Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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NotChatGPT said:
It's not a fact, it's your assumption. The gist of the situation is more or less that this is a pattern over time, Sancho arriving late, slacking off, not putting enough effort into training, generally not being professional, and that we've been unable to sort it out by dealing with it internally. Ten Hag has never been a manager that instantly goes public with issues, you're allowed to feck up but if you continue fecking up the response will be accordingly. Calling him out in public by stating that his performances in training needs to improve and then he'll be back on the team, should hardly be the end of the world.
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Why I think its an emotional response, I dont think he says it if we had won.

I think you are right but people are missing the point, EtH gives no context, we are filling in the blanks based on Sancho's had previous.

EtH takes about standards but what does than mean? Lets not forget, this wasn't just not making the first team, its the squad.
 
Laurencio said:
Well first off there should be an established relationship long before anything like this happens. The fact that it is possible to get to a situation where you say something fairly mild publicly and it turns into a locked feud is a failure of basic staff management skills. It shouldn't happen.

Second he's trying to force the kid into an apology by reducing his involvement in the squad on every level, which further reinforces the idea that this is personal for Sancho. There's nothing in Sancho's past that would suggest that this is the way to get him to do what you want. It's authority for the sake of authority, which he is free to do, I just don't agree that it is the best course of action.
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You've assumed a lot in the first sentence. We don't know how many conversations they've had over the course of a year regarding Sancho's behaviour and their working relationship. It's safe to say they've had many considering Ten Hag took the time to send Sancho to Holland, make a personal training plan for him, and do all within his power to get him up to the level of his demands, of which almost every other player in the squad has managed to do.

You're also assuming Sancho wasn't waiting for Ten Hag to say something so he could react this way and force a move out of the club. The fact he's refusing to just say "I'm sorry I called you a liar on social media" behind closed doors to the manager suggests there's more at play here. Sancho either thinks he's bigger than the manager and the club or he wants out. These actions are motivated by something else.

There's nothing in Sancho's past to suggest you can get a performance out of him unless you enable his behaviour and act as his own personal assistant and wake him up before meetings or training. Are you suggesting he should just be allowed to train with the first team and be eligible for the match day squad? What message does that send to the rest of the squad who follow the rules and work their bollocks off? There's far too much focus on the individual in what you've said and not enough focus on the group or group dynamics. The bare minimum for any member of a team is to turn up on time and try, and Sancho consistently can't do that, yet for some reason we're expected to have empathy for his cause and shift blame onto the manager.
 
duffer said:
That's fair enough.

From an outsider's point of view this seems such a mountain out of a molehill.
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I get that, and it is because it's United and Sancho is another expensive players who's turned out to be a flop. But you really have to question what the player is hoping to gain from this, he decides what happens next but he can't be arsed to apologise for whatever reason.
 
Marwood said:
Who cares really? It's of no cost to the team or results. He'd make no difference right now and he'll be gone soon.

In that sense its the perfect opportunity for ETH to show everyone what won't be tolerated and who's the boss.
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If anything I see a positive out of it -- it allows kids like Amad to step up. Someone who actually wants to play.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, agreed that that this is dragging far too much, and that it doesn't matter if Sancho never plays for us again. But what can really realistically be done by the club at this point, other than freeze him out until he comes around (not likely), or we can sell him?
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I don't think it's salvageable. Ten Hag sacked by Christmas or Sancho sold in January if Ten Hag turns the team's performances around.
 
sglowrider said:
Can they afford him?
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I think we all know they couldn't afford him (not many clubs in the world could) so it would be a loan or payoff from United (which is never going to happen with the scum owners in charge)

He is just a distraction now, not worth the managers time.
 
Judas said:
This is dragging on far too much, and that’s not just Sancho’s fault.
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Ten Hag is the manager, when a player refuses to fall in line you can't dig your own grave by allowing him to continue to undermine you. Again, he's hardly the manager to go around creating conflicts just to see how players responds ala Jose, so i don't really understand why so many are happy to defend the player in all of this. When he's gone public with the situation it's because there's already been several failed attempts at resolving things behind closed doors. It was piss easy for Sancho to instantly sort this out.

Laurencio said:
Exactly. So how are we in feud-land? How did he not know Sancho's reaction would be like this?

