Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

[ForeverRed1]

This one's beginning to piss me off, not gonna lie. Sancho was looking better than Rashford and Antony at the start of the season. All ten Hag had to do was keep it shut. He's been in no position to be calling any player out.

If Rashford sucks tonight then starts against Brentford, it's only gonna strengthen Sancho's case. Ten Hag's treading a fine line at the moment. Things could easily turn for him.

His application in training has been below par and that’s a bare minimum. If the manager asks for A B and C you give A B C and the rest of the alphabet. This is Man Utd. He has been crap for us, genuinely crap. Doesn’t track back, ducks out of challenges. His numbers have been poor and on top of it his attitude and effort is questionable.

Don’t let the door hit you on your way out sancho. Massive disappointment on every level.

 

[RedPed]

Sancho has been terrible mate. As underwhelming a signing as we have ever made.

Agree that ETH could have avoided this by not saying anything, but as could Sancho.

Lets not pretend that if Sancho was in our team that results would be better.

Not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just asking for consistency from ten Hag that's all. We've been shite without him and there are some players not deserving their place in the team at the moment. Whether players don't cut it in training or perform on a matchday, it's all the same to me.

 

[Crimson King]

Not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just asking for consistency from ten Hag that's all. We've been shite without him and there are some players not deserving their place in the team at the moment. Whether players don't cut it in training or perform on a matchday, it's all the same to me.

I think the two things are very different. Plenty of players are struggling at the moment, but in the manager's eyes at least they're trying and keep going. He has criticised performances, but has avoided naming anyone in particular because on match day it's the whole team that aren't clicking. We can all see that Rashford is making the wrong decisions. He's not doing it on purpose because he's shit or lazy, like many people on here seem to think, but because he's struggling for confidence and trying to force it too much in all effort to kickstart his season. Calling that out wouldn't help anyone.

Sancho wasn't even playing, but was apparently half arsing it in training, amongst other things. Considering how out of form our other attackers were, it was the kind of opportunity where you'd hope a top player would step up and look to claim a spot in the team. Sancho obviously didn't do that, and instead seemed to think he should just get his chance by default. You can't reward that type of behaviour in any team environment.

 

[Withnail]

He's been in no position to be calling any player out.

Of course he is. He's literally the manager ffs

 

[DJ_21]

Not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just asking for consistency from ten Hag that's all. We've been shite without him and there are some players not deserving their place in the team at the moment. Whether players don't cut it in training or perform on a matchday, it's all the same to me.

I agree. I’ve said this before… I find it weird how he calls out sancho for his training but never calls out Martial for his laziness while in an actual game. He’s had games where he’s hardly had a touch so I’m thinking surely Martial can’t be on fire in training looking at him on match days .

 

[DJ_21]

I’m wondering if Rashfords poor form has something to do with Sancho aswell. Maybe he’s playing crap and testing ETH to see if he gets called out for it… we know Rashford and Sancho are good mates.

 

[the_cliff]

Not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just asking for consistency from ten Hag that's all. We've been shite without him and there are some players not deserving their place in the team at the moment. Whether players don't cut it in training or perform on a matchday, it's all the same to me.

There's something called the minimum, say what you want about Antony for example no one can question his effort. Sancho can't get to training on time never mind press like an animal and track back.

 

[RedPed]

Of course he is. He's literally the manager ffs

Yeah the manager with the worst start in United history.

 

[Withnail]

Yeah the manager with the worst start in United history.

You're claiming the manager isn't in a position to call out a player (in the mildest way possible) who's underperforming. I can't think a more idiotic post. By definition it's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[USREDEVIL]

The manager should remain silent about player performances. That's nothing to do with his job.
Sounds pretty stupid right?

 

[Rooney24]

The manager should remain silent about player performances. That's nothing to do with his job.
Sounds pretty stupid right?

Almost went for it !!!

 

[lex talionis]

I’m wondering if Rashfords poor form has something to do with Sancho aswell. Maybe he’s playing crap and testing ETH to see if he gets called out for it… we know Rashford and Sancho are good mates.

I've been wondering about the effect of Sancho's meltdown on the rest of the squad, especially his inner circle of buddies.

This may not be the thread for it, but I do wonder why we brought in Sancho, a player who's best suited to the same LW position that Rashford occupies. At the top of his game Sancho is a better footballer than Rashford, but the plan could never have been to phase out Rashford. It's as though there was no plan at all. It's as though Manchester United Football Club are clueless when it comes to squad development, such as what we have seen over nearly every summer transfer since the Moyes meltdown, including this last summer when we brought in players we didn't need and refused to bring in players we did need. Very strange.

 

[Lay]

Good riddance to Sancho in January. What another fail of a transfer for the club.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Good riddance to Sancho in January. What another fail of a transfer for the club.

