ETH Out Thread

[Rojofiam]

The problem is, I'm struggling to find anyone that I'm 100% sure about that they could be our own Pep/Arteta/Klopp level long-term "supermanager" that's excellent in almost every aspect of the managerial trade: man-management, coaching, tactics, talent ID, charisma, etc.

If we appoint someone like McKenna, van Nistelrooy, or some other, relatively unknown name, we can only hope that they're gonna be the one, but most of us (me included) are way too uninformed about them to have a reliable opinion on them. Like Liverpool appointing Slot. Who was, and still is qualified to give a credible opinion on him other than the Feyenoord fans and Eredivisie followers on here? However, they do seem to be promising managers and good tacticians in the case of RvN and McKenna.

Also, I'm sure there are promising candidates like that out there, and the people at the club that will be tasked with finding a manager will definitely know way more about them than 99.99% of us on here do. Liverpool found Slot, Inter found Inzaghi, Arsenal found Arteta, etc. It's impossible that Manchester United, the third biggest club in the world, the biggest one in England, one of the most resourceful clubs in the world, and arguably the one whose managerial position is one of the most prestigious ones in world football, and comes with the highest risk-highest reward ratio, cannot find someone like that. The money is good, too. Any manager would love to have it on their CV that they were the first truly successful manager at this club after Sir Alex Ferguson. It would improve every single manager's CV that's currently alive. It's an immediate entry into the Hall of Fame IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not presenting the "no suitable replacement" argument, because I don't believe that's the case, but I definitely wouldn't swap ETH for anyone, especially for disasters waiting to happen like Allegri, Pochettino, or Conte, for example.

I also don't believe that we just need to go for a huge name and they'll be successful. I firmly believe the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti would be a disaster here. They're not rebuilders, and aren't used to the "dog eat dog" environment of the Premier League either, especially in charge of the biggest club in the Premier League. Even if they shit the bed at Madrid, player quality can bail them out and a catastrophic season still won't have them finish lower than 3rd in La Liga and QFs in the CL. You go on a 5 game winless run in the Premier League, and suddenly your title challenge becomes a top 4 race with 0% of recovering from your bad run of form.

 

[Sandikan]

How much is it costing us by sticking with a manager that's going nowhere. Pissing away the season and it's not even October...

It's amazing deja vu as this has been said with at least 3 different managers this last decade.
What we learn is United never sack early. We like to wait for all targets to be missed.

 

[17Larsson]

Two away games next and then the international break. He has two games left and then he's gone

 

[golden_blunder]

Honestly I think the players can't handle the badge on their chest, some embrace it and kick on, others it weighs them down and they sink. Sadly I think a lot of the squad are weighed down with expectations and can't rise to the challenge. If a manager knows that is happening he is powerless to turn that around.

There may be an element of that in one or 2, Zirkzee and Ugarte probably need time to settle but the others are all experienced players who have played at big teams and international football. Sure, we have done kids too but they have gone through the ranks and if anything it’s the kids who have been the best so far.

No, I just think that this manager can’t get a tune out of them. He doesn’t recognize that against better teams the match is won or lost in midfield. What worked in Holland against poorer teams won’t work in the PL where even the poorer teams have good players capable of turning you over.

 

[Rojofiam]

I hate this feeling when you want your team to lose just to get rid of an inept manager.

I've never ever had this feeling, mate, under any manager.

 

[Sandikan]

I suspected we'd want to reach the international break before making a decision, looks like we're going to. People are angry and just want to punish ETH by sacking him now, but we're probably getting ready to travel to Portugal tomorrow and then have another game on Sunday. Its an awkward moment for the wheels to come off. This doesn't feel like a Mourinho situation where the dressing room is so toxic that there will be a huge uplift of energy as soon as he goes. Quite simply, I don't think we're any more likely to win the next two games by dumping this mess on Ruud's plate and asking him to sort it out. So there's little lost by waiting til the break and deciding then.

The wait until the international break is often mooted but have we actually ever sacked our manager around one?