Sancho's statement was filled with references to believing he was being scapegoated and that ETH held something else against him - how do you get there? Then to go from that to needing the PFA to mediate, it's ridiculous.
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Who cares what he was referencing, Ronaldo did a Piers Morgan interview making up stuff as he went along, they are footballers not someone that should be believed word for word. We were already in feud-land when Sancho refused to adapt to the requirements at the club like the rest of the players. Sancho repeatedly had issues with his professionalism at Dortmund, gaming until early hours in the morning and then showing up late for training, reporting for pre season on the heavy side, its nothing new. Last season we cut him an insane amount of slack, sending him to Holland in order for him to regain full fitness before being integrated back into the first team.

Litch said:
Why I think its an emotional response, I dont think he says it if we had won.

I think you are right but people are missing the point, EtH gives no context, we are filling in the blanks based on Sancho's had previous.

EtH takes about standards but what does than mean? Lets not forget, this wasn't just not making the first team, its the squad.
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He didn't lash out at Sancho, it was a rather mild comment. In terms of the rest it's been a gradual progress based on the responses from Sancho, it's not like he was instantly booted out of the club. When he went public with his statement, kept it up there, refused to back down and apologize, he was removed from the first team squad
 
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We don't do proper due diligence. Becuase it has become clear he had these issues at City and Dortmund. Maybe we thought he would outgrow them. A professional playing video games till 3 a.m. is not right.
 
duffer said:
I agree that the manager should stamp his authority on this but that's why I think an immediate meeting would be best. Hag can find out exactly what Sancho's problem is, Sancho gets a chance to explain himself and then the boss decides what to do.
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I would presume this has already been tried. Especially considering the club went to great length to help him with personal issues last season.

That the club has actually has banned him from all first-team facilities leads me to believe the issue is more serious than a small conflict on the back of EtH's public comments.
 
crossy1686 said:
You've assumed a lot in the first sentence. We don't know how many conversations they've had over the course of a year regarding Sancho's behaviour and their working relationship. It's safe to say they've had many considering Ten Hag took the time to send Sancho to Holland, make a personal training plan for him, and do all within his power to get him up to the level of his demands, of which almost every other player in the squad has managed to do.

You're also assuming Sancho wasn't waiting for Ten Hag to say something so he could react this way and force a move out of the club. The fact he's refusing to just say "I'm sorry I called you a liar on social media" behind closed doors to the manager suggests there's more at play here. Sancho either thinks he's bigger than the manager and the club or he wants out. These actions are motivated by something else.

There's nothing in Sancho's past to suggest you can get a performance out of him unless you enable his behaviour and act as his own personal assistant and wake him up before meetings or training. Are you suggesting he should just be allowed to train with the first team and be eligible for the match day squad? What message does that send to the rest of the squad who follow the rules and work their bollocks off? There's far too much focus on the individual in what you've said and not enough focus on the group or group dynamics. The bare minimum for any member of a team is to turn up on time and try, and Sancho consistently can't do that, yet for some reason we're expected to have empathy for his cause and shift blame onto the manager.
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Having a personal assistant make sure he is on time would enable him to follow the rules, even if it does not speak much to Sancho's maturity and capability to be self-sufficiently professional. It would not be about being empathetic, but about being pragmatic for the good of the club. It is just such a waste of quality and money, and we cannot well afford to waste such quality and money.
Obviously the club decided at some point that enforcing a hard line is more to the good of the club than catering to an individual's deficiencies. A vocal part of fans have been also long on the case of blaming players' personal attitude for disappointing team results. That might be where Sancho feels he is being made an example of, if the cause for this hard line is a state of team culture or a lack of success he feels he was not responsible for. He's still responsible for his professionalism, ultimately, but if the club signed him for his quality despite knowing there might be an issue with it they should have been prepared to take care of that better.
 
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crossy1686 said:
You've assumed a lot in the first sentence. We don't know how many conversations they've had over the course of a year regarding Sancho's behaviour and their working relationship. It's safe to say they've had many considering Ten Hag took the time to send Sancho to Holland, make a personal training plan for him, and do all within his power to get him up to the level of his demands, of which almost every other player in the squad has managed to do.

You're also assuming Sancho wasn't waiting for Ten Hag to say something so he could react this way and force a move out of the club. The fact he's refusing to just say "I'm sorry I called you a liar on social media" behind closed doors to the manager suggests there's more at play here. Sancho either thinks he's bigger than the manager and the club or he wants out. These actions are motivated by something else.

