I think that ultimately Dortmund aren't desperate for him, they know his limitations too. The interest in our underperformers is always the same ... totally based on being very cut price.
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training
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I think that ultimately Dortmund aren't desperate for him, they know his limitations too. The interest in our underperformers is always the same ... totally based on being very cut price.
I appreciate that. Since we agree on practically nothing, I’ll take that as a compliment.
Your absolute refusal to see things in shades of gray rather than either black or white is comical.
Watching Sancho play well in the CL and wondering why he couldn’t do the same for us is a legitimate question. Does all the blame fall on Ten Hag? Of course not. Sancho has self sabotaged for sure. If Ten Hag is sacked and Sancho stays at United, hopefully the new manager will get something out of him as he is a very expensive asset.
He played well in one bloody game does the fact he wasnt very good in all the other games reflect on him or his manager at Dortmund?, his stats at Dortmund are average and he was very average last night as well in fact he has been very average under every manager he has played under at United so its not an EtH thing its a him thing
Said EtH on the phone to him just now
Honestly if you think he played well in the CL you're nuts. He had one good game, and the rest were nothing special. He's also been okay-ish in the Bundasliga, he's not been tearing it apart. I'm assuming you haven't actually watched his games.
Also, I never said it's black and white. The only back and white aspect is that he's an idiot for taking it to Instagram. It's not a ten hag specific issue, it's just player petulance. And he has form for it
A player is never bigger than the club. If sancho needs certain conditions made to be willing to play for United e.g. with ETH gone, I rather he get out of the club asap.
You don't make demands to play at United.
You don't make demands to play at United.
Exactly.
A player who has shown nothing, when a club is paying him 350k a week, then demanding conditions, its pathetic really, shows his character.
Its the Sancho fan boys who have highlighter one game v PSG where he got no goals or assist, a few dribbles and he is "back", got Dortmund posting things on social media.
The proof is in the pudding, even Dortmund dont think he is that great when they cant afford 30m.
What if EtH make demands to integrate Sancho in the team?
Sancho may then write a letter in social media accusing eth of slavery
So manager is above club and can make demands to integrate a certain player. Good that is clarified.
Couldn't care if eth stays or leave but Sancho should not be allowed to play for us again. This fecker cared about himself and disrupted our season by his stupid behavior. Such individuals cannot be trusted.
Got his day at Wembley and wet the bed.
Missed out on an FA Cup winners medal in the process.
Missed out on an FA Cup winners medal in the process.
Said no one. You presented a hypothetical situation and I answered in a hypothetical way. Where does that make manager above the club. Ideally sancho should be sold irrespective of who the manager is.
Read the posts again then. If Sancho making certain conditions will make him above the club, manager doing that will make him above the club too?
Well if we are being realistic, can't see eth wanting sancho back unless he is forced to bring him back because of the club's inability to sell sancho. No reason for eth to demand for his return.
I don't see future for both of them at ManUtd. Even if EtH isn't sacked now, he will be by mid next season he if doesn't adapt. Sancho will be gone unless EtH is sacked and the next manager pushes for Sancho to stay.
Fair point. I still believe we as a club would be idiot to have sancho stay. He shouldn't be even an option for the new manager to consider.
I agree with that. Sancho should be gone, not only for this whole saga but considering his performances he is just not worth the fee or wages.
Well said. Sancho is not that good. Dortmund had a great CL final phase, but he played a role alongside many of that squad. And did you see him on Saturday?
The quicker we can get rid the better. Get some good cash for him. He lowers the standards at Man United and did very, very little whilst here. Why keep him?
I think Sancho was looking for an out and no sooner did ETH take the bait, his team, hangers on and agents all got to work and made this a big thing.
It was clear that he's not the guy, has no aspirations to be world class and very little work ethic, has had everything placed at his feet since he was an academy player, major clubs fighting over him, knowing he was going to be a pro from the age of 14, probably was given life changing money at 16, was able to waft through academy and youth team ball.
Leaves City because staying and fighting would be too hard, is "guided" to go to Dortmund, reality is City were happy to lose him. Gets the pro contract at Dortmund, big money for a 17/18 year old, playing on easy street, in an easy league.
Still even during easy street, noises come out about professionalism, about lateness, about application, as they did at City, as they did at England, as they did at United.
So let's get this straight; Pep, Ole, Rangnick, ETH, Southgate all have the same opinion - indifference.
Yet because Dortmund get given a player, basically for free, where we beg and he begs to go and they don't have to pay big money to have him, this is apparently the proof he's rated and some sort of overlooked talent.
He's a bum. It's hilarious to see these semi viral clips of him doing a bit of quite rudimentary skill, followed by a backwards pass with shocked face emojis and "JADON STOP THAT" taglines.
Genuinely one of the biggest mystery's in modern football is this guy and his fanbase.
It was clear that he's not the guy, has no aspirations to be world class and very little work ethic, has had everything placed at his feet since he was an academy player, major clubs fighting over him, knowing he was going to be a pro from the age of 14, probably was given life changing money at 16, was able to waft through academy and youth team ball.