 

[GoodTimes]

Oh how will we survive when this beacon of footballing genius “goes and wins trophies elsewhere”?!

Narcissistic wanker!

 

[Acquire Me]

I hate this feeling when you want your team to lose just to get rid of an inept manager. I’m sure he’ll somehow manage to win one of the next two coming games and therefore stay safe for another month. If at least he was a tad bit likeable you could cheer for the team.

Even though I realise that a loss might benefit us, it's impossible to want to lose. Hell if I do.
That said, there's no doubt that if we'd lost that FA Cup final, Ten Hag wouldn't be our manager today. But what a beautiful FA Cup final it was.

 

[quadrant]

The wait until the international break is often mooted but have we actually ever sacked our manager around one?

There needs to be an international break in the near future for that to even be an option.

 

[Devil77]

Even though I realise that a loss might benefit us, it's impossible to want to lose. Hell if I do.
That said, there's no doubt that if we'd lost that FA Cup final, Ten Hag wouldn't be our manager today. But what a beautiful FA Cup final it was.

Yeah! It sucks really. I wish we could’ve gotten the best of two worlds. A cup win AND a new manager.

 

[Rooney24]

There needs to be an international break in the near future for that to even be an option.

There’s one after next weekend

 

[Devil77]

I've never ever had this feeling, mate, under any manager.

It’s not like you’re wanting the team to lose beforehand. But when the game starts, we play like shit, the opposition scores for fun. Then it’s like: ”feck this, just lose so we can shake things up and move forward”.

 

[Buster15]

There's no way in hell Klopp would come to us, even for mega bucks.

Tuchel is the obvious one, available, managed big clubs before. Won the CL etc

Southgate is not ideal for his style of play, but at least he has a style that would work to some extent, over whatever this is ETH has got us doing.

Potter would be an interesting one, took Chelsea at the wrong time, impossible trying to make 200 new players gel and get instant results.

Thomas Frank is a name I keep hearing mentioned. Wouldn't be the worst decision in the world. I do think we should go for someone who has managed in the PL and even better currently managing. Knows the teams inside out, expectations etc.

Don't think it's quite the right time for McKenna, really want to see how his Ipswich journey ends too without us ruining him.

Ineos have a big job on their hands.

You are probably right about Klopp.
I thought Tuchel did a good job with Chelsea and is a big enough personality.

I do think that Ineos may well choose to go with a Coach, not a manager so they can just focus on the first team.

 

[Rojofiam]

It’s not like you’re wanting the team to lose beforehand. But when the game starts, we play like shit, the opposition scores for fun. Then it’s like: ”feck this, just lose so we can shake things up and move forward”.

Yesterday, I did stop caring after their 2nd goal, because I knew we were never coming back into that game, especially 10v11. I'm at the point where I was so eagerly awaiting the new season, and a few weeks later I don't mind that another international break is coming up soon

 

[Annihilate Now!]

There's no way in hell Klopp would come to us, even for mega bucks.

Tuchel is the obvious one, available, managed big clubs before. Won the CL etc

Southgate is not ideal for his style of play, but at least he has a style that would work to some extent, over whatever this is ETH has got us doing.

Potter would be an interesting one, took Chelsea at the wrong time, impossible trying to make 200 new players gel and get instant results.

Thomas Frank is a name I keep hearing mentioned. Wouldn't be the worst decision in the world. I do think we should go for someone who has managed in the PL and even better currently managing. Knows the teams inside out, expectations etc.

Don't think it's quite the right time for McKenna, really want to see how his Ipswich journey ends too without us ruining him.

Ineos have a big job on their hands.

If thats our thinking, I'd be going for Marco Silva over Thomas Frank.

 

[quadrant]

There’s one after next weekend

We were talking about previous managers.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I've just listened to his post match press conference, either he is doing a Fergie and protecting his players, or he's completely in a world of his own.
He's had the money, as far as we know the board have bought the players he wants, or the ones his scouts have recommended to him, on the last few games, these players are just not up to it, they are not up to the premeirship.

