Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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crossy1686 said:
Sancho has been shit for 2 years, he's never shown anything but glimpses of form. He's more trouble than he's worth at this point and we should have sold him in the summer.

But at the same time Ten Hag does this thing where he doesn't give a shit about players he didn't sign and he throws them to the wolves with his tactics (that they can't do) and his comments, instead of realising that you have to get the best out of all the players at your disposal if you're going to be successful.
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How did he throw him to the wolves? He granted him 2 months off last season to focus on himself and protected him from the media. Imagine having the audacity to even complain on social media when you were given preferential treatment.

He's given Sancho far too much leeway and this isn't the first time Sancho's been criticized for poor effort in training.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Not better, because Jose wanted Maguire and also got Lukaku to replace Ibra.

Then proceeded to push for a finished Sanchez that killed our wage structure.

Jose was finished and deservedly stop getting backed.
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He also wanted a load shipping out including Pogba, Martial and Sanchez, so at least he knew they had to go.
 
Son said:
Apart from Shaw who proved him wrong Mourinho was proved right on Pogba and Martial.

Funny how both played well with something to prove after Jose left then just went back to old ways soon after the buzz wore off.
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Yeah but Mourinho was right about Shaw at the time. Perhaps it was the kick up the arse Shaw needed. Good players will respond to criticism by wanting to prove people wrong. Losers like Martial and Sancho get defensive and sulk, thinking they are never to blame
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
How did he throw him to the wolves? He granted him 2 months off last season to focus on himself and protected him from the media. Imagine having the audacity to even complain on social media when you were given preferential treatment.

He's given Sancho far too much leeway and this isn't the first time Sancho's been criticized for poor effort in training.
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Not Sancho, other players like Maguire or McTomminay. Limited players who can't do the job he wants them to do so therefore he has no use for them. Sancho's a waster and needs booting out ASAP.
 
crossy1686 said:
He also wanted a load shipping out including Pogba, Martial and Sanchez, so at least he knew they had to go.
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He brought in Sanchez though!

Pogba and Martial also saved him for getting sacked earlier during the Newcastle comeback.

Martial was in pretty good form during the 2017-2018 season at some point. Mourinho then decides to bring in Sanchez and make him the marquee man. Martial's form falls off a cliff(he's not blameless in this too I'll admit) and then Sanchez proceeds to be one of our worst ever signings.
 
crossy1686 said:
Not Sancho, other players like Maguire or McTomminay. Limited players who can't do the job he wants them to do so therefore he has no use for them. Sancho's a waster and needs booting out ASAP.
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I mean, people here keep saying we need to cull the deadwood. If they're limited in his view and can't do the job he wants, what's the problem?

Maguire came on yesterday and our ball progression from the back immediately got worse.

I agree on Sancho though. This would be strike 3 for me. His statement on social media is a disgrace and I'm tired of entitlement from athletes when they were given preferential treatment beforehand.
 
Shakesy said:
He did it to himself.

We ALL wanted Sancho
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I did want Sancho too, but a good amount on here said he'd displace Rashford from our first XI and I argued plenty of times that Rashford's a better player than him(prior to the move).
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I did want Sancho too, but a good amount on here said he'd displace Rashford from our first XI and I argued plenty of times that Rashford's a better player than him(prior to the move).
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You win then.

Fact is, we all change our opinions all the time. Nothing wrong with praising pre-United Sancho and then ripping him to shreds five years later. But don't go say something like "I never wanted him in the first place".
 
Sancho clearly has issues. We have never seen anything at United that is remotely close to the player Dortmund had.
 
That's it for me, and if I am ETH that should be enough is enough, and I hope the club fully support him. Sancho has done sweet f*** all since he has been there, was given space and time when he had his 'problems' and now look.

Let him rot with the reserves. Manchester United have had many, many, many players who are a million times the player Sancho is, and they have never acted, or reacted like this to internal matters.

Sancho plays for ETH. It isn't the other way around.
 
Shakesy said:
You win then.

Fact is, we all change our opinions all the time. Nothing wrong with praising pre-United Sancho and then ripping him to shreds five years later. But don't go say something like "I never wanted him in the first place".
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That is true.

