller nations).
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It is utter bollocks. Of course you trade something for influence but sovereignty isn't one of those things. The EU isn't a sovereign state. The UK is.
 
Adisa said:
Banks and asset management firms have been briefing their clients in the last few days that, they still expect a remain vote.
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Can't say I've come across this but there is a push to manage the potential outflows. Across the board It really shouldn't affect asset managers too badly at all.
 
Farage accuses Cameron of trying to exploit Jo Cox's death to help Remain

Here are more lines from Nigel Farage’s LBC phone-in.

Farage accused David Cameron of trying to exploit the death of Jo Cox to help Remain. He said:
"What we are seeing here is the Prime Minister and the Remain campaign trying to conflate the actions of one crazed individual with the motives of half of Britain who think we should get back control of our borders and do it sensibly. And I think that’s quite wrong the way it’s been done..."

"I think there are Remain camp supporters out there who are using this tragic death to try to give the impression that this isolated, horrific incident is somehow linked to arguments that have been made by myself, or Michael Gove or anybody else in this campaign. And frankly that is wrong."

Asked if he was accusing Cameron of opportunism, he replied:

"I think people are intelligent enough to make their minds up on that."

(Guardian)
 
SteveJ said:
Farage accuses Cameron of trying to exploit Jo Cox's death to help Remain

Here are more lines from Nigel Farage’s LBC phone-in.

Farage accused David Cameron of trying to exploit the death of Jo Cox to help Remain. He said:
"What we are seeing here is the Prime Minister and the Remain campaign trying to conflate the actions of one crazed individual with the motives of half of Britain who think we should get back control of our borders and do it sensibly. And I think that’s quite wrong the way it’s been done..."

"I think there are Remain camp supporters out there who are using this tragic death to try to give the impression that this isolated, horrific incident is somehow linked to arguments that have been made by myself, or Michael Gove or anybody else in this campaign. And frankly that is wrong."

Asked if he was accusing Cameron of opportunism, he replied:

"I think people are intelligent enough to make their minds up on that."

(Guardian)
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But that's essentially what UKIP and the other far-righters do regarding immigration and Islam anyway. Hypocrite...
 
What a man. Johnson on being the Telegraph's Lead Writer, 1989-:

Boris Johnson said:
"I saw the whole European Union change. It was a wonderful time to be there. The Berlin Wall fell and the French and Germans had to decide how they were going to respond to this event, and what was Europe going to become, and there was this fantastic pressure to create a single polity, to create an answer to the historic German problem, and this produced the most fantastic strains in the Conservative Party, so everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power."
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Wibble said:
Why not pay more for less and with no political influence?
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Norway citizens narrowly voted twice against being in the EU as they thought it would harm their fishing industry. However, they are still part of the EU internal market and Schengen Agreement which means they still have to pay into the EU as the other member states do. I'm sick of seeing people say Norway don't pay into the EU and are thriving....they DO pay in and they MUST accept the freedom of movement of people which is what so many Leave campaigners are so concerned about.
 
SteveJ said:
What a man. Johnson on being the Telegraph's Lead Writer, 1989-:
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Equally bizarre comments from him on Turkey:

Boris Johnson strongly made the case for Turkey to be admitted to the EU and said he could not wait for the “great moment” when the two halves of the Roman Empire “are at last reunited in an expanded European Union” in a documentary he made for the BBC.

Before he became mayor of London, Johnson, who is now campaigning for Britain to leave the EU and says he supports tougher controls on migration into the UK, made an impassioned case for Turkey to be admitted to an enlarged EU in a 2006 film named The Dream of Rome.

“I believe our generation has a historic chance not just to reunite the two halves of the Roman Empire, but to build a bridge between the Islamic and the Christian worlds,” he said in the documentary, which compares the EU to the Roman Empire.
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How does this appalling man have any place in politics?:

Johnson's column would also be criticised in some quarters for exhibiting bigotry and prejudice. In one 2002 column he used the words "piccannies", and "watermelon smiles" when referring to Africans, also championing European colonialism in Uganda; he allegedly also used the term while visiting Uganda to Swedish UNICEF workers and their black driver in 2003. Elsewhere, he used homophobic terminology when referring to gay men as "tank-topped bumboys" further stating that it was "appalling" that the Labour government of Prime Minister Tony Blair were repealing Section 28, a piece of Conservative legislation that was intended to prevent the "promotion" of homosexuality, particularly with regard to children, saying "We don't want our children being taught some rubbish about homosexual marriage being the same as normal marriage", describing same-sex marriage as "a ludicrous parody of the real thing". In his book Friends, Voters, Countrymen, Johnson also said "If gay marriage was OK ... then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog".
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I remember as a kid loving Boris because he was such a tit to watch on TV and he came across as a bumbling likeable fool, hosting HIGNFY etc. Then when I actually grew up you feel somewhat ashamed of ever liking the bell end when you comprehend what actually comes out of his mouth.
 
