Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed
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The football structure at United is now primed for a head coach to succeed similar to what happened at Liverpool after the sacking of Rodgers. The difference was that Klopp came in and embraced the recruitment departments at Liverpool and everything else is history.
So Liverpool went from a manager model to a DoF/head coach model under Klopp, and people like Edwards who were being ridiculed by Liverpool fans and media alike became key figures in their revival as a club.
United up until 2018, didn't have a recruitment structure that could rival teams like City, Liverpool, and Leicester to name a few. But that isn't the case anymore, and like we saw at Liverpool under Rodgers, where he the manager was afforded the luxury of having his own personal recruitment staff by the Liverpool board, which undermined the club's recruitment departments led by Michael Edwards. Solskjaer was allowed to do the same by having his own personal scout and Mike Phelan in key recruitment positions. Both the United and Liverpool board were the same in that regard, but like I said earlier, Liverpool appointed Klopp as the manager and he understood his role as the head coach and not the manager. It was Klopp who made Michael Edwards the de-facto DoF at a time when Liverpool had recently sacked Rodgers.
The structure is there for a head coach to succeed. Erik ten Hag might have a advantage here because two of the key players in the recruitment structure are Marcel Bout and former Ajax employee Henny de Regt who was at Ajax for 18 years.
So United's football structure is as follows from what I've heard via podcasts from people working at the club or working in the recruitment industry at various different clubs.
The owners and Arnold by default have to be involved at some stage.
John Murtough (DoF)
Deputy (DoF)?
Mick Court (Head of data analytics)
Marcel Bout (Head of recruitment/scouting)
Jim Lawlor (Chief Scout)
Henny de Regt (Head of European scouting)
David Harrison (Head of Youth recruitment)
And under the above figureheads are about 60 full-time scouts and about 300 to 400 casual scouts. If a new man (Head Coach) comes in and understands his role as the Head Coach and not the manager, like we saw at Liverpool with Klopp. Then I'm pretty confident that we'll be on the right track and we'll finally be able to create conditions for a streamlined approach to recruitment, which has been missing for a long time now.
So Liverpool went from a manager model to a DoF/head coach model under Klopp, and people like Edwards who were being ridiculed by Liverpool fans and media alike became key figures in their revival as a club.
United up until 2018, didn't have a recruitment structure that could rival teams like City, Liverpool, and Leicester to name a few. But that isn't the case anymore, and like we saw at Liverpool under Rodgers, where he the manager was afforded the luxury of having his own personal recruitment staff by the Liverpool board, which undermined the club's recruitment departments led by Michael Edwards. Solskjaer was allowed to do the same by having his own personal scout and Mike Phelan in key recruitment positions. Both the United and Liverpool board were the same in that regard, but like I said earlier, Liverpool appointed Klopp as the manager and he understood his role as the head coach and not the manager. It was Klopp who made Michael Edwards the de-facto DoF at a time when Liverpool had recently sacked Rodgers.
The structure is there for a head coach to succeed. Erik ten Hag might have a advantage here because two of the key players in the recruitment structure are Marcel Bout and former Ajax employee Henny de Regt who was at Ajax for 18 years.
So United's football structure is as follows from what I've heard via podcasts from people working at the club or working in the recruitment industry at various different clubs.
The owners and Arnold by default have to be involved at some stage.
John Murtough (DoF)
Deputy (DoF)?
Mick Court (Head of data analytics)
Marcel Bout (Head of recruitment/scouting)
Jim Lawlor (Chief Scout)
Henny de Regt (Head of European scouting)
David Harrison (Head of Youth recruitment)
And under the above figureheads are about 60 full-time scouts and about 300 to 400 casual scouts. If a new man (Head Coach) comes in and understands his role as the Head Coach and not the manager, like we saw at Liverpool with Klopp. Then I'm pretty confident that we'll be on the right track and we'll finally be able to create conditions for a streamlined approach to recruitment, which has been missing for a long time now.
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To make that work, it probably helps to hire a coach who is used to working in that sort of structure, knows its advantages, and doesn't aspire to have power above the coaching job. That wasn't the case for Mourinho or Ole, for example, but Klopp was in a very similar environment at Dortmund, and so is Ten Hag at Ajax - and those environments worked very well for them.
Perhaps it would make sense for United if that were a criterion: a coach that's happy with this structure. (And not a coach that wants it differently, is happy to sign a contract that stipulates the limitation of the job, but then will try and influence or change things informally anyway.) It's an important long-term consideration.
You're absolutely correct.
With Klopp he understood that for him to succeed he needed help from the recruitment department. And hence he made Edwards the Sporting Director, because Edwards had a team behind him with man power/resources to execute strategies very quickly, which helps with mid to long-term planning.
And Klopp then added the guiding principle to which the recruitment departments worked towards when it came to identifying new recruits. And that guiding principle was to play the game in the opponents half, if I'm to explain that in basic terms.