I remember most on here were ripping the United board to shreds for not locking up the move in 2020.

In the end, the move hasn't worked out and I think Sancho/United should part ways next summer to benefit both parties(I admit I'm unaware of the FFP repercussions if we got rid next summer).

He's not going to make it here, and we need players who can make a positive impact.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I mean, people here keep saying we need to cull the deadwood. If they're limited in his view and can't do the job he wants, what's the problem?

Maguire came on yesterday and our ball progression from the back immediately got worse.

I agree on Sancho though. This would be strike 3 for me. His statement on social media is a disgrace and I'm tired of entitlement from athletes when they were given preferential treatment beforehand.
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We do need to cull them, they're not good enough to play for us, but between now and next summer (maybe longer) they do, so during that time you need to get the best out of them otherwise they will get you sacked.

When Maguire and Evans came on yesterday we stopped playing out from the back, which was a good move all round, but we were still leaving loads of space in the middle for Arsenal to get at them easily, and this is what Ten Hag does, he just exposes players so he can show they're not good enough instead of protecting the result. We should have gone compact and deep, settled for the draw/wait for Arsenal to over commit themselves so we could get in behind with our pace.

There was no real mistakes yesterday from any of the players, we just have one system and that's it. The manager can't adapt on the fly to the players he has on the pitch.

Sancho himself is a disgrace, he's pissed off every manager he's worked under with his attitude and behaviour, even Pep was sick of him when he left City.
 
Lyng said:
Sancho clearly has issues. We have never seen anything at United that is remotely close to the player Dortmund had.
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Sometimes players can't adapt to the pressure.

With all due respect to Dortmund, he's always going to have less pressure there than at United.
 
crossy1686 said:
We do need to cull them, they're not good enough to play for us, but between now and next summer (maybe longer) they do, so during that time you need to get the best out of them otherwise they will get you sacked.

When Maguire and Evans came on yesterday we stopped playing out from the back, which was a good move all round, but we were still leaving loads of space in the middle for Arsenal to get at them easily, and this is what Ten Hag does, he just exposes players so he can show they're not good enough instead of protecting the result. We should have gone compact and deep, settled for the draw/wait for Arsenal to over commit themselves so we could get in behind with our pace.
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You believe Ten Hag deliberately hangs players out to dry in matches so we can lose to prove a point?

Surely you see the lunacy in believing something like that?
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
You believe Ten Hag deliberately hangs players out to dry in matches so we can lose to prove a point?

Surely you see the lunacy in believing something like that?
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No, I believe Ten Hag can't adapt to the players he has because he only sees one way to play the game, and then he gets pissed off with the players that can't do what he wants them to do so he gives them multiple chances to adapt and they can't because they're too limited.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Sometimes players can't adapt to the pressure.

With all due respect to Dortmund, he's always going to have less pressure there than at United.
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While that is true, that doesnt really account for his drop in fitness levels in my opinion.
I dont think Sancho will ever become good enough here.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Sometimes players can't adapt to the pressure.

With all due respect to Dortmund, he's always going to have less pressure there than at United.
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Feck Dortmund, massive disrespect to them and their shitty little selling club with zero ambition. They create an environment where it's okay to fail because you can leave for Bayern at some point on a free anyway.
 
crossy1686 said:
No, I believe Ten Hag can't adapt to the players he has because he only sees one way to play the game, and then he gets pissed off with the players that can't do what he wants them to do so he gives them multiple chances to adapt and they can't because they're too limited.
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Don't you think he adapted last season though?

He tried playing out from the back initially with De Gea and stopped it after the Brentford disaster.
 
Lyng said:
While that is true, that doesnt really account for his drop in fitness levels in my opinion.
I dont think Sancho will ever become good enough here.
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I don't think it's a drop from his fitness levels.

Other managers criticized him for poor application in training before too.

