Imagine if ETH rejects us.
Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed
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I'd say that's a very healthy sign. You don't want him to be all buttered up just because United come calling. He needs leverage and first and foremost to be his own man here. If recent history is anything to go by, we need someone who is a grown up.
How dare you post facts
Ten Hag will probably want to completely run the roost on several things without any interference from our bumbling Yankee Board before agreeing to a contract
(1) Youth Policy
(2) Transfer Policy-Budget, Ins and Outs
(3) Contracts
(4) Management Team
(5) Scouting
(6) Pre-Season
(7) Formation and style of play
Basically see an Ajaxification of Man Utd
(1) Youth Policy
(2) Transfer Policy-Budget, Ins and Outs
(3) Contracts
(4) Management Team
(5) Scouting
(6) Pre-Season
(7) Formation and style of play
Basically see an Ajaxification of Man Utd
We're saying we are keeping our options open, he's saying he's keeping his open too.
At the end of the day if we really want him then it'll happen. I suspect though as we've interviewed him first that's a good sign.
At the end of the day if we really want him then it'll happen. I suspect though as we've interviewed him first that's a good sign.
I actually think this is and have been the problem. We need owners to go into the dressing room and kick a shoe in Beckham`s face and then tell the players that "we stand behind the manager 100% and believe in his vision and will back him fully to reach our goals."
All the evidence points to the contrary. Hag wants to remain a head coach as he is at Ajax and focus solely on that. That's how it is at Ajax, you have it the other way round. On paper united already have that Ajax-like structure in place with Murtough overseeing it.
I'm for it in all honesty.
Despite our commercial reach, we have to accept that with the introduction of the oil and state money into the league, we can't compete on financial terms alone, indeed we can't seem to do that in any kind of coherent way now.
Tear the whole thing down and refocus on trying to become a centre of both player and coaching development.
Pretty much this, you can tell some people want ETH without knowing anything about him or the Ajax structure. He's stated many times he wants a structure in place where he can focus solely on coaching the team. Which means he doesn't want to be the 'manager' per se like the olden days, running the entire club from top to bottom like Fergie did. You can argue now with Murtough, Fletcher etc we currently now have this structure in place finally to allow a coach like Ten Hag to flourish.
If these quotes are reliable it reads to basically summarise that ETH wants a certain level of authority with regards to transfer policies. The same notion was also mentioned with the English journalists when the story broke how he enquired about the budget etc.
I think the club should have some skepticism giving managers total control over transfer policies. There should be joint responsibility from both the DOF or technical director and the manager to unanimously agree on targeted players with a view in hindsight that if the manager is unsuccessful in nurturing the team to success, when leaving a new manager does not have to totally gut the squad and begin a somewhat revolving door transition. This has been an issue with United having a spine of the team that changes consistently from manager to manager.
Pochettino is a good manager, what he did at Spuds is proof of that, but you certainly get the impression that if not past his best his star certainly isn't shining quite as bright.
He'd be the safe choice, track record, Premier League proven, managed big name players, the choice you'd make if you just looked at past performance, probably the closest you'd get to guaranteed top six.
But if you're looking for more than that, for what someone could achieve, to undergo a reset, develop a new identity, then you need to take a gamble.
But if you do gamble on Ten Hag then you need to give him time, accept that things might get worse before they get better and not get fixated on results.
More of the same is rarely the answer to turn around a failing organisation, time to roll the dice!
He'd be the safe choice, track record, Premier League proven, managed big name players, the choice you'd make if you just looked at past performance, probably the closest you'd get to guaranteed top six.
But if you're looking for more than that, for what someone could achieve, to undergo a reset, develop a new identity, then you need to take a gamble.
But if you do gamble on Ten Hag then you need to give him time, accept that things might get worse before they get better and not get fixated on results.
More of the same is rarely the answer to turn around a failing organisation, time to roll the dice!
If I were him, I'd really take advantage of the "anything you want to ask us" portion of the interview to ask 2 main questions:
- Given your experiences with the past 4(5?) managers, why did you think I was a good fit to succeed in this role?
