EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?

  • Total voters
    653
Status
Not open for further replies.
Going to make my result prediction - Remain by 6%.

Hopefully won't be as off as my GE prediction (about 7%).
 
Rednotdead said:
That doesn't answer my point. Our leaving may have a small or negligible effect on the likes of Germany and France but a significant effect on smaller states, thus our bargaining power vs the EU may be rather stronger than is being stated - unless, of course, Germany and France organise things in their interests. They wouldn't do that though would they?
Click to expand...

These smaller nations would suffer even more if they piss of Germany and France, who would then be the biggest nations in the bloc. They'll gain more with good relations with them than they will with the UK
 
Sadly, pollsters are not that reliable in the UK. I'm basing my opinion totally on the last election cycles. I haven't been following much before then. However as with the Scottish vote -its polls were reliable-, many undecideds is good for the "conservative" choice, that is "Remain". Undecideds are risk averse. If they are around 10% as polls suggest, then I think it would break up to "8%-2%" in favor of Remain.

I'd say final vote would be something like 54-46% . A very rough estimate, mind you. But it won't be as close as the headlines suggest.
 
Adisa said:
You're naive if you think Boris will be good for the NHS.
Click to expand...
Kag said:
And the working poor will be beaten like nothing we've seen before.
Click to expand...

Kag said:
What? Boris will tear the full thing down. Locums everywhere and deaths rates will rise.
Click to expand...
Don't be so silly.

Anyway we still have a democracy left (well a bit of one) so if you don't want Boris or Cameron then vote Labour and stop with the incessant doom-mongering.
 
Cameron I could stomach, but Boris is a complete joke. He is the Kim Kardashian of British Politics, appeals to the masses despite not having a clue and both loved by the Daily Mail.

Anyway just saw John Oliver's Brexit video - absolutely nails it.
 
Red Defence said:
Don't be so silly.

Anyway we still have a democracy left (well a bit of one) so if you don't want Boris or Cameron then vote Labour and stop with the incessant doom-mongering.
Click to expand...

Nothing silly about it. He's one of the most dangerous men in the UK, has been for a long time, and backed by his super-Tory elite he'll create a government the way in which he sees fit. That means the stripping apart (whether it's by the back door or not) of public workers.

People think this current government is bad? Under Johnson we will see strikes akin to the 70s and 80s, I can assure you.

You can be sure as hell I'll be voting for a Labour government, because I pity the poor, young and disabled in our society in a country ruled by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Cameron I could stomach, but Boris is a complete joke. He is the Kim Kardashian of British Politics, appeals to the masses despite not having a clue and both loved by the Daily Mail.

Anyway just saw John Oliver's Brexit video - absolutely nails it.
Click to expand...

This isn't true either, really. Boris has managed to cultivate this impression that he's some kind of loveable idiot. He isn't. He's no joke or buffoon either. He's very intelligent, very cunning and has been working his way into No.10 for over a decade now. This referendum could well dictate his chances of making it.

The debate surrounding Europe doesn't interest me. It won't affect me in any great way. What does interest me (or bother me, rather) is disabled people committing suicide because they no longer have the money to fend for themselves. It's for that reason we need to remain in the UK, defeat the hard right in the Tory party, and live in hope that the other halfwit in charge of Labour gets his shit together, or gets booted out the door.
 
Red Defence said:
Don't be so silly.

Anyway we still have a democracy left (well a bit of one) so if you don't want Boris or Cameron then vote Labour and stop with the incessant doom-mongering.
Click to expand...

You realise we're 1 year into a fixed 5 year term Parliament (thanks Lib Dems for letting them change that...), the only way in which you'd get a chance to vote for Labour over Boris is in 2020, or if he thinks the Labour party are so weak the Tories vote to dissolve their own Parliament?
 
Smores said:
It is worth noting that while they have to accept free movement of people they're also able to unilatterly enforce an emergency brake if they deem neccesary. Which is what Cameron wanted and failed to obtain.

I don't think it's unreasonable for all EU member states to have this as an option, there should be a minimum amount of migration they have to accept of course but at some point they should have control to halt it if it becomes detrimental.

The option alone probably wouldn't quell UKIPers but I think it would sway some of the undecideds.
Click to expand...

Just talking about Norway/EU on BBC2 now.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo

EDIT: Told us nowt new. Seems the Norway PM says being out of the EU has weakened their position in Europe.
 
Last edited:
I was originally very much in the favor of staying, but now I'm very much on the fence. I agree with some of the principles of leaving, but I've not actually seen many arguments (that seem believable or backed up by experts in any way) for leaving that actually say it'll make the country better.