Insane how bad this went.
Was pumped to get him. Was thinking he'd light up the right wing spot. Played meh with a few rare good performances. Then kind of out of the team. Then turned into a cnut. Now we're probably going to sell him for peanuts.

 

[Lay]

Insane how bad this went.
Was pumped to get him. Was thinking he'd light up the right wing spot. Played meh with a few rare good performances. Then kind of out of the team. Then turned into a cnut. Now we're probably going to sell him for peanuts.

To think the cafe had a collective meltdown the one summer we didn't get him. To Dortmund posting "you love to see it" and then signing him a year later. All for what?!

Its one of the many reasons I have little faith in any transfer the club does because they all tend to disappoint in the end.

 

[DJ_21]

I've been wondering about the effect of Sancho's meltdown on the rest of the squad, especially his inner circle of buddies.

This may not be the thread for it, but I do wonder why we brought in Sancho, a player who's best suited to the same LW position that Rashford occupies. At the top of his game Sancho is a better footballer than Rashford, but the plan could never have been to phase out Rashford. It's as though there was no plan at all. It's as though Manchester United Football Club are clueless when it comes to squad development, such as what we have seen over nearly every summer transfer since the Moyes meltdown, including this last summer when we brought in players we didn't need and refused to bring in players we did need. Very strange.

I think we all thought Sancho was gonna come in and solve our RW position. He played some really good stuff for Dortmund on the right. I think Ole wanted a Sancho, Martial and Rashford front 3 that can all interchange. Obviously it didn’t pan out like that. But you’re absolutely spot on we are clueless at a lot of things including developing squads and having a plan when it comes to signings. We always tend to sign LW and end up having about 5 a season for that position.

 

[Withnail]

I’m wondering if Rashfords poor form has something to do with Sancho aswell. Maybe he’s playing crap and testing ETH to see if he gets called out for it… we know Rashford and Sancho are good mates.

What would be the goal there? To ruin his reputation and get loaned to a lesser side, to be then sold for feck all and have to take a drop in wages?

 

[DJ_21]

What would be the goal there? To ruin his reputation and get loaned to a lesser side, to be then sold for feck all and have to take a drop in wages?

His attitude is all wrong. He thinks he’s untouchable but he knows if he ever wants to leave they’ll be a big Spanish club or some club who wants him.

 

[RedDevil@84]

So we loan him and pay his salary in January?

 

[Gandalf]

I’m wondering if Rashfords poor form has something to do with Sancho aswell. Maybe he’s playing crap and testing ETH to see if he gets called out for it… we know Rashford and Sancho are good mates.

That seems pretty far fetched to me. Rashford is struggling as he has previously in his career, he is notoriously streaky and his off periods are immensely frustrating but that is just who he is as a player. I would be more inclined to sympathize with Sancho if the allegations were not backed up by reports from his previous clubs, he was in the end a poor buy and it is just another painful lesson learned.

 

[redNATION]

Sanch-off He was the chosen one too

 

[Withnail]

His attitude is all wrong. He thinks he’s untouchable but he knows if he ever wants to leave they’ll be a big Spanish club or some club who wants him.

And you think the best way to do that is to pull a Sancho? It's a bit bizarre to invent complete fantasies because you don't like a player and post them here. There's no basis in reality at all for your original post and it's not exactly relevant to the thread.

 

[Doracle]

Would people be amenable to him leaving for Dortmund on loan on January? Maybe it’s just me but that seems to send entirely the wrong message. He gets an easy loan move, still on his £300k per week (which we will no doubt be mainly funding) and Dortmund get the benefit. Possibly it does make most sense, but I think I’d prefer to keep him at least until Summer 24 with a view to forcing him to take a massive pay cut to leave permanently, if there’s no way to remedy the situation.

 

[Rightnr]

Pep has only ever taken the easy jobs where he is pretty much nailed on to finish at least 2nd in the league.

Villanova won the league with the same team Pep had, Enrique won the treble with Barcelona, including another league title, Valverde won the league and Cup double then another league title. All these managers were lucky enough to have Messi, Iniesta, Busquets and co, what Pep won at Barcelona was not much different to Enrique, because if you have the best team in La Liga you are going to win a lot.

Bayern Munich had just won the treble the year before Pep arrived, then he just won a few cups and league titles, which is expected at Bayern, and every manager since him has won the league. He was hired to win the CL with them and he failed after inheriting the team that actually just won it.

At Man City he has spent more than any other manager in football history at one club. That is while inheriting De Bruyne, David Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Yaya Toure.

Inheriting them players at Man City, then spending a billion quid after to add to it and keep topping the team up with superstar signings, constantly having the best team in the league all while the club is cheating by breaking all the rules.

Yes he has dominated wherever he has managed but he has had the best team and/or the most money to spend. But he plays pretty football so all is forgiven and ignored that he has had an extremely easy ride his entire managerial career.