 

[Red_toad]

Can’t comprehend how the known issues with Ten Hag’s game plan can’t be resolved by him. How doesn’t one of the coaches have a word in his shell?

 

[Matt Varnish]

There's no way in hell Klopp would come to us, even for mega bucks.

Tuchel is the obvious one, available, managed big clubs before. Won the CL etc

Southgate is not ideal for his style of play, but at least he has a style that would work to some extent, over whatever this is ETH has got us doing.

Potter would be an interesting one, took Chelsea at the wrong time, impossible trying to make 200 new players gel and get instant results.

Thomas Frank is a name I keep hearing mentioned. Wouldn't be the worst decision in the world. I do think we should go for someone who has managed in the PL and even better currently managing. Knows the teams inside out, expectations etc.

Don't think it's quite the right time for McKenna, really want to see how his Ipswich journey ends too without us ruining him.

Ineos have a big job on their hands.

Didn't Tuchel say in the summer that he was unavailable when the rumours about United looking for a manager were doing the rounds?

 

[leontas]

The problem is, I'm struggling to find anyone that I'm 100% sure about that they could be our own Pep/Arteta/Klopp level long-term "supermanager" that's excellent in almost every aspect of the managerial trade: man-management, coaching, tactics, talent ID, charisma, etc.

If we appoint someone like McKenna, van Nistelrooy, or some other, relatively unknown name, we can only hope that they're gonna be the one, but most of us (me included) are way too uninformed about them to have a reliable opinion on them. Like Liverpool appointing Slot. Who was, and still is qualified to give a credible opinion on him other than the Feyenoord fans and Eredivisie followers on here? However, they do seem to be promising managers and good tacticians in the case of RvN and McKenna.

Also, I'm sure there are promising candidates like that out there, and the people at the club that will be tasked with finding a manager will definitely know way more about them than 99.99% of us on here do. Liverpool found Slot, Inter found Inzaghi, Arsenal found Arteta, etc. It's impossible that Manchester United, the third biggest club in the world, the biggest one in England, one of the most resourceful clubs in the world, and arguably the one whose managerial position is one of the most prestigious ones in world football, and comes with the highest risk-highest reward ratio, cannot find someone like that. The money is good, too. Any manager would love to have it on their CV that they were the first truly successful manager at this club after Sir Alex Ferguson. It would improve every single manager's CV that's currently alive. It's an immediate entry into the Hall of Fame IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not presenting the "no suitable replacement" argument, because I don't believe that's the case, but I definitely wouldn't swap ETH for anyone, especially for disasters waiting to happen like Allegri, Pochettino, or Conte, for example.

I also don't believe that we just need to go for a huge name and they'll be successful. I firmly believe the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti would be a disaster here. They're not rebuilders, and aren't used to the "dog eat dog" environment of the Premier League either, especially in charge of the biggest club in the Premier League. Even if they shit the bed at Madrid, player quality can bail them out and a catastrophic season still won't have them finish lower than 3rd in La Liga and QFs in the CL. You go on a 5 game winless run in the Premier League, and suddenly your title challenge becomes a top 4 race with 0% of recovering from your bad run of form.

We don't need to find the perfect manager. I don't get why we treat the hiring of managers like we are trying to find the perfect life partner. It's just a job. We interview a few candidates and appoint the person we think has done well in the interview process to convey how he would fix the current issues and who has a vision that aligns with how Ashworth and co. want to play. If they fail, then we look for another manager. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to SAF to think that any manager + enough time will equal to success - it doesn't work that way. SAF was just special.

I have trust in Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox (for now) to be able to identify the right person to move us forward. And I agree with you - it doesn't have to be a big name or someone who is obviously a disaster waiting to happen. Arteta has done well but he wasn't an obvious success from the beginning. The only sure successes are Pep and Klopp and we can't get them so we'll just have to trust the people in charge to identify the best candidate for the job. All I know for sure is that it's not ETH.

 

[space]

I think we just need a decent manager in and things will begin to work. Moyes was shit, LVG was okay but old fashioned, Jose was okay but on the downward trend, Ole/Ralf were a joke and now ETH was a risk that only ever worked while we had the last months of prime Casemiro. We move on and find someone else, at least this time the squad is young with some decent depth.

