Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

[Caesar2290]

Ten Hag has been coaching teams since 2002. Pochetinno retired from playing football in 2006/07. During that time ETH was assistant manager at FC Twente and even assisted Steve McClaren there. ETH had 192 games of top flight football management under his belt by 2009 when Pochettino got his first top flight job at Espanyol, just months after his very first job in management briefly coaching a women's team in 08

@Caesar2290 you never acknowledged this when you mentioned a false '6 year difference' in coaching experience between the two. You seem to have thought only 2015 and onwards matters when it comes to Ten Hag's experience.

There is a difference between coaching and being a manager as Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen will tell you.

But you're right, I didn't include his Bayern II spell were he had the highest win percentage of any manager ever at 67% or the fact that he promoted Go Ahead Eagles for the first time in 17 years to the top flight.

Let's be honest here, since ETH became a full time manager, every place he's been to he improved them dramatically. He didn't relegate anyone for starters.

But even so, I don't understand the age argument. Some players mature later in life. Look at Vardy and Drogba as an example. Same thing applies to managers.

The litmus test for a manager is how they behave when they get a semblance of a top job. Poch had shown us what he can do at both Spurs and PSG. He got/will get sacked at both

ETH has show us what he can do at Ajax. The result is this:



Between the 2 my choice is clear.

 

[JPRouve]

Ten Hag has been coaching teams since 2002. Pochetinno retired from playing football in 2006/07. During that time ETH was assistant manager at FC Twente and even assisted Steve McClaren there. ETH had 142 games of top flight football management under his belt by 2009 when Pochettino got his first too flight job at Espanyol, just months after his very first job in management coaching a women's team in 08

We are talking about head coaching at professional level. But I'm actually fine with the idea that ETH has no room for improvements since I never argued otherwise.

Now the point still stands that head coaches tend to be successful during the first half of their career for ETH that would be from 2012 to today and he has been more successful than Pochettino. One could make the argument that he was managing in a weaker league but then why Pochettino never went further than the round of 16 in EL with Tottenham, that's the Eredivisie of European football?

 

[BorisManUtd]

So his record in Europe at Ajax:
2018/19 semis of CL, out vs Spurs in last second of the game
2019/20 3rd in CL group (behind Valencia and Chelsea), out of Europa League v Getafe in round of 32
2020/21 3rd in CL group (behind Liverpool and Atalanta), out of EL vs Roma in quarter-finals
2021/22 1st in CL group (ahead of Sporting and Dortmund with maximum 18 points won), out vs Benfica in round of 16

Obviously most succesful was his first season in Europe, almost got to CL final, though since then it's not been that great, as promising at it looked this season when they were winning their group. Think ten Hag has really big potential as manager but also has done it at Ajax, club with probably better strucure than United, easier league, bigger budget than their rivals in Netherlands. United are mess and have been for a long time now, he'd face much more difficult environment.

I get why people want him so much, but please let's not go crazy about him before another disappointment. Even if he came it would take a massive job to get us anywhere near to required level.

 

[Cheimoon]

Ha, you missed my white text.

No I didn't, just wanted to write it anyway.

 

[Cheimoon]

He will never, not for any amount of money. At least not directly switching. It's about respect.

Oh I know, I'm really just wondering what this poster is smoking.

 

[Amadaeus]

So his record in Europe at Ajax:
2018/19 semis of CL, out vs Spurs in last second of the game
2019/20 3rd in CL group (behind Valencia and Chelsea), out of Europa League v Getafe in round of 32
2020/21 3rd in CL group (behind Liverpool and Atalanta), out of EL vs Roma in quarter-finals
2021/22 1st in CL group (ahead of Sporting and Dortmund with maximum 18 points won), out vs Benfica in round of 16

Obviously most succesful was his first season in Europe, almost got to CL final, though since then it's not been that great, as promising at it looked this season when they were winning their group. Think ten Hag has really big potential as manager but also has done it at Ajax, club with probably better strucure than United, easier league, bigger budget than their rivals in Netherlands. United are mess and have been for a long time now, he'd face much more difficult environment.

I get why people want him so much, but please let's not go crazy about him before another disappointment. Even if he came it would take a massive job to get us anywhere near to required level.

From that, it seems that eth is on the decline moreso than Pochettino. People keep using that poch best years are behind him, but not only is Pochettino younger than ETH, but at least he transitions from an average side to a top team and understand what is needed to handling big ego which at United, is nothing compared to psg

 

[Roario]

The ETH vs Poch discussion is probably irrelevant if Tuchel is available

Tuchel is pretty overrated on here.
Apart from his stint at PSG, he's only won two cups, albeit one being the champions league.
Chelsea with their squad has arguably underperformed this season.
Ten Hag feels like the right man for us now. He brings a clear style of play and has built two decent teams at Ajax.