Principles are all well and good, but not a lot of use if the arse falls out of our economy.
 
NinjaFletch said:
You realise we're 1 year into a fixed 5 year term Parliament (thanks Lib Dems for letting them change that...), the only way in which you'd get a chance to vote for Labour over Boris is in 2020, or if he thinks the Labour party are so weak the Tories vote to dissolve their own Parliament?
Click to expand...

Kag said:
Nothing silly about it. He's one of the most dangerous men in the UK, has been for a long time, and backed by his super-Tory elite he'll create a government the way in which he sees fit. That means the stripping apart (whether it's by the back door or not) of public workers.

People think this current government is bad? Under Johnson we will see strikes akin to the 70s and 80s, I can assure you.

You can be sure as hell I'll be voting for a Labour government, because I pity the poor, young and disabled in our society in a country ruled by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
Click to expand...
No-one can be worse than Cameron and Osborne. Certainly not Boris anyway.
 
Red Defence said:
No-one can be worse than Cameron and Osborne. Certainly not Boris anyway.
Click to expand...
You need to read this, mate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Early_career

The following sounds like the worst of kneejerk exaggerations but my honest conclusion after reading the article is this: Boris Johnson would pose as a Nazi, a Communist, a Greenpeace protester, an anarchist or a Conservative if it meant access to power. He is shameless, cavalier and horribly unprofessional in virtually everything he does.
 
Kag said:
Nothing silly about it. He's one of the most dangerous men in the UK, has been for a long time, and backed by his super-Tory elite he'll create a government the way in which he sees fit. That means the stripping apart (whether it's by the back door or not) of public workers.

People think this current government is bad? Under Johnson we will see strikes akin to the 70s and 80s, I can assure you.

You can be sure as hell I'll be voting for a Labour government, because I pity the poor, young and disabled in our society in a country ruled by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
Click to expand...
I agree with your assessment of Boris. He's ruthless, intelligent and supremely self-confident. Don't let anyone be fooled by the mad hair and occasional daft public comments.
 
Kag said:
I can't actually begin to explain how much worse it is certain to be.
Click to expand...

I've always thought Boris had at least some semblance of smarts about him and if I recall correctly he opposed austerity. I wouldn't vote for either but I think I'd prefer Boris over Osbourne and the rest of the cabinet. The prospect of May and Osbourne genuinely scare me.

I think Boris is less likely to be elected than Osbourne so I'm hoping it goes that direction if it has to be one of them.

They go head to head tomorrow so that should be interesting.
 
Kag said:
This isn't true either, really. Boris has managed to cultivate this impression that he's some kind of loveable idiot. He isn't. He's no joke or buffoon either. He's very intelligent, very cunning and has been working his way into No.10 for over a decade now. This referendum could well dictate his chances of making it.

The debate surrounding Europe doesn't interest me. It won't affect me in any great way. What does interest me (or bother me, rather) is disabled people committing suicide because they no longer have the money to fend for themselves. It's for that reason we need to remain in the UK, defeat the hard right in the Tory party, and live in hope that the other halfwit in charge of Labour gets his shit together, or gets booted out the door.
Click to expand...

Fair points. I can even feel myself underestimating him when I wrote that (I still think he is a media-whore mind you, at least more so than the average politician).
 
The clue to Johnson is that he manages to make Cameron & Osborne look like half decent human beings. Boris is supposedly the acceptable face of some people with properly nasty ideas about how things should be. That wing of the Tory Party is ludicrous / not to be trusted / dangerous. All at the same time, somehow.
 
Max Hastings was Telegraph editor when BJ wrote for the paper and says, might be just trying to put him in his place on behalf of others, but even so

''If the day ever comes that Boris Johnson becomes tenant of Downing Street, I shall be among those packing my bags for a new life in Buenos Aires or suchlike, because it means that Britain has abandoned its last pretensions to be a serious country.''
 
Turnip said:
I was originally very much in the favor of staying, but now I'm very much on the fence. I agree with some of the principles of leaving, but I've not actually seen many arguments (that seem believable or backed up by experts in any way) for leaving that actually say it'll make the country better.

Principles are all well and good, but not a lot of use if the arse falls out of our economy.
Click to expand...
what has caused you to drift away from your original position for Remain?
 