- In your words, what are the reasons for your recent failures and what would you do differently to avoid the same outcomes?
My decision will greatly hinge on the amount of self-awareness displayed in these answers.
- Given your experiences with the past 4(5?) managers, why did you think I was a good fit to succeed in this role?
- In your words, what are the reasons for your recent failures and what would you do differently to avoid the same outcomes?
My decision will greatly hinge on the amount of self-awareness displayed in these answers.
I could see a scenario where Real Madrid are on the lookout for a new manager this summer. If United don't pounce before the end of the season, you might not have a free run at him.
I agree
The vast majority on here have no inkling of how he operates and many might be in for a rude awakening.
Nice post. It'll be really interesting to see how ETH tries to replicate this if he's appointed, was thinking about this yesterday and had it something like this where I've actually flipped it the other way like you mentioned:
-----------------------------CF/Ronaldo--------------------------
Bruno-----------------------------------------------------Sancho
--------------------------------- VDB--------------------------------
-------------------Fred-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------DM/McTominay----------------
Shaw/Telles--------------------------------------------------------
-------------------CB/Maguire------Varane-------Lindelof
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------GK/De Gea -------------------------
Bruno in the Antony role is debatable, but I can just imagine those angled passes/crosses he can play in to the box which has always been a big part of what Ajax have done with this position with him and previously Ziyech. He'd be brilliant at it and they'd be impossible to defend at times. But I agree Sancho could also fill that role, less dangerous balls in to the box but has the ability to beat players and carry it like Anthony can do also. Bruno would work in the Tadic role too on the other side as a wide-playmaker if you wanted to swap them, where he can still put effective crosses in.
Van De Beek could then slot into the Berghuis #8/#10 type role where he can get up and down the pitch better and support where needed, obviously there is a connection there from his time at Ajax too and you'd figure ETH would want to reintegrate him in the side if he can, though this would obviously require his form to pick up in a big way.
Fred can kind of work in that mezzala role that Gravenberch fills, he certainly has the engine for it and has shown an ability to be more effective in the final third this season.
I then had Shaw/Telles being the attacking FB, I think that works because Shaw seems to be at his best when he driving forward on to the ball but also because if he's out of form, you can bring Telles in and he's then slotted in to the team in an ideal role.
Lindelof is an interesting one, ideally you might want somebody else here as he's not very effective going forward, but you would say the same about Blind as he's not very mobile these days. Really it's about being solid defensively and progressive passing. I think Lindelof's a pretty good passer between the lines especially if you can create him some time and space for him like Ajax manage to do with Blind, and he can also hit those long passes over the top to the targetman when needed.
Ideally those positions I've marked I think you want replacements:
- GK - Utd really lack in their ability to build from the back compared to other top sides and it's noticeable that the issue starts here. If Ten Haag can bring Andre Onana with him on a free from Ajax I think he'd instantly improve them in this regard, brilliant at playing out from the back with either foot as well as being an agile shot-stopper, better off his line and more commanding of his area. This is probably unrealistic though in that I highly doubt Utd go in to next season without one of De Gea or Henderson starting.
- CB - Maguire's in bad form and doesn't really fit here, Ten Haag is pretty bold in that he'll stagger his defence and push centre-backs up to create space but there's a risk if you lose the ball and you need agility/recover pace which he just doesn't have. I can see why there are links to Akanji for this reason, I also really like Fikayo Tomori here as he's very quick and a great 1-v-1 defender.
- DM - there's really no fit here for United regardless of the system. In this one, I think Boubacar Kamara would be a decent shout especially on a free. He's similar to Alvarez in that he's a holding midfielder who's also comfortable at CB and that he's more technical than physical (although he can certainly hold his own).
- CF - you need a long-term fix here, although if Ronaldo stays I think you could make the system work with him. DCL would have been a good fit here I think - agile target man who will lead the press from the front and can score goals, but form & fitness have been an issue this season.