 

[L1nk]

So his record in Europe at Ajax:
2018/19 semis of CL, out vs Spurs in last second of the game
2019/20 3rd in CL group (behind Valencia and Chelsea), out of Europa League v Getafe in round of 32
2020/21 3rd in CL group (behind Liverpool and Atalanta), out of EL vs Roma in quarter-finals
2021/22 1st in CL group (ahead of Sporting and Dortmund with maximum 18 points won), out vs Benfica in round of 16

Obviously most succesful was his first season in Europe, almost got to CL final, though since then it's not been that great, as promising at it looked this season when they were winning their group. Think ten Hag has really big potential as manager but also has done it at Ajax, club with probably better strucure than United, easier league, bigger budget than their rivals in Netherlands. United are mess and have been for a long time now, he'd face much more difficult environment.

I get why people want him so much, but please let's not go crazy about him before another disappointment. Even if he came it would take a massive job to get us anywhere near to required level.

From that, it seems that eth is on the decline moreso than Pochettino. People keep using that poch best years are behind him, but not only is Pochettino younger than ETH, but at least he transitions from an average side to a top team and understand what is needed to handling big ego which at United, is nothing compared to psg

I get it, but this is missing some context, and is part of the reason ETH wants out of Ajax regardless of if it's us or not. Ajax is a selling club. that great 18/19 campaign had a terrific team which was swiftly dismantled right after it.

They've lost De Ligt, De Jong, Ziyech, VDB, Dolberg, Botman, Dest etc

If we're going to talk about Pochettino working on almost no budget and best players leaving, then the same has to be said for ETH because he lost all of his best players, he's been quoted as saying it's hard to maintain any success in Europe when all of your best players are being sold.

This isn't an argument for one over the other, it's more like let's have some perspective and say there's both positives and negatives to both Pochettino and ETH, unless you are Amadaeus

 

[Darlington Padgett]

From that, it seems that eth is on the decline moreso than Pochettino. People keep using that poch best years are behind him, but not only is Pochettino younger than ETH, but at least he transitions from an average side to a top team and understand what is needed to handling big ego which at United, is nothing compared to psg

That won't show you that the core of his team got sold and he had to start all over. Its really hard not to see a decline in performances if every year your best players get sold. He has managed to develop and get that team playing really fast again.

 

[macheda14]

From that, it seems that eth is on the decline moreso than Pochettino. People keep using that poch best years are behind him, but not only is Pochettino younger than ETH, but at least he transitions from an average side to a top team and understand what is needed to handling big ego which at United, is nothing compared to psg

Yes let’s look at things without context. His first side were absolutely gutted of its key players.

Also age isn’t always Relevant, Poch is younger but has been a manager for longer. ETH is still fresher with his ideas and his methods.

Also again Poch now managing stars at PSG has given him experience in managing egos, but experience does not mean ability. He’s gone to PSG and ostensibly failed. They’re playing tumescent football and crashed out of the French Cup and fell apart in the CL. He may understand the task, but he doesn’t know how to approach it.

 

[United in sin]

There is a difference between coaching and being a manager as Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen will tell you.

But you're right, I didn't include his Bayern II spell were he had the highest win percentage of any manager ever at 67% or the fact that he promoted Go Ahead Eagles for the first time in 17 years to the top flight.

Let's be honest here, since ETH became a full time manager, every place he's been to he improved them dramatically. He didn't relegate anyone for starters.

But even so, I don't understand the age argument. Some players mature later in life. Look at Vardy and Drogba as an example. Same thing applies to managers.

The litmus test for a manager is how they behave when they get a semblance of a top job. Poch had shown us what he can do at both Spurs and PSG. He got/will get sacked at both

ETH has show us what he can do at Ajax. The result is this:



Between the 2 my choice is clear.

Your choice is clear but it's bullcrap to suggest being an assistant manager in a top flight league doesn't award you an advantage over someone coming into coaching years later no matter the entry level. When Pochettino was cutting his teeth in coaching Ten Hag already had way more experience and know how. Ten Hag has been dealing with the coaching side of the game at top flight clubs for longer than Pochettino. Since 2002 my friend. We can agree to disagree

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Pochettino might be a better manager than ETH. We don't know. We do know that he isn't as good as Klopp, Pep or even Tuchel though. ETH is an unknown entity. It's all about appetite for risk.

If we sign Pochettino we will probably get top 4 consistently but we won't win the PL for as long as the aforementioned superior managers are at our rivals.