 

[Melville Red]

The problem is, I'm struggling to find anyone that I'm 100% sure about that they could be our own Pep/Arteta/Klopp level long-term "supermanager" that's excellent in almost every aspect of the managerial trade: man-management, coaching, tactics, talent ID, charisma, etc.

If we appoint someone like McKenna, van Nistelrooy, or some other, relatively unknown name, we can only hope that they're gonna be the one, but most of us (me included) are way too uninformed about them to have a reliable opinion on them. Like Liverpool appointing Slot. Who was, and still is qualified to give a credible opinion on him other than the Feyenoord fans and Eredivisie followers on here? However, they do seem to be promising managers and good tacticians in the case of RvN and McKenna.

Also, I'm sure there are promising candidates like that out there, and the people at the club that will be tasked with finding a manager will definitely know way more about them than 99.99% of us on here do. Liverpool found Slot, Inter found Inzaghi, Arsenal found Arteta, etc. It's impossible that Manchester United, the third biggest club in the world, the biggest one in England, one of the most resourceful clubs in the world, and arguably the one whose managerial position is one of the most prestigious ones in world football, and comes with the highest risk-highest reward ratio, cannot find someone like that. The money is good, too. Any manager would love to have it on their CV that they were the first truly successful manager at this club after Sir Alex Ferguson. It would improve every single manager's CV that's currently alive. It's an immediate entry into the Hall of Fame IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not presenting the "no suitable replacement" argument, because I don't believe that's the case, but I definitely wouldn't swap ETH for anyone, especially for disasters waiting to happen like Allegri, Pochettino, or Conte, for example.

I also don't believe that we just need to go for a huge name and they'll be successful. I firmly believe the likes of Zidane and Ancelotti would be a disaster here. They're not rebuilders, and aren't used to the "dog eat dog" environment of the Premier League either, especially in charge of the biggest club in the Premier League. Even if they shit the bed at Madrid, player quality can bail them out and a catastrophic season still won't have them finish lower than 3rd in La Liga and QFs in the CL. You go on a 5 game winless run in the Premier League, and suddenly your title challenge becomes a top 4 race with 0% of recovering from your bad run of form.

I watched Ipswich v Villa before the Utd game yesterday and followed Ipswich last season when they were on the telly.
Yesterday Ipswich played like a team, sure Villa had the better players, that’s to be expected but McKenna gets Ipswich playing like a well oiled machine. Both in possession and out of possession Ipswich were very good and if it wasn’t for one individual mistake whilst clearing the ball which fell straight to a Villa player then Ipswich may well have won.
They have only lost two games so far, to Liverpool and City.
I know he has signed a big contract at Ipswich but that shouldn’t be a problem, Utd do have some good players we just need a coach to get the best out of them collectively and I think he is the one.

 

[Rojofiam]

We don't need to find the perfect manager. I don't get why we treat the hiring of managers like we are trying to find the perfect life partner. It's just a job. We interview a few candidates and appoint the person we think has done well in the interview process to convey how he would fix the current issues and who has a vision that aligns with how Ashworth and co. want to play. If they fail, then we look for another manager. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to SAF to think that any manager + enough time will equal to success - it doesn't work that way. SAF was just special.

I have trust in Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox (for now) to be able to identify the right person to move us forward. And I agree with you - it doesn't have to be a big name or someone who is obviously a disaster waiting to happen. Arteta has done well but he wasn't an obvious success from the beginning. The only sure successes are Pep and Klopp and we can't get them so we'll just have to trust the people in charge to identify the best candidate for the job. All I know for sure is that it's not ETH.