Our rivals aren't doing anything complicated, it's actually very basic. I just hope we appoint someone who is happy to be a head coach. And I hope there is a criterion to this and we hire someone who will help us streamline our approach to recruitment, rather than what we've seen with past appointments who have been afforded the luxury of having their own recruitment staff. That is a always a red flag for me, because if you have one team who is 80 to a 100 strong on the recruitment side of the club, and you don't give them the control, then failure is a very real possibility in today's game.
It's still sounds like we're behind the curve with this appointment in analytics which was only in October. Doubt we'll be finding gems through data like Liverpool anytime soon. https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...first-director-of-data-science-8-october-2021
Dominic Jordan was appointed to improve the data analysis when it comes to things happening in real time. He wasn't brought in to improve our approach to recruitment.
Our data analysis team on the recruitment side is a 5 man team headed by Mick Court. But even statistics can't quantify most things when it comes to recruitment according to Ajax's head of data analytics. So from what I've learned over the years is that the football departments at clubs guide the data analytics department when it comes to recruitment. Marcel Bout does this at United before things are passed on to the data analysis team. Ajax do the same as confirmed by their head of data analytics. And Liverpool do the same thing and draw up a short list of targets for a particular position who fit the profile, via their scouts and then data is applied to the drawn up list.
Cheers (although it does also mention recruitment in that piece). Hopefully we are primed to use to make use of the set up going forward.
You're correct, he (Dominic Jordan) does mention recruitment further down the article. And you're correct, we have fallen behind Liverpool when it comes to data analytics.
But it seems like we're now making the right moves and as much as things may look gloomy in the short-term, I'm very optimistic that things will look much better in the mid to long-term
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Hopefully you are right but as you said its effect will take time.
Only reason why i am optimistic is the change in recruitment approach in academy was quite visible . We snapped up some very good youngsters before brexit. Its a shame we wont be able to get U18 signings from Europe now since we had a good identification structure in place. Hopefully we can replicate that for first team and put a system in place which is independent of manager.
I'm fully expecting teething problems and people will moan. But I think we have to be realistic and look to improve upon things slowly, starting with appointing someone who understands his role as the Head Coach and not the manager. I think that's very important.
Hopefully if they are doing their job right they should already have separate lists of targets suitable for Ten Hag football or Poch (or whoever) ready to pull the trigger on. If we're desperately chasing targets late in the window we'll know its all still a mess.
I genuinely believe Ten Hag is one of the next dominant managers of his era, along with Nagelsmann etc. Would be a great coup if we managed to tie him up.
Whom would he want to bring to OT, you reckon?
I'd like Antony and Timber.
I'd like Antony and Timber.
Seen this shit with rangnick. Will see how it pans out if he comes here
Definitely Antony as we need a right winger, I’d say gravenberch also as a DM and he’s only 19. I think for cb I’d prefer that Lisandro Martinez. Can basically get all the positions we need from them and they’d be massive upgrades on what we have
He's not a DM though.
I’m confident that Ten Hag will be our next manager, which is great and with the right backing, I think he could be really successful.
If it doesn’t pan out well though, put everything you own on Poch being the next one after him
If it doesn’t pan out well though, put everything you own on Poch being the next one after him
If he's first choice, it's done because there's nothing stopping it from happening.
He can play there though as he has done before for Ajax. Depends what kind of midfielder our new manager wants. If it’s a dm that’s good at passing and has good passing range then he might fit there. If it’s ten Hag then he’s going to want to play possession football and control games so he will want someone comfortable on the ball and someone who can pass. Where as we’ve been linked with a lot of DM that just sit, similar to matic.
Get him ffs, just get him.
So someone like Matic?
If he is the guy, why aren't we in for Onana and Mazraoui ? 2 huge upgrades we will need to make and is available for free.
Obviously a younger version, someone who can cover a lot of ground.
Timber is like 5’7 or 5’8, which is ridiculously short for a centre half.
Why would we be privy to this information now if we are in fact looking at these players? Are you basing this question on a lack of transfer rumors linking us to them? Bit of a strange question to be honest
182 cm according to transfermarkt.
Not ideal, but not that bad. Thiago Silva is 183 cm, I think.
I think he is the next manager. But we can't announce it till Ajax finish their season or they win the league before then. Their last game is the 15th May.
Cannavaro is 5’9” and is one of the best ever. Didn’t we also try and sign Kounde last season? He’s 5’10”.
Gravenberch is more like the Pogba-type if anything.Definitely Antony as we need a right winger, I’d say gravenberch also as a DM and he’s only 19. I think for cb I’d prefer that Lisandro Martinez. Can basically get all the positions we need from them and they’d be massive upgrades on what we have
Definitely Antony as we need a right winger, I’d say gravenberch also as a DM and he’s only 19. I think for cb I’d prefer that Lisandro Martinez. Can basically get all the positions we need from them and they’d be massive upgrades on what we have
Gravenberch is not a natural defensive midfielder, mate; his ideal role is as a #8 who can influence the match in the opposition half with a mixture of dribbling and quick link-ups with the attackers, and is very much a highlight reel prospect right now (rather than someone who has evidenced the ability to dominate a stretch of games to appropriately fill the Frenkie de Jong shaped vacuum in the team). To add, his passing nous and overall passing range is actually nothing to write home about at this moment in time — needs to be more concentrated and consistent in many aspects to make his mark as a difference-making midfielder at a big club. If he improves further and becomes more disciplined, tenacious and dependable with his decision-making, he could be comparable to Milinković-Savić (who occupies similar positions for Lazio, more so on the right), but that profile of free-ranging central midfielder is probably not what we need right now with Hannibal coming through the ranks (to hopefully succeed Pogba when the latter leaves on a Bosman).