At this point, he is who he is. He's also a spoiled brat going by his social media response and refuses to accept any accountability.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Almost as though man management involves different approaches for different people. Crazy, right?
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I think it's quite obvious Martial can't physically do more than he did yesterday, he's completely shot at this level, his body has given up. There's no value in saying he didn't do enough when the reality is he would probably hurt himself if he did any more. Sancho on the other hand has no excuses for being a lazy bastard.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Don't you think he adapted last season though?

He tried playing out from the back initially with De Gea and stopped it after the Brentford disaster.
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He did to a degree last season after it went to shit, and then we still tried it at multiple points later in the season, like the Sevilla debacle. He always reverts back to his ideals instead of coming up with a game plan to win the game. It's like playing out from the back is more important to him than winning the game sometimes.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I don't think it's a drop from his fitness levels.

Other managers criticized him for poor application in training before too.

At this point, he is who he is. He's also a spoiled brat going by his social media response and refuses to accept any accountability.
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I think there is a clear drop, and I think the reason is that he isnt professional enough, like you allude to in your comment.
Move him on in January if possible.
 
DickDastardly said:
Yep.

He called out Garnacho.

He called out Marcus and blatantly states he's punished.

Their responses? Work harder and respect the manager.

Jadons response? My 7 year old acts more mature then that. Not a whole lot but still, he's 7 ffs.
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I genuinely forgot about the Marcus one, mainly because he didn't make a big deal out of it!
 
crossy1686 said:
He did to a degree last season after it went to shit, and then we still tried it at multiple points later in the season, like the Sevilla debacle. He always reverts back to his ideals instead of coming up with a game plan to win the game. It's like playing out from the back is more important to him than winning the game sometimes.
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But by your admission, we stopped doing it vs Arsenal after our substitutions.

I don't think ETH is an idealist who can't adapt. I actually think he adapted too much last season personally and should have stuck to his ideals more.
 
Escobar said:
And shows the attitude he generally has. He never really pushes on or fights hard
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Pretty up sums up Jason Sancho. It’s fine being super talented and having all the technical quality in the world but if you aren’t filling to compete and fight on the pitch then you won’t make it - at least not at the highest level. If this is the best he can muster after all the patience we’ve had with him then he should just head back to the Bundesliga where attackers are given the red carpet treatment.
 
pocco said:
The fact ETH has done this, which seems out of character, tells me he might be feeling the pressure a bit. Probably quite stressed after being called out for tactics and things like that by journos and pundits over the last month or so.
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Oh please. It was hardly anything. He’s said he did
Nit perform in training. That’s literally it.
 
I still don't know what to make of this. If I am to wager my guess, it could very well be Ten Hag losing his patience and that he feels it's time to bring out his stick. It's been all carrots with Sancho and no stick.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I genuinely forgot about the Marcus one, mainly because he didn't make a big deal out of it!
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Rashford even admitted he was at fault.

Sancho should have kept quiet and focused on training better. No one bats an eye then on ETH's answer.

He came off like a complete clown with his statement. How did his agent not advise him on this? He's gained absolutely nothing from his statement and lost so much more.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
But by your admission, we stopped doing it vs Arsenal after our substitutions.

I don't think ETH is an idealist who can't adapt. I actually think he adapted too much last season personally and should have stuck to his ideals more.
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I know, and that's just one example which was good, but we didn't change shape, we should have packed the midfield in front of them to protect them and force Arsenal into crossing the ball so Maguire and Evans could win the headers (play to their strengths) then wait for the right moment to counter and do Arsenal at the death. I don't feel that Ten Hag is willing to make those tactical changes in the game because it goes against what he stands for.

I think he did what he had to do last year to keep himself in a job. He'll do the same this year now the window has shut and everyone's coming back to fitness.
 
crossy1686 said:
We do need to cull them, they're not good enough to play for us, but between now and next summer (maybe longer) they do, so during that time you need to get the best out of them otherwise they will get you sacked.

When Maguire and Evans came on yesterday we stopped playing out from the back, which was a good move all round, but we were still leaving loads of space in the middle for Arsenal to get at them easily, and this is what Ten Hag does, he just exposes players so he can show they're not good enough instead of protecting the result. We should have gone compact and deep, settled for the draw/wait for Arsenal to over commit themselves so we could get in behind with our pace.