Most of this is fair but talking about how much City has spent is a bit of a misnomer for the last 5 years (before that, I agree).

They barely have a (official) net spend higher than us because good management at both the recruitment level means they don't buy shit and Guardiola keeps their players' stock stable, if not raises it.

This means they can literally upgrade year in, year out and actually make money. Compare this to United where it's a circus and the clowns are running it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

This one's beginning to piss me off, not gonna lie. Sancho was looking better than Rashford and Antony at the start of the season. All ten Hag had to do was keep it shut. He's been in no position to be calling any player out.

If Rashford sucks tonight then starts against Brentford, it's only gonna strengthen Sancho's case. Ten Hag's treading a fine line at the moment. Things could easily turn for him.

Sancho literally has no case. He has been the player equivalent of this season's form under ETH.

 

[Gandalf]

Would people be amenable to him leaving for Dortmund on loan on January? Maybe it’s just me but that seems to send entirely the wrong message. He gets an easy loan move, still on his £300k per week (which we will no doubt be mainly funding) and Dortmund get the benefit. Possibly it does make most sense, but I think I’d prefer to keep him at least until Summer 24 with a view to forcing him to take a massive pay cut to leave permanently, if there’s no way to remedy the situation.

The likelihood of us getting a fee of any sort for him next summer is going to be largely dependent upon him demonstrating some sort of form and appetite for the game. It might suck to let him go on what would essentially be a subsidized free loan to Dortmund for half a season but if that nets us a decent transfer fee it is probably a price worth paying, him sitting on the bench for a whole season is liable to leave us with no real market for his services.

 

[RedPed]

Sancho literally has no case. He has been the player equivalent of this season's form under ETH.

H's hardly played this season so that's a weird comparison. Ten Hag's credibility could be affected by who he starts against Brentford. Just imagine if we lose that game??

 

[tomaldinho1]

H's hardly played this season so that's a weird comparison. Ten Hag's credibility could be affected by who he starts against Brentford. Just imagine if we lose that game??

That wasn't the comparison?

I can well imagine, I was there just over a year ago when we got trounced.

 

[DWelbz19]

Would people be amenable to him leaving for Dortmund on loan on January? Maybe it’s just me but that seems to send entirely the wrong message. He gets an easy loan move, still on his £300k per week (which we will no doubt be mainly funding) and Dortmund get the benefit. Possibly it does make most sense, but I think I’d prefer to keep him at least until Summer 24 with a view to forcing him to take a massive pay cut to leave permanently, if there’s no way to remedy the situation.

I think it's probably the best thing -- if he goes back to Dortmund and does well, we either:
(1) - get a semi-decent fee for him when he does leave on a permanent transfer that summer, or;
(2) - we bring him back that summer and if Hag is no longer here, reintegrate him to the squad.

If he does poorly, well, we're kind of stuck with him until we can see out his contract.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Would people be amenable to him leaving for Dortmund on loan on January? Maybe it’s just me but that seems to send entirely the wrong message. He gets an easy loan move, still on his £300k per week (which we will no doubt be mainly funding) and Dortmund get the benefit. Possibly it does make most sense, but I think I’d prefer to keep him at least until Summer 24 with a view to forcing him to take a massive pay cut to leave permanently, if there’s no way to remedy the situation.

No, both he and Dortmund can feck off. Imagine forking out 75 million pounds to buy a player to send him back to the selling club while keep paying his wages. The laughingstock of European football. Only Coutinho who got shipped out to Bayern Munich and then came on as a late sub and desecrated the corpse of his parent club can beat that level of dumbness.

 

[Orton]

Had a bad feeling about this signing from the very start. 2 years later and he’s been banished from the squad. Horrible situation. We’ve blown so much money on crap and this one is right up there for many reasons. Frustrating

 

[Mwooyo]

Was against signing sancho from the very start. The figures quoted where not worth the talent. Even to this day, yes we could perform slightly better with a motivated sancho but he is not going to be the difference maker.

He cant be our saka...his ceiling isnt young ronaldo levels...its nani levels. I think that a fully matured Garnacho and Amad means we aint got space for sancho. To be clear, Sancho isnt a bad player...he just isn't a great fit for manutd. Manutd wingers have got to be able to beat their Fb one on one on their own over and over again. With sancho we need someone to overlap on the outside, and an option on the inside...then and only then do we get a top tier sancho. In the right team and right system, he is great.

Given this fact, we should let him go in January if he wants to go..and definitely let him go in the summer no matter what. Would rather blow that 70m on someone like Olise

 

[elmo]

Would people be amenable to him leaving for Dortmund on loan on January? Maybe it’s just me but that seems to send entirely the wrong message. He gets an easy loan move, still on his £300k per week (which we will no doubt be mainly funding) and Dortmund get the benefit. Possibly it does make most sense, but I think I’d prefer to keep him at least until Summer 24 with a view to forcing him to take a massive pay cut to leave permanently, if there’s no way to remedy the situation.