Leaves City because staying and fighting would be too hard, is "guided" to go to Dortmund, reality is City were happy to lose him. Gets the pro contract at Dortmund, big money for a 17/18 year old, playing on easy street, in an easy league.
Still even during easy street, noises come out about professionalism, about lateness, about application, as they did at City, as they did at England, as they did at United.
So let's get this straight; Pep, Ole, Rangnick, ETH, Southgate all have the same opinion - indifference.
Yet because Dortmund get given a player, basically for free, where we beg and he begs to go and they don't have to pay big money to have him, this is apparently the proof he's rated and some sort of overlooked talent.
He's a bum. It's hilarious to see these semi viral clips of him doing a bit of quite rudimentary skill, followed by a backwards pass with shocked face emojis and "JADON STOP THAT" taglines.
Genuinely one of the biggest mystery's in modern football is this guy and his fanbase.
Totally agree with your summary of this waste of space, just to add, that a wee part of of the "mystery" and "fanbase" it appears is Rashford, who via social media totally supports this greedy mercenary
Can you give some examples?
Can I quote you on this: "He played well in one bloody game" and "the fact he wasnt very good in all the other games" ?
Are those facts?
Here's Sancho's passing, creating and dribbling stats from the last 365 days (for us and Dortmund) in percentiles compared to all other wingers/attacking mids in the top 5 leagues in Europe (all stats are per 90 minutes):
Expected assists: 0,22 - 65 percentile
Shot creating actions: 4,66 - 78 percentiile
Passes attempted: 47,05 - 77 percentile
Pass completion: 80,1 - 80 percentile
Progressive passes: 5,51 - 81 percentile
Progressive carrieis: 5,57 - 91 percentile
Successfull take ons: 3,69 - 96 percentile
Touches in oppo box: 4,72 - 65 percentile
Progressive passes received: 10,17 - 79 percentile
These numbers are really good.
Funnily enough his weakest side the last year has been taking shots - meaning he hasn't taken many. His end product was outstanding before he came here Compared to his first Dortmund period where he was pretty productive in that area as well. Defensively he's got pretty average stats.
Compared to Garnacho, Rashford and Antony:
Garnacho:
Expected assists: 0,17 - 44 percentile
Shot creating actions: 3,99 - 57 percentiile
Passes attempted: 30,74 - 21 percentile
Pass completion: 75,2 - 47 percentile
Progressive passes: 2,01 - 9 percentile
Progressive carrieis: 6,00 - 95 percentile
Successfull take ons: 1,63 - 52 percentile
Touches in oppo box: 8,42 - 98 percentile
Progressive passes received: 9,58 - 77 percentile
Rashford:
Expected assists: 0,12 - 21 percentile
Shot creating actions: 3,48 - 44 percentiile
Passes attempted: 30,32 - 20 percentile
Pass completion: 75,9 - 51 percentile
Progressive passes: 2,92 - 28 percentile
Progressive carrieis: 3,80 - 59 percentile
Successfull take ons: 2,00 - 72 percentile
Touches in oppo box: 4,99 - 70 percentile
Progressive passes received: 7,63 - 49 percentile
Antony (Works his socks off defensively, but....):
Expected assists: 0,16 - 40 percentile
Shot creating actions: 3,82 - 51 percentiile
Passes attempted: 39,16 - 59 percentile
Pass completion: 78,6 - 69 percentile
Progressive passes: 4,51 - 67 percentile
Progressive carrieis: 3,35 - 47 percentile
Successfull take ons: 1,85 - 63 percentile
Touches in oppo box: 3,53 - 38 percentile
Progressive passes received: 9,54 - 76 percentile
According to whoscored.com he was Dortmund's second best player: avg. 7,05 rating in the Bundesliga (7,09 in the CL) since he went there on loan (according to whoscored metrics, who is flawed, but is still the most precise out there)
Only Bruno had higher rating for us this season with 7,39 avg. rating.
Garnacho 6,76
Rashford 6,69
(Amad 6,67)
Antony 6,54
Fact is he had some good games, some very good games, some decent games and a couple of games where he was not very good. He hadn't played matches at a high level or trained with 1st team for 5 months when he came there. (A great way to improve and protect your investments, right? To make sure they don't get to train with or play with the first team. I'm sure he developed a lot in that period)
Fact is he went there on loan and fought his way into the starting eleven in the deepest CL run Dortmund has had the last 11 years in a season where they had everything to fight for in the league as well. That means he must have shown Terzic something both in training and in matches.
Why are you so sure he can't be good for us with a different management?
Sancho at 19-21 would walk into any team in the world.
Goodie...
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Why? Can they not afford him or something?
You love to see it.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics…
To match him against the United wingers you would also need No of goals and shots on target as minimum.
Amazing that if he is this good why are clubs not lining up to buy him for 40 mill or more as "he will walk into any team". Maybe because he is not that good!
Dortmund don't want to buy him, but is OK taking him on a cheap loan deal (why if he is that good).