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Do you think there's a reason Ten Hag hasn't been approached by one of the bigger clubs since his 2019 exploits in the champions league? Chelsea, Real and Arsenal for example could've been possible destinations. At a stretch even Barcelona could've taken a look after sacking Koeman and they have a great relationship with Ajax and Dutch coaches
Looks like this could be the way United and all the ex players that wanted pochettino get there wish. ETH could easily reject us and move to Madrid. Can see it all going wrong for us now.
so your suggesting
........................................Onana..................................
Lindeloff----------Varane----------------Tomori---------Shaw
------------------------Kamara---------------Fred---------------------
---------------------------------------VDB----------------------------------
Bruno--------------------Calvert-Lewin-------------------Sancho
yeah I'm feeling generous so I'm just gonna call that underwhelming and leave it at that
I'm not aware of any big clubs that have lodged official or unofficial (by the way of persistent rumors/paper talk) interest in him before united save Spurs. The two other unnamed clubs that are supposedly looking at him are said to not be one of the giants, but CL clubs.
Well there's a very realistic chance that United aren't playing Champions League football next season so yeah, it's gonna be slightly underwhelming. Especially when you're unlikely to make wholesale changes, I think 4-5 major signings is probably the most you can expect in a window, particularly when we're talking about a club who historically have moved at a snail's pace in the transfer market over the last decade.
Who would be your targets to fit an ETH system? In fairness I did say DCL would have been ideal, i.e. if he carried on his form from last season, but that hasn't been the case. The likes of Kamara and Lindelof could probably be upgraded in an ideal world, but I was trying to keep this fairly realistic in terms of players who would actually want to join and net spend.
Ten Hag is 52 and come end of this season and has been at Ajax for 4 and a half years
There was always that feeling with Poch Spurs in 2016-2018/2019 period that thay can't play well forever with small investments and best players being on relatively low wages. And it happened in 2019. After losing CL final think they just gave up next season, Poch couldn't motivate them anymore.
The quotes suggest that's how ETH operated in his first clubs and they also come off as mere opinion. That opinion goes against fact. Hag's first managed clubs before his assistant manager stints at Twente and PSV were Go Ahead Eagles, Bayern Munich II and Utrecht. At Go Ahead Eagles he had the same role, head coach. At Utrecht he doubled as Sporting director and head coach. This is the only appointment in his coaching history where he dealt with transfers, recruitments and other operations beyond coaching.
In my opinion he found the perfect fit at Ajax and wants to continue with that structure where he focuses on coaching and leaves the rest to the (hopefully) capable hands of the clubs he coaches.
I don't understand any of the suggestions that players wouldn't play for Ten Hag because he's not well established enough or that the bigger egos won't respect him. The players want the same thing we do, to win. They also have a far better understanding of football and tactical intricacies than most fans do and will therefore recognise the ability of the man from watching Ajax play. If we're excited to have a progressive manager at the helm, then they'll be even more welcoming to him than us fans will.
You need a manager worth doing that for. I think Ten Hag might be one, don't think any of our others have been really, much as I like Mourinho. Style of play and ability of Ten Hag both suggest he's worth taking the chance on of backing him over the players should there be any dissent. LVG's reign showed what happens when you back the manager blindly and he's not good enough for one reason or another though.
Great word
Potentially United's first bald manager.
Interesting times.
Interesting times.
Stop letting this Van Der Kraan put doubt in your mind about Utd getting him
This is exactly what I dont get about Ten Haag appointment. Not one of those players an ideal fit. As in if he started from scratch he wouldnt buy them for his system. You already highlighted the players needed in bold. But then you still have Lindelof and Shaw in unfamiliar roles. Will they work? Who knows. Plus Shaw has been a disaster this season and Varane injury prone. Then you have Fred in midfield. He does not have the passing ability to be a mezzala and he needs to operate in tight areas which is not his best. He has some attributes but he is far from an ideal fit. Bruno on the left is not his position and he will struggle there. I wont go into that because its obvious. Plus moving Sancho to the RW when we have decided he plays best on the left is another shift that may or may not work. Then there is the 37 year old Ronaldo and lastly the only player that is ideal for this system is DVB and we all know how underwhelming he has been at Everton. Not to mention that Ajax are only second to Liverpool with the most presses and most possession in the Champions league and you look at this squad of players and you wonder how the fk he is going to do that.