If we sign ETH we may crash and burn but we also may win the league against anyone.

I was aboard the ETH hype train but to be honest, Tuchel seems like the best compromise between ambition and stability right now out of the three frontrunners.

 

[Matt851]

I don’t think his argument is weak (that managers generally don’t bottle games, it’s mostly a collective thing among players). I think you misconstrue the problematic. The ability to keep cool, organized, aggressive and balanced isn’t like some key a player or manager can collect and eternally carry around to keep the team from bottling. Messi has won everything but a WC, yet has been his team’s key man in several majestic bottles. United had some spectacular unravellings even under Ferguson. Tuchel watched PSG collapse several times, only to win the CL against odds last year, and Pep is the worlds most successful manager of the last fifteen years, regardless of his tendency to ‘overthink’ or ‘underthink’ decisive CL games for a decade now.

Bottlings are generally things brought together by circumstances and collective human reactions that seem almost impossible to safeguard against. If sometimes the lightning strikes twice in the same place, people dig up all manners of explanations to account for it, disregarding the simple fact that, just as lightning strikes pretty much by chance, if it strikes twice in the same place, it will generally be by chance too.

(Disclaimer: before anyone butts in with a point about lightning conductors, I think statistics will back up that football managers are not better lightning conductors than anyone else.)

Exactly however I suspect this level of nuance is lost on many on here who struggle to get beyond X is a bottler/waste of space.

Listening to journalists opinion on the managerial situation almost everyone says we would be lucky to have either poch or ETH, even if some have preferences, but both come with risks

 

[James Peril]

It's kind of a mental block for them I guess, bigger than EtH this failure.

Not really, Ajax are a small club from a small country (17M) relative to the big clubs around Europe from bigger nations. It’s just how it is, Rosenborg will never win the CL and Ajax most likely won’t do it «ever» again. A lot of things have changed since the 90’s, although Porto’s win wasn’t forever ago. Ajax missing out in the knock-outs is expected, but the overestimation of ten Hag on here is borderline dangerous, he would never reach those expectations given our lowly, current state. Would I mind him? I would gladly take him onboard, but I wouldn’t be silly enough to expect him to challenge the big boys in England.

 

[B. Munich]

Thats what Rio, Scholes and Hargreaves were all saying yesterday wasnt it.

I agree with you by the way

They are terrible pundits. They talk like the average fan, not like experts.

Scholes criticize Rangnick and in the next sentence he claims the new manager must be given at least 2 to 3 years time to implement his philosophy.

Rangnick got only 4 months. No preseason and no transfer window. Double standards at their best.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Yes let’s look at things without context. His first side were absolutely gutted of its key players.

Also age isn’t always Relevant, Poch is younger but has been a manager for longer. ETH is still fresher with his ideas and his methods.

Also again Poch now managing stars at PSG has given him experience in managing egos, but experience does not mean ability. He’s gone to PSG and ostensibly failed. They’re playing tumescent football and crashed out of the French Cup and fell apart in the CL. He may understand the task, but he doesn’t know how to approach it.

Tuchel went there and failed to win CL too. It doesn't make Tuchel a bad manager. It is not easy to win it otherwise Pep would have win it multiple times with city.

 

[Cassidy]

Tuchel went there and failed to win CL too. It doesn't make Tuchel a bad manager. It is not easy to win it otherwise Pep would have win it multiple times with city.

Tuchel didnt play tumescent football at PSG

 

[JPRouve]

Your choice is clear but it's bullcrap to suggest being an assistant manager in a top flight league doesn't award you an advantage over someone coming into coaching years later no matter the entry level. When Pochettino was cutting his teeth in coaching Ten Hag already had way more experience and know how. Ten Hag has been dealing with the coaching side of the game at top flight clubs for longer than Pochettino. Since 2002 my friend. We can agree to disagree

Let's say that ten Hag has 3 more years of experience since he started coaching at professional level in 2006 as the assistant at PSV. We can all agree on the fact that he has more experience, won more than Pochettino and rebuilt more teams than Pochettino.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Tuchel didnt play tumescent football at PSG

I got that ETG is the shiny new toy, but Poch is a great manager on his own. His achievements with Spurs are remarkable.

 

[JPRouve]

I got that ETG is the shiny new toy, but Poch is a great manager on his own. His achievements with Spurs are remarkable.

He is a good manager and his achievements with Spurs aren't remarkable, they are good but nothing else.

 

[always_hoping]

There is a difference between coaching and being a manager as Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen will tell you.

But you're right, I didn't include his Bayern II spell were he had the highest win percentage of any manager ever at 67% or the fact that he promoted Go Ahead Eagles for the first time in 17 years to the top flight.