Marching said:
Norway citizens narrowly voted twice against being in the EU as they thought it would harm their fishing industry. However, they are still part of the EU internal market and Schengen Agreement which means they still have to pay into the EU as the other member states do. I'm sick of seeing people say Norway don't pay into the EU and are thriving....they DO pay in and they MUST accept the freedom of movement of people which is what so many Leave campaigners are so concerned about.
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All true, however Norway isn't the best example for anything in the first place, they've made so much money from oil for the size of their population they aren't really comparable to anyone else.
 
I've only been reading the section about Johnson's time as a reporter/Editor, and even this part of his working life is replete with lies, dismissals, poor work & research, prejudice, and muck-raking. It's astonishing that anyone takes him seriously...in any field.

Charming man...

Scandal erupted in June 1995 when a recording of a telephone conversation between Johnson and Darius Guppy in 1990 was made public. Guppy had requested the private address and telephone number of News of the World journalist Stuart Collier, wishing to have Collier beaten up to prevent him investigating Guppy's criminal activities. In the conversation, Johnson agreed to provide the information, and expressed concern that he would be associated with the attack. Johnson insisted that he had never actually given Guppy the information, and Collier was not attacked; although Hastings reprimanded Johnson's behaviour, he was not sacked.
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Don't Kill Bill said:
I find it is telling that people who don't live in the UK and haven't for some time and those who have an obvious lack of commitment to living in the UK can't understand why the people who do might disagree with them. This post is pretty and also wrong. So lets start by dealing with each point one at at time.

1. I live in Rotherham and grew up in Eastwood you know feck all about what happened there and frankly I think your view is ill informed. Do you honestly think you know more about the terrible race relations there and the terrible effects of those than I do? Or about why a further influx of immigration through recent EU accession countries is causing concern. Are you really that arrogant dialling in your opinion from the other side of the world and yet still think you know best?

2. Recently arrived people get accommodation in council housing because they arrive with children and that means they have greater need. That is a fact and while people try to spin this as word of mouth it is actually how housing is allocated. It causes resentment because recent immigrants get the house and you don't even though you have been on the waiting list for longer than they have.

3. So immigration can't have two separate but not mutually exclusive effects then? You are wrong because the rate of in work activity between different immigrant communities is very different and the overall effect can be to drive down wage rates and increase benefit claiming. Start by comparing the economic activity 24 months post arrival of the varying ethnic groups there is a massive disparity.

4. Brexit's figures about how much the UK pays into the EU is correct. The fact that some of this amount is given back in various EU grants doesn't negate this point. Brexit is about taking back control, how is this a lie when the the grants are based on an EU set framework. It is obvious to any one fair minded that pushing for taking control back to the UK from the EU would include all the UK contributions including the amount the EU sent back to the UK. It is not hard to understand this point.

5.Our trade with the EU is less than our trade with the rest of the world. You stating the exact opposite of a known and checkable fact suggests you know feck all about UK trade which doesn't fill me with a great sense that your laughter is anything other than the chuckles of an idiot. EU trade is 12% of UK GDP.

6.The total percentage of people leaving the UK each year is about 0.5%. So the rest of the UK, 99.5% should sacrifice its self interest in order to make it easy for the 0.5%. That makes sense only if you don't give a shit about the people who want to live in the Uk because the most important thing is to make it easy for those who want to leave. I disagree.

7. The worst argument of all arguments made by the remain campaign is democracy doesn't count when the EU disagrees with it. Vote for a govt and the EU will decide what it can and can't do, feck that. I trust the people who live under the laws that they create to get it as close to right as any one over the long term.

I am currently going to vote remain(60-40) but the arguments for remain made here are ill informed shite.
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Your point 2 reminds me of a Mail headline a few years ago that said..."How HALF of all social housing in England goes to people born abroad". The actual figure at the time was 8.6%: it now stands at 9%. Don't fall for the Farage tactics of fear.
 
The Bristsh people will probably make Boris PM if they vote leave.
 
Marching said:
Norway citizens narrowly voted twice against being in the EU as they thought it would harm their fishing industry. However, they are still part of the EU internal market and Schengen Agreement which means they still have to pay into the EU as the other member states do. I'm sick of seeing people say Norway don't pay into the EU and are thriving....they DO pay in and they MUST accept the freedom of movement of people which is what so many Leave campaigners are so concerned about.
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It is worth noting that while they have to accept free movement of people they're also able to unilatterly enforce an emergency brake if they deem neccesary. Which is what Cameron wanted and failed to obtain.

I don't think it's unreasonable for all EU member states to have this as an option, there should be a minimum amount of migration they have to accept of course but at some point they should have control to halt it if it becomes detrimental.

The option alone probably wouldn't quell UKIPers but I think it would sway some of the undecideds.
 
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