There was no real mistakes yesterday from any of the players, we just have one system and that's it. The manager can't adapt on the fly to the players he has on the pitch.

Sancho himself is a disgrace, he's pissed off every manager he's worked under with his attitude and behaviour, even Pep was sick of him when he left City.
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Sancho hasnt been good, maybe even as you described him but my barometer is based on what the greatest manager would do. SAF would have said FA, and Sancho would be gone in Jan...
 
Judging what Sancho put on his twitter/insta or whatever, looks like a Ronaldo mk II situation. Surely a better chance of him and Ten Hag resolving this though and him staying, considering him leaving wasn't really asked for by the club or the fans right?
 
Shakesy said:
You win then.

Fact is, we all change our opinions all the time. Nothing wrong with praising pre-United Sancho and then ripping him to shreds five years later. But don't go say something like "I never wanted him in the first place".
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I’ve never made a mistake like that :)

What is curious is we’re 800 opinion pieces in after 12 hours, mostly night time to many here, based on one sentence plus one X-message. 25 of them asks what has happened , 25 of them crazily asks for Ten Hag’s head because we lost last night, and 750 of them slams Sancho, characterizes him, re-presents previous wrongdoings et. The total media is full of this stuff.

It strikes me that the challenge of communicting for a Ten Hag or a Sancho is not to do with hearing a press conference and writing a message, it’s about simultaneously being aware of and still ignoring completely the hoards of people out here that will react to it, twisting and echoing it. Most of us are no better than @marktan, we misremember stuff and writes with great certainty stuff that is untrue and we have little way of being sure about. If you are a footballer, and read 1000 public messages like that (you shouldn’t) or get messages of support or astonishment from people close to you (‘did you hear what he said about you!?’), it’s maybe more understandable if you do something stupid as writing a message to defend yourself. You shouldn’t, but many pro footballers are not the sharpest thinkers.

We’ll see what happens, I guess.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I genuinely forgot about the Marcus one, mainly because he didn't make a big deal out of it!
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Exactly.

We don't even know what it was.
Erik was asked, he sad it was "internal disciplinary issue". Good.

We all said, lay down the law.
Marcus probably apologized put his head down and worked harder.


pocco said:
The fact ETH has done this, which seems out of character, tells me he might be feeling the pressure a bit. Probably quite stressed after being called out for tactics and things like that by journos and pundits over the last month or so.
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There's nothing out of character in this.

The man was asked a question, he answered it truthfully.

If anything, Ten Hag seems like a pretty straightforward guy, no behind the scenes drama and shit like that.

You're late for training? Called Marcus Rashford? Don't give a feck, you're fined and put on the bench.

Imagine the level of not giving a feck on training that Jadon had to deliver that he's not even on the fecking bench?!

And instead of getting down and working he goes on and issues a statement? Feck.me.
 
Devil You Know said:
There's no way he'd go to the Saudi league at 23 years old.

There'd be a dozen clubs in Europe who would be desperate for him if he left and could pay him a big wage.
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No one could afford his wage or willing to pay up such wage, unless maybe we are taking big portion of off transfer fee. It’s going to be Maguire’s summer situation all over again but worst.
 
DickDastardly said:
Exactly.

We don't even know what it was.
Erik was asked, he sad it was "internal disciplinary issue". Good.

We all said, lay down the law.
Marcus probably apologized put his head down and worked harder.




There's nothing out of character in this.

The man was asked a question, he answered it truthfully.

If anything, Ten Hag seems like a pretty straightforward guy, no behind the scenes drama and shit like that.

You're late for training? Called Marcus Rashford? Don't give a feck, you're fined and put on the bench.

Imagine the level of not giving a feck on training that Jadon had to deliver that he's not even on the fecking bench?!

And instead of getting down and working he goes on and issues a statement? Feck.me.
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And that's the problem. Normally he wouldn't, most managers wouldn't. Usually he/ they keep it behind closed doors.

I remember Jose doing this and nobody liked it. Now it's ETH they think it's the right things thing to do.
 
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