Ah yes, that worked out so well when we did it with Bailey and Maguire.

 

[elmo]

No, both he and Dortmund can feck off. Imagine forking out 75 million pounds to buy a player to send him back to the selling club while keep paying his wages. The laughingstock of European football. Only Coutinho who got shipped out to Bayern Munich and then came on as a late sub and desecrated the corpse of his parent club can beat that level of dumbness.

Us paying big money for Pogba who left us on a free and was underwhelming for the majority of this time with us beats that to be honest.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Us paying big money for Pogba who left us on a free and was underwhelming for the majority of this time with us beats that to be honest.

Definitely, add Pogba to the list. At least, we didn't loan him back to Juventus while paying the majority of his wages. That's something, i guess. Of all the things Fergie suggested and they said "why not?" (Moyes being numero uno on the list), this was the one case they went against his advice. Fecking unbelievable...

 

[fps]

I agree. I’ve said this before… I find it weird how he calls out sancho for his training but never calls out Martial for his laziness while in an actual game. He’s had games where he’s hardly had a touch so I’m thinking surely Martial can’t be on fire in training looking at him on match days .

My feeling is Martial has fundamental physical issues and announcing that would lose any possible resale value.

 

[fps]

Was against signing sancho from the very start. The figures quoted where not worth the talent. Even to this day, yes we could perform slightly better with a motivated sancho but he is not going to be the difference maker.

He cant be our saka...his ceiling isnt young ronaldo levels...its nani levels. I think that a fully matured Garnacho and Amad means we aint got space for sancho. To be clear, Sancho isnt a bad player...he just isn't a great fit for manutd. Manutd wingers have got to be able to beat their Fb one on one on their own over and over again. With sancho we need someone to overlap on the outside, and an option on the inside...then and only then do we get a top tier sancho. In the right team and right system, he is great.

Given this fact, we should let him go in January if he wants to go..and definitely let him go in the summer no matter what. Would rather blow that 70m on someone like Olise

I don’t like the term “ceiling”, and I found him more frustrating than reliable, but the disrespect of a talent like Nani to say Sancho could be as good as him is crazy.

 

[Maticmaker]

I have been trying to think back about who was the main mover, within the club, to go and buy Sancho? The whole saga went on for so long, was it Ole?
Anyhow it was fairly clear that the way we were playing then (and still are) would not have suited Sancho's style anyway, yes he can play on the wing but he's not fast and needs an inside man, a 10 or an 8 or both, to work the ball up the pitch in a pass and move manner. Maybe this is part of his problem?
Leaving aside the injury list which is causing the biggest problem just now, is ETH wanting to move to a style of play that will suit Sancho, Mount, Erikson.. but not necessarily Bruno's 'wander' lust style?

However, whatever lies behind it, when your manager tells you jump, all you ask is 'how high'?

 

[troylocker]

Sancho has been terrible mate. As underwhelming a signing as we have ever made.

Agree that ETH could have avoided this by not saying anything, but as could Sancho.

Lets not pretend that if Sancho was in our team that results would be better.

ETH started Antony over him in all three matches up untill the commotion started and up untill the wifebeating thing came up. An Antony with no end product, playing without even a hint of flow in the final 3rd, who's contributed 0 goals or assists so far this season. Garnacho started over him on the left in the first 2 games (0 returns) and Rashford against NFO. Even Pellistri seemed ahead of him in the picking order. A Pellistri that has 1 assists and 0 goals in the 48 games he's played since we bought him (including his loanspell in Spain), 0 this season. 1 return in 48 games!!!
GW1: We were horrible in the 1-0 win agaisnt Wolves. (Sancho on the bench)
GW2: We were horrible in the 2-0 loss at Spurs. (Sancho on the bench)
GW3: We started horribly agaisnt NFO (Sancho on the bench)
GW4: Sancho not even in the squad and we played horrible against Arsenal (Starting the same underperforming guy on the right.....)

It's not like he was kept out of the team because his competitors were on fire. ETH insisted on keeping him out in the cold.
ETH pretty much didn't give him a chance this season, despite massive underperformances from the starting wingers and going from poor performance to poor performance....
And then he goes out publicly and says what he said.

This is a player who averaged 1,0 G+A/90 three seasons straight in Germany, mostly as a teenager. How did they do it?
This is a player you need to play into form with a massive WC top level. What did we do? We faded him out to accomodate less talented players....

 

[crossy1686]

I’m wondering if Rashfords poor form has something to do with Sancho aswell. Maybe he’s playing crap and testing ETH to see if he gets called out for it… we know Rashford and Sancho are good mates.

Why would you sabotage your own career over someone elses dickhead behaviour?