Mazraoui is definitely upgrade, but I would stay clear of Onana. He always has a mistake in him as evidenced by the tie against Benfica.
So ETH has pretty much confirmed that he won't be managing Ajax next season. When asked about reports linking him to United, he didn't even mention that he has any plans of being at Ajax next season. The focus in on this season only and that's it.
Source: Erik ten Hag breaks silence after becoming Manchester United's preferred managerial candidate
Source: Erik ten Hag breaks silence after becoming Manchester United's preferred managerial candidate
I think you're reading too much into that. Pretty much every top manager in Europe would give that same scripted response.
I suspect its definitely his last season though.
Possibly. Usually the add the whole "I'm still contracted to Ajax so I plan to honor my contract" PR line. That's what set my inner muppet off.
Questions:
- How frequently does EtH promote youth? During his time at Ajax, has he brought through and nurtured any previously unheard/unknown (as opposed to highly touted sure things) of youngsters?
- Is he likely to bring backroom staff with him, if so, whom?
- Same goes for players - who would realistically be taken, if he were to dip into Ajax's pool of talent?
- Since they have a recruitment department, has EtH ever been acknowledged as having an eye or influence on an key talent that was brought into the club, or has he simply worked with what was put in front of him the whole time?
- How frequently does EtH promote youth? During his time at Ajax, has he brought through and nurtured any previously unheard/unknown (as opposed to highly touted sure things) of youngsters?
- Is he likely to bring backroom staff with him, if so, whom?
- Same goes for players - who would realistically be taken, if he were to dip into Ajax's pool of talent?
- Since they have a recruitment department, has EtH ever been acknowledged as having an eye or influence on an key talent that was brought into the club, or has he simply worked with what was put in front of him the whole time?
ETH is more like Sir Alex, than say someone like LVG when it comes to handling youth. Meaning that ETH isn't strictly tied to Ajax's youth team, but the system he uses benefits all young players including transfers from abroad.
As for unheard or underrated players, it's a bit hard to judge since the Ajax youth team is one of the best out there. So in order to get a better understanding we'll have to look at his time at Utrecht. According to one of their fans he promoted 5 youngsters from the youth team and the reserves along with a host of up and coming players.
Source: Why you should watch out for FC Utrecht's Erik ten Hag
So far reports say he is keen on bringing over Mitchell Van Der Gaag who is responsible for their defensive solidity. Up until the last month Ajax looked rock solid, but lately they've been shipping a lot more goals than usual, and that is even in Eredevise. Still, it's undeniable that he made them more defensively solid.
Who is Mitchell van der Gaag, assistant Ten Hag reportedly wants to bring to Manchester United
Depends on what he/our recruitment team will deem necessary. He seems to trust Mazraoui, Antony, Alvarez, Haller from what I've seen. Gravenberch has been very inconsistent even at Ajax, so he might deem him a gamble on the bigger stage. It so happens that our team is need of reinforcements in these exact areas. So maybe these guys. So far no reports have linked any of the Ajax players to us, which is weird considering everyone is saying Ten Hag is in pole position to get the job.
Outside of Ajax, Frankie de Jong might be an option.
At Ajax he had very minimal input because they have an amazing analytical department and their structure was top notch. As such he didn't need to go out of his way to influence decisions, though his opinion was strongly considered. For example: Haller was brought back because Ten Hag worked with him previously at Utrecht.
At Utrecht, he had a more hands on approach as he was more of classic British manager rather than just a coach. He was de facto a DoF/Manager hybrid as he was responsible for both the on field performances and off field affairs as well. He was handling the transfers, recruitment of both players and staff and a lot of other things. You can reference the first article from reddit I've linked above for more info.
Many thanks for your post, @Caesar2290. Very useful and informative.
37th minute and Ajax are down 1-2 at home against Fyenoord who missed a sitter too which could've made it a third. Crazy scoreline and game right now with Ajax throwing everything in attack.
This a big game for Ten Hag and Ajax. PSV are right behind them and play relegation threatened Fortuna Sittard later today and could possibly take the lead in the Eredivisie if Ajax lose this.
This a big game for Ten Hag and Ajax. PSV are right behind them and play relegation threatened Fortuna Sittard later today and could possibly take the lead in the Eredivisie if Ajax lose this.
They've been conceding too many goals lately. Fairly uncharacteristic of them.