Because we are in the most difficult era in Premier League history, with most teams having good-to-great managers, especially at the top. And the current top dog, Manchester City, are managed by the greatest manager of all time, in an environment specifically created for him over several years prior to his arrival by his Barcelona mates, whilst being bankrolled by a nation state. We won't achieve our goals if our manager is just alright, even if we have a Real Madrid/Manchester City/Arsenal level squad. Maybe it would've been enough between 2013-2017, but not anymore. And when Pep leaves, and/or City get severely punished, it will be Arsenal's league to lose and they'll be similarly difficult to overcome over a 38 game season, unless another contender to the throne massively evolves before that happens. But the gap between us and Arsenal is very, very big right now. The others, though, not so much.

I also have trust in our new structure, I agree you on that one.

 

[Matt Varnish]

There may be an element of that in one or 2, Zirkzee and Ugarte probably need time to settle but the others are all experienced players who have played at big teams and international football. Sure, we have done kids too but they have gone through the ranks and if anything it’s the kids who have been the best so far.

No, I just think that this manager can’t get a tune out of them. He doesn’t recognize that against better teams the match is won or lost in midfield. What worked in Holland against poorer teams won’t work in the PL where even the poorer teams have good players capable of turning you over.

ETH is not a motivator,
Can you imagine Fergies team talk at half time?
"Ok we are a man down, and a goal down, but this is Spurs"!

 

[stefan92]

Didn't Tuchel say in the summer that he was unavailable when the rumours about United looking for a manager were doing the rounds?

That reports only emerged after allegedly meeting with Ratcliffe. I think this was a face-saving way of Tuchel to decline the offer politely.

 

[Devil81]

For me he should be gone today, what's the point letting him mess two more games up for us. Get rid and hope the temp manager can get a lift for a few matches.

We're just pissing the season down the drain with ETH.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I watched Ipswich v Villa before the Utd game yesterday and followed Ipswich last season when they were on the telly.
Yesterday Ipswich played like a team, sure Villa had the better players, that’s to be expected but McKenna gets Ipswich playing like a well oiled machine. Both in possession and out of possession Ipswich were very good and if it wasn’t for one individual mistake whilst clearing the ball which fell straight to a Villa player then Ipswich may well have won.
They have only lost two games so far, to Liverpool and City.
I know he has signed a big contract at Ipswich but that shouldn’t be a problem, Utd do have some good players we just need a coach to get the best out of them collectively and I think he is the one.

i watched the highlights of that game on MOTD, it's called motivation and desire, Delap is better than anything we have not because he is a better player, but because he wants to bust a gut for his manager, in fact all the team do, I don;t see that in the United players.

 

[hn4united]

He’s gone for sure imo. He’s not turning this around. We need to hire a proven manager. No more young and unproven in the premier league.

 

[Rojofiam]

I watched Ipswich v Villa before the Utd game yesterday and followed Ipswich last season when they were on the telly.
Yesterday Ipswich played like a team, sure Villa had the better players, that’s to be expected but McKenna gets Ipswich playing like a well oiled machine. Both in possession and out of possession Ipswich were very good and if it wasn’t for one individual mistake whilst clearing the ball which fell straight to a Villa player then Ipswich may well have won.
They have only lost two games so far, to Liverpool and City.
I know he has signed a big contract at Ipswich but that shouldn’t be a problem, Utd do have some good players we just need a coach to get the best out of them collectively and I think he is the one.

I agree with this post, and from what I've seen from Ipswich under McKenna, both in the Premier League and the Championship, I've been impressed and I view him as a potential future candidate for the United job. Whether that's now, summer 2025, or further into the future, I don't know, and it isn't for me to decide. But I like what I've seen.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Because we are in the most difficult era in Premier League history, with most teams having good-to-great managers, especially at the top. And the current top dog, Manchester City, are managed by the greatest manager of all time, in an environment specifically created for him over several years prior to his arrival by his Barcelona mates, whilst being bankrolled by a nation state. We won't achieve our goals if our manager is just alright, even if we have a Real Madrid/Manchester City/Arsenal level squad. Maybe it would've been enough between 2013-2017, but not anymore. And when Pep leaves, and/or City get severely punished, it will be Arsenal's league to lose and they'll be similarly difficult to overcome over a 38 game season, unless another contender to the throne massively evolves before that happens. But the gap between us and Arsenal is very, very big right now. The others, though, not so much.