Further he was given a chance under Solskjær, Ragnick and ETH without even closely showing anything special.
On top of this he have continuously had discipline problems.
Sancho at 19-21 WAS that good and would have walked into any team in the world, at least as a player getting a lot of minutes. His development however took a wrong turn once he moved to Manchester and that's why currently there doesn't seem to be much interest in him. He just isn't performing that good any more and is a few years older. Taking the route of a failed talent, not of a top player currently. Doesn't change that he was an exciting talent in his first time in Dortmund.
Tight feckers. Posting on social media about how they rate Sancho but won't put their hands in their pocket.
Do you know the difference between will and would ?
How good he'll be under a new/different manager we don't know, but I want to find out.
No his development took a wrong turn due to his discipline issues.
He was not that good under any of our managers. And I have seen some Dormund games this year and you are right he just isn't performing that good anymore.
He might have been an exiting talent but his demise is not due to management. That is on him.
I didn't say anything about the reasons, just about the timing. He left Dortmund as a leading figure in their squad, who showed performance and mentality. We saw none of that in Manchester. I won't speculate about why this happened.
I will give you 350k reasons
Sancho was good in the Bundesliga because nearly every defence played a high line especially at the time of his shining period.
Sancho's best ability is his through balls which constantly broke through these Bundesliga High lines of defence whether it was directly from his pace or just through balls which were finished consistently by Haaland And Alcacer.
Him benefiting from this league tactic was obvious to see from day one and is why i never wanted him as much as others.
It looked like he had time and time and even more time to make the right decisions on the ball rather than him being particularly quick and decisive.
Even though i was never his biggest fan - I'd want to see him get one more season here - because
1. We never had that Haaland Alcacer type striker finishing off chances before. Now we have Hojlund. Sancho & Hojlund might actually work quite well because Hojlund isnt a target man - he is a striker that runs the channels behind the defence and Sancho's through balls could be more useful to him than to someone like Martial who always sat deeper in play to normally play in a through ball himself. Sancho whether at LW or RW should have better link up play with Hojlund than Rashford or Garnacho from outwide.
2. Sancho as a False 9 is his best position IMO again because of his ability to play a through ball. This would be most useful for our list of inverted forwards like Rashford, Garnacho, Amad & maybe even Greenwood depending on his return.
In my opinion - Sancho would be both more useful to Hojlund from out wide whilst also being more useful centrally for our collection of inverted forwards as two different attacking plans.
Sancho - Hojlund - Amad/Olise
Would be our most creative partnership for Hojlunds benefit especially if someone like Olise comes in as an example or Amad steps his game up. This would get the best out of Hojlund as our main attacking threat.
Whilst
Rashford/GNacho-Sancho-Amad/GWood
Would be our most attacking outlet utelising wide inverted forwards with a false 9 like Arsenal do.
I still think theres space for him in the squad - because of our lack of creativity from outwide for our central striker & also our lack of creativity from the centre forward for our inverted forwards respectively.
2 different attacking plans with still space for Sancho.
Sancho's best ability is his through balls which constantly broke through these Bundesliga High lines of defence whether it was directly from his pace or just through balls which were finished consistently by Haaland And Alcacer.
Him benefiting from this league tactic was obvious to see from day one and is why i never wanted him as much as others.
It looked like he had time and time and even more time to make the right decisions on the ball rather than him being particularly quick and decisive.
Even though i was never his biggest fan - I'd want to see him get one more season here - because
1. We never had that Haaland Alcacer type striker finishing off chances before. Now we have Hojlund. Sancho & Hojlund might actually work quite well because Hojlund isnt a target man - he is a striker that runs the channels behind the defence and Sancho's through balls could be more useful to him than to someone like Martial who always sat deeper in play to normally play in a through ball himself. Sancho whether at LW or RW should have better link up play with Hojlund than Rashford or Garnacho from outwide.
2. Sancho as a False 9 is his best position IMO again because of his ability to play a through ball. This would be most useful for our list of inverted forwards like Rashford, Garnacho, Amad & maybe even Greenwood depending on his return.
In my opinion - Sancho would be both more useful to Hojlund from out wide whilst also being more useful centrally for our collection of inverted forwards as two different attacking plans.
Sancho - Hojlund - Amad/Olise
Would be our most creative partnership for Hojlunds benefit especially if someone like Olise comes in as an example or Amad steps his game up. This would get the best out of Hojlund as our main attacking threat.
Whilst
Rashford/GNacho-Sancho-Amad/GWood
Would be our most attacking outlet utelising wide inverted forwards with a false 9 like Arsenal do.
I still think theres space for him in the squad - because of our lack of creativity from outwide for our central striker & also our lack of creativity from the centre forward for our inverted forwards respectively.
2 different attacking plans with still space for Sancho.
He thought he'd made it, then was dropped into a league where he was afforded less space and his physical shortcomings were magnified. No doubt he was a very exciting talent but he reacted to difficulties by retreating into his shell and sulking.
End of Sancho at ManUtd?
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