However Ten Haag is known as an astute technician and he has built two different teams to fit players that have left so maybe he will get it to work. But I suspect it will look very different to his Ajax side and very similar to the side we have now. To start with at least.
-----------------------------CF/Ronaldo--------------------------
Sancho-----------------------------------------------------Rashford
--------------------------------- Bruno--------------------------------
-------------------Fred-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------DM/McTominay----------------
Shaw-------------Maguire------Varane-------Dallot
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------De Gea -------------------------
But if United are totally committed to this new style and willing to spend 250-300 mill this would be an idea for a team that would fit
-----------------------------Kane--------------------------
Sancho-----------------------------------------------------Raphina
--------------------------------- Fabian Ruiz--------------------------------
-------------------Tchouaméni-------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------Kamara----------------
Shaw-------------Maguire------Varane------- Mazraoui
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------Henderson -------------------------
Yeah that looks unrealistic but its just an idea where we need to go and how far we need to go. Even with this spending we probably need another big transfer window.
Kane - 100
Raphina - 50
Ruiz - 50
Tchouameni - 50
Kamara - Free
Mazraoui - Free
Total - 250 but we could sell Bruno + Rashford for 70 each + Martial we should get over 150
So is it cocks in our out? I was almost completely unzipped, but things appear to have slowed down?
No his hype was born from their league form. The manner and style in which they win is very impressive. The CL runs however did confirm beyond doubt that the league form isn’t a fluke.
Also, for context, Ten Hag is not an Ajax guy. He never had any links to the club (or another top club, apart from managing Bayern Munich 2) until he became its coach a few years ago. (Which is part of the reason Ajax fans were quite apprehensive about and underwhelmed by his appointment at first.)
Not that I don't rate ETH but lets be honest here, it is the Ajax way, its not like he went in to Ajax and revolutionised them, they play that football from the academy.
Not just that, it is they type of football they have played for years even before Ten Hag. Its the Ajax philosophy.
He's not actually an Ajax evangelist in regards to their style of play. His approach appears to incorporate vertical passing and high pressing along with the possession game they're accustomed to.
Yes I do agree. It is a fair point for our own expectations if he does become our manager. He won’t be taking over a well oiled machine like Ajax, he will be trying to create a team from a disjointed and poorly trained squad. I do think he has enough credit in the bank though that players and fans will be patient.
It would be very understandable. Imagine leaving the pristine and well-oiled club structure of Ajax to come and work at our clown show.
This is why the club will go for someone like Poch in the end, who's less likely to complain about the status quo at the club as he is also currently working at a circus.
This might be true but lets not forget how easy it is to turn on someone. We have to make sure we give him the time, as long as he knows what he is trying to do and we see signs of improvement.
I wouldn't want to see him do what Ralf is doing, I know the circumstances are different but it happened to Jose and Ole as well where the burden of results became too big. Instead of playing their style, they went into results mode, what Ralf has done in the last few months.
I want to see ETH stick to his principles, yes some results might not go our way but its the only way we come out of this.
I agree largely - you have to think they'll be a multi-year rebuild though so several of those players will have to continue to play significant roles in the meantime. Let's be honest whoever United get in there are going to be players who stick out as being bad fits in whatever system is implemented; Ten Haag is no worse a fit overall than Pochettino, Conte or even Tuchel.
I wouldn't argue at all with signing 6 new starters, but you'd have to imagine that will be over a couple of seasons. I would think they'd be happy with achieving a top 4 finish and strong progress made towards implementing his philosophy in his first season, then the summer of 2023 being about adding the final pieces to challenge for the title.
This take is poor. The only way he turns us down is if he has no ambition.
People forget the lure of the PL, let alone Manutd.
It's quite interesting that he was 2nd team coach during Pep's time.
Not putting his success on Pep; but it should be good to learn from.
Not putting his success on Pep; but it should be good to learn from.