There's nothing in Sancho's past to suggest you can get a performance out of him unless you enable his behaviour and act as his own personal assistant and wake him up before meetings or training. Are you suggesting he should just be allowed to train with the first team and be eligible for the match day squad? What message does that send to the rest of the squad who follow the rules and work their bollocks off? There's far too much focus on the individual in what you've said and not enough focus on the group or group dynamics. The bare minimum for any member of a team is to turn up on time and try, and Sancho consistently can't do that, yet for some reason we're expected to have empathy for his cause and shift blame onto the manager.
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We don't know if the Holland thing was something Sancho wanted or if it was something Ten Hag suggested as a requirement for him to play first team football - that could have played a role in the current situation. I don't think it's a stretch to say that their relationship currently isn't the best it could be.

I'm not saying he should give him free reign. I have never met Sancho or spoken to Sancho. I don't know what makes him tick, what motivates him and what causes him to shut down. I expect our manager to know these things.

If he was trying to force a move he surely would have done so during the transfer window or at Christmas? It's pointless to do so now. I would hazard a guess that the relationship is broken and that Sancho would like to see ETH sacked because he doesn't believe he will play as long as he's manager.

Note - that I am criticising the manager's man management skills is not the same as saying he should be sacked - in case some people conflate those issues.
 
just thinking of Harry Maguire. For all his performance issues and unwise tweet about how good he was against Norwich , he has no training issues and still to be fair is available to play. As much as I’d like him to of gone in summer, he’s generally acted professionally and yet the abuse he gets is remarkable when you think of the people defending a player whose done nothing for the club and doesn’t even train properly.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
just thinking of Harry Maguire. For all his performance issues and unwise tweet about how good he was against Norwich , he has no training issues and still to be fair is available to play. As much as I’d like him to of gone in summer, he’s generally acted professionally and yet the abuse he gets is remarkable when you think of the people defending a player whose done nothing for the club and doesn’t even train properly.
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The abuse is never justified that he gets but his demeanor and public saying are enough to generate the titles for the news outlets, starting from the celebration against Andorra.. and so.
Petty people who want to be angry online or offline will stick to things like this and find a way to abuse him. It's fecked, but in the era of social media as a public figure/footballer, there's a need to have savyness how to handle the situation and how to kill certain stories. Harry's team* hasn't really done that, which leaves him in a tough situation.
 
Who the hell is Sancho to make this big of an issue, because the coach decided that he hasn't trained well enough? What has he given to the team to thing he deserves to be untouchable. He should be sold in January immediately, hopefully someone from Saudi Arabia takes him.
 
gaffs said:
United are fecked here. He has an ffp hit of about 30mil a year until 2027.

There isnt a team in the world that would buy him off us and pay the salary he is used to.

I dont even think Saudi are interested in players like Sancho, who have proved themselves to be problematic.
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The relentless focus on FFP has been very detrimental to our squad-building and morale, wouldn't you say? Surely the financiers on top realise this by now and take a different approach.
 
duffer said:
It's the "various parties" part I don't get. Why doesn't the manager just call the player and say "my office, tomorrow, 2pm" or whatever.

That the PFA are now getting involved because of what started from a pretty harmless post match comment is mad.
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I believe there is now a breakdown of communication between the manager and the player and ETH won't entertain any reconciliation until Sancho apologises.
 
He needs to get out of here. Clearly creating more issues than solving going forward. There is also no position on the pitch that he fits in for us anyway.

Poor attitude on and off the pitch.
 
The PFA can get fecked.

No matter what ETH can not back down now, need to end the player power at this club and this is the perfect opportunity. Especially considering the majority of the fan base is firmly behind the manager.

Had enough of players taking our club as a paid holiday. If Sancho goes for free I couldn't care less.
 
He needs to get people around him that help to set him straight - Ousmane Dembele at Barcelona had similar issues, lack of effort in training, staying up late to game, and not taking enough care of himself. But he never came out to blame a manager for it and seems like he turned it around.

Whoever told him it was okay to come out and blame the manager, was wrong.
 
Apparently he’s deleted his insta account

Probably horrified that him playing FIFA till 3am went viral plus the story he was late for training yet again, he couldn’t even try and be professional when the spotlight is on him

Cant wait until he’s sold.
 