Avatar said:
Sadly, pollsters are not that reliable in the UK. I'm basing my opinion totally on the last election cycles. I haven't been following much before then. However as with the Scottish vote -its polls were reliable-, many undecideds is good for the "conservative" choice, that is "Remain". Undecideds are risk averse. If they are around 10% as polls suggest, then I think it would break up to "8%-2%" in favor of Remain.

I'd say final vote would be something like 54-46% . A very rough estimate, mind you. But it won't be as close as the headlines suggest.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to compare the two. The generational divide is twisted 180º — the old favour Leave and the young Remain. The older, risk averse voters in Scotland won it (and there were barely any polls that put Yes ahead). Leave has lead or been neck and neck in the majority of polls since 1st June. The polls this week look slightly more promising for Remain. It's going to be close though: @sun_tzu is winning his grand.
 
SteveJ said:
You need to read this, mate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#Early_career

The following sounds like the worst of kneejerk exaggerations but my honest conclusion after reading the article is this: Boris Johnson would pose as a Nazi, a Communist, a Greenpeace protester, an anarchist or a Conservative if it meant access to power. He is shameless, cavalier and horribly unprofessional in virtually everything he does.
Click to expand...

A great portrait of how dominant cronyism is in this country as well
 
Christopher Chope MP is a mate of BJs from what I can see, the Boris Battle-bus has been to Dorset

from Chope's wiki

''In June 2013 Chope was one of four MPs who camped outside Parliament in a move to facilitate parliamentary debate on what they called an "Alternative Queen’s Speech" -an attempt to show what a future Conservative government might deliver. 42 policies were listed including reintroduction of the death penalty and conscription, privatizing theBBC, banning the burka in public places and preparation to leave the European Union. The Daily Telegraph believed the whips sent Edward Leigh to try and persuade the group not to table the amendments.''
 
According to YouGov, the swing back to Remain (or reversion to the norm) predated the murder.
 
Ubik said:
According to YouGov, the swing back to Remain (or reversion to the norm) predated the murder.
Click to expand...
Can't remember precisely who did which surveys (had a quick look at the polls this morning). Was it YouGov whose data was suggesting the swing started before and continued at a similar rate after? I'm a bit sceptical.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Can't remember precisely who did which surveys (had a quick look at the polls this morning). Was it YouGov whose data was suggesting the swing started before and continued at a similar rate after? I'm a bit sceptical.
Click to expand...

YouGov did two polls (can't remember who for).

One was finished before the murder, the second after with something like 1/3 of results tallied before.

Both gave the same result.
 
I'll be voting to leave, but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future. At least we may have a little more bargaining power if we vote to leave, instead of us falling over and kissing Brussels arse.
I think it'll be similar to the government's desire to change the Sunday trading law. The Sunday shopping proposal was defeated in parliament, but they eventually managed to force it through, because they wanted it so badly. If anything negative happens to the British economy after a possible leave EU vote, governments can blame brexit, and I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.

There are loads of warnings for and against being part of the EU, but the fact is, no one really knows exactly how it will effect us until it happens. But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU. When Cameron says it's a one time vote, that's bollocks. When the government want something, they won't stop till they get it.
 
Wibble said:
It is utter bollocks. Of course you trade something for influence but sovereignty isn't one of those things. The EU isn't a sovereign state. The UK is.
Click to expand...
Yanis Varoufakis(The guy in the video I posted)has said when he was the former Greek minister of finance the euro group threaten him and he's government with the closure of Greek banks. Yes the expert right to say this doesn't effect UK as it one of the big 3 but he's wrong to view this is a positive part of the EU. There is simply a huge problem with democracy and the EU, now voting out won't help to fix any of this and will simply isolate the UK in my opinion anyway, so I guess that sort of makes my point a bit well pointless but it's worth mentioning.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I'll be voting to leave, but I think it will only delay our inevitable joining the EU in the future. At least we may have a little more bargaining power if we vote to leave, instead of us falling over and kissing Brussels arse.
I think it'll be similar to the government's desire to change the Sunday trading law. The Sunday shopping proposal was defeated in parliament, but they eventually managed to force it through, because they wanted it so badly. If anything negative happens to the British economy after a possible leave EU vote, governments can blame brexit, and I can see re-votes happening until we eventually end up in the EU.

There are loads of warnings for and against being part of the EU, but the fact is, no one really knows exactly how it will effect us until it happens. But I'm certain whatever the result of the vote on the 27th, we will eventually end up in the EU. When Cameron says it's a one time vote, that's bollocks. When the government want something, they won't stop till they get it.
Click to expand...

You realise we've been part of the EU for decades and we've voting for whether to leave it or stay in, not whether we should join it, right?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.