I also have trust in our new structure, I agree you on that one.

Anyone can do a Pep when you have a limitless supply of money that has yet to be proven to legal

 

[soapythecat]

The argument of who we replace with is just fecking retarded. There are many, many managers who could get a better tune out of this set of players but it’s for the club to find them. Doesn’t need to be an elite manager because we are supposed to have a great structure. We are currently a mid table (at best) team so replacing him with AI would be an upgrade at this time. He needs to go now before the rot is set too deep.

 

[Crimson King]

This post just illustrates how far we’ve fallen, we “miss Shaw and Hojlund” a crocked LB who is getting on for 30 and has had a couple of decent seasons in a decade, and a young forward who looks no better than good potential who has seen the treatment table more than the scoresheet

I didn't say we missed them, I just said they were the only players missing from what would arguably be the 'strongest 11' at moment.

I don't think we will really miss any particular player at the moment because the team has severe structural issues that hinders all the players, one way or another.

 

[SATA]

Would anyone say no to Unai Emery? Although I think he’ll be bonkers to leave Villa right now. Nagelsmann is the manager i want the club to go for but he seems comfortable enough as Germany manager

 

[Zed 101]

Anyone can do a Pep when you have a limitless supply of money that has yet to be proven to legal

Man City's lack of success pre Pep despite huge expenditure is evidence that is not correct, likewise Chelsea's inconsistency, and lets face it the money we have spent.... I hate Pep and ticca-tacca, but he is the best manager I have ever seen, yes he has had any player he wants and has never proved himself at a club without resources, but that proves nothing, he is unassailable, even SAF, Wenger and Mourinho never set the bar so high, the points total year after year is just ridiculous... for me it damages the premier league having such high levels but that is what Pep has managed

 

[quadrant]

Man City's lack of success pre Pep despite huge expenditure is evidence that is not correct, likewise Chelsea's inconsistency, and lets face it the money we have spent.... I hate Pep and ticca-tacca, but he is the best manager I have ever seen, yes he has had any player he wants and has never proved himself at a club without resources, but that proves nothing, he is unassailable, even SAF, Wenger and Mourinho never set the bar so high, the points total year after year is just ridiculous... for me it damages the premier league having such high levels but that is what Pep has managed

I agree Pap is outstanding. But in the 5 seasons before Pep arrived they finished 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd then 4th. So I don't think that comment is quite right.

 

[Rojofiam]

Anyone can do a Pep when you have a limitless supply of money that has yet to be proven to legal

I don't think so. In Europe, I agree, he often messed it up for themselves, but in the league, he's almost unbeatable.

 

[Speako]

A team ultimately mirrors their manager, and we do exactly that.

The match goers yesterday tried their best to get behind the team, but I purposely watched him throughout the first 30 minutes , and there was nothing. No change, no inspiration, no guidance, no shouting, no guile, no clue, no belief. Just stood there, shaking his head, looking bewildered. And what the hell he’s actually doing on the training paddock through the week, god knows.

It felt like the inevitable end after about ten minutes yesterday. And it has to happen now. I know there is no ready made replacement, but that can’t be the reason for this farce to remain.

Time to go. It’ll actually be interesting what level of team gives him another go. Not sure even Twente would go near him at the moment.

 

[dweb]

Would anyone say no to Unai Emery? Although I think he’ll be bonkers to leave Villa right now. Nagelsmann is the manager i want the club to go for but he seems comfortable enough as Germany manager

I'd take him in a heartbeat.

 

[Buster15]

With some justification, it can be argued that the players had a big part in the failure of Moyes, José (downed tools) and Ole.

But on this occasion, that is not the case at all.
They simply don't seem to understand how to play the way he wants.
And to be honest I really don't think he understands what he wants either.

It has all got on top of him and he is drowning in problems, mostly his own making.

To have reappointed him on the basis of one good performance was highly questionable at best.
And now they have to accept they made a mistake and appoint someone intelligent and tough enough to get to grips with the problem.
Just look at what Chelsea have done.

 

[Buster15]

I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Yes definitely.