Slevs said:
On the off chance you're not trolling.

ETH has already sent him to happy camp last year to get him in shape and reset him mentally
99% they've already had this conversation

You don't go from arm around the shoulder to exile without a talk or two in between explaining what your problem is with your player xyz
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We only really have ten Hag's version of what that whole Holland trip was all about. To us it may look like compassion but it's not inconceivable that Sancho may feel like he was being punished or hung out to dry back then as well, and that he actually wanted to stay and play. I mean, did it look like a particularly joyous trip based on the pictures?
 
Castia said:
Apparently he’s deleted his insta account

Probably horrified that him playing FIFA till 3am went viral plus the story he was late for training yet again, he couldn’t even try and be professional when the spotlight is on him

Cant wait until he’s sold.
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Probably has another. The Reale-Sancho or something for his gaming alter-ego
 
Jev said:
We only really have ten Hag's version of what that whole Holland trip was all about. To us it may look like compassion but it's not inconceivable that Sancho may feel like he was being punished or hung out to dry back then as well, and that he actually wanted to stay and play. I mean, did it look like a particularly joyous trip based on the pictures?
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And that’s where the theory died. He’s got no intention of playing hes delighted that he gets to sit home and play FIFA. Holland last season…remember his first season when he was out of the team in New York and the story was dental work :lol:

Hes had issues at every club he’s been at including England he’s a Lazy fecker who wants to lounge around and get paid

I can’t believe he’s on 300k why in the workd did we offer him that absolute incompetence
 
PGMOL is about to get involved.
Red card for Casemiro for not preventing Sancho from playing FIFA.
 
Jev said:
We only really have ten Hag's version of what that whole Holland trip was all about. To us it may look like compassion but it's not inconceivable that Sancho may feel like he was being punished or hung out to dry back then as well, and that he actually wanted to stay and play. I mean, did it look like a particularly joyous trip based on the pictures?
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If it was against Sanchos will then we’d have heard about it by now in the briefing war
 
what club in their right mind would buy him (for those saying "when he's sold")?

basically dumped by 3 clubs, completely out of shape, no form, total distraction for the club, and shown NOTHING to warrant it.

honest question - who would buy?
 
Red&Black said:
what club in their right mind would buy him (for those saying "when he's sold")?

basically dumped by 3 clubs, completely out of shape, no form, total distraction for the club, and shown NOTHING to warrant it.

honest question - who would buy?
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Apparently Chelsea were looking at a late deal for him, also got the Saudi clubs who just want any big name.

Also seems to be some Spurs fans saying they'd take him. I think a lot of people are unaware of just how shit he's been for us. Someone like Onana has had more opposition fan stick in 6 games than Sancho has had the entire time here.
 
Marwood said:
Who cares really? It's of no cost to the team or results. He'd make no difference right now and he'll be gone soon.

In that sense its the perfect opportunity for ETH to show everyone what won't be tolerated and who's the boss.
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Except with the ommision of Greenwood and Antony for non football reasons it is detrimental to the team. I dont like Sancho either but that is a fact and as I said before with the potential injury to Garnacho or Rashford we are f... because ETH is stubborn
 
duffer said:
Get him in a meeting immediately and talk it out, rather than let it drag in for weeks in the hope Sancho makes an effort to apologise.

Don't get me wrong, Sancho seems to be being a massive fanny but Hag is the boss and (in my opinion) should be taking this by the scruff of the neck and sorting it out one way or the other.
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Think they already tried that and Sancho refused to apologise which is why he then got subsequently banished from the first team facilities.
 
Solius said:
Apparently Chelsea were looking at a late deal for him, also got the Saudi clubs who just want any big name.

Also seems to be some Spurs fans saying they'd take him. I think a lot of people are unaware of just how shit he's been for us. Someone like Onana has had more opposition fan stick in 6 games than Sancho has had the entire time here.
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I think it goes to show that most opposition fans just watch highlights instead of our games, which is why a lot of their United-related opinions should be taken with a heavy pinch of salt.
 
strandty said:
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I kind of worry where this is going with his mental health. When I was depressed, playing video games to lose myself in a pseudo alternative world until late in the night and then oversleeping, being late to classes were a regular feature. I deleted all my socials too and began isolating. This feels very sadly relatable.
 
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