Let's be honest here, since ETH became a full time manager, every place he's been to he improved them dramatically. He didn't relegate anyone for starters.

But even so, I don't understand the age argument. Some players mature later in life. Look at Vardy and Drogba as an example. Same thing applies to managers.

The litmus test for a manager is how they behave when they get a semblance of a top job. Poch had shown us what he can do at both Spurs and PSG. He got/will get sacked at both

ETH has show us what he can do at Ajax. The result is this:



Between the 2 my choice is clear.

Same here but I'd fear the business men running the club won't make the right choice.

 

[Grande]

The argument is weak, there is no debate to be had. Pochettino is the one that has never won anything without this group of player, not the other way around. Tuchel went to a CL final where PSG actually played well against Bayern, so again you can't even use Tuchel as a point of reference. You can't talk about a lack of objectivity when you bring up Pochettino and talk about his players having an history of bottling.

And I agree with your general idea, it just doesn't work for Pochettino, because he is the one with an history of bottling not his players.

I couldn’t find the definition of bottling in the dictionary you may be right, I’m not sure, but my Idea of bottling is: when you have an important target almost in the pocket, and then lose it by performing way, way below your normal standard in a crucial passage. Is this fair?

When I think of Pochettino being part of a bottle job, I think of the league run in when Leicester won. I do not think of falling of the pace when City and Liverpool simply didn’t lose points. I think letting in three goals in the second half away to Real Madrid is a bottle. How many bottle jobs do you credit to Pochettino? My memory isless than perfect tbh. Thinking of Tuchel, I think a couple of CL exits amounts to bottle jobs.

There is also the question - do anti-bottles count against? I would say that beating Ajax and Man city in extra time constitutes the opposite of bottling almost as much as when Chelsea snuck the CL final.

 

[Caesar2290]

Your choice is clear but it's bullcrap to suggest being an assistant manager in a top flight league doesn't award you an advantage over someone coming into coaching years later no matter the entry level. When Pochettino was cutting his teeth in coaching Ten Hag already had way more experience and know how. Ten Hag has been dealing with the coaching side of the game at top flight clubs for longer than Pochettino. Since 2002 my friend. We can agree to disagree

Tell that to Phelan, Rui Faria, Meulensteen and countless others who wanted to make the jump from coach to manager and failed. Coaching while helpful, doesn't translate to managerial experience.

To me you are just clutching at straws because your precious Poch hasn't got any solid ground to stand on. You're trying to create this narrative that because Poch is younger and has less experience he has room to grow and improve, where in reality we already know what he offers.

His mentality is questionable, and every time a team required a rebuild/rebalance he failed spectacularly as shown by his time at Espanyol, PSG and later into the Spurs stint. He is only good if he walks into a team that is ready or entering it's peak such as Soton and early days Spurs. In a way he is a discount version of Pep, good coach, but nothing more.

Every single job he had comes with an asterisk next to it. Oh, he did an amazing job at Espanyol, but they were relegated. Oh he did an amazing job at Spurs, but eventually he got fired for poor results, buying poorly and he didn't win a trophy because "they are Spurs". Oh he is doing his best at PSG but Leonardo and player power, etc etc. Every single time there is some sort of excuse for his shortcomings. I get it if it's once, but after a while it's a pattern.

ETH on the other hand is an unknown quality on the top stage. But every single managerial job he had he over performed. No excuses, no relegations, no state backed oil clubs, no nothing. The man is clearly on the upward trajectory.

As a matter of fact ETH is everything you claim Poch is, but better. He is supper adaptable as referenced by his time at Go Ahead Eagles and Utrecht and his "unorthodox anti-dutch" tactics then he moved to Ajax and adopted the typical 4-3-3 and thrived with it. He is an amazing coach that improves his players massively and always improves youth players. He doesn't require a system or a DoF to be mega successful to do the signings for him as evidenced by his time at Utrecht. Nor does he require a perfect of perfect players.

The only thing you can hold against ETH is that he hasn't managed in a bigger league, but that could have been applied to any top manager before they got their break: Klopp, Sir Alex, Mourinho, Wenger, etc

Face it, your Poch is Arsenal/Spurs level at best. Top4 is all that he offers. And now that the league has become even more competitive and we are also in need of the biggest overhaul rebuild since Fergie retired, your logic is to hire the man who has shown 0 signs he can oversee a successful rebuild and curb player power.

I got that ETG is the shiny new toy, but Poch is a great manager on his own. His achievements with Spurs are remarkable.

He took a team that was finishing 5th on average, to a team that was finishing 3rd on average while United and Pool were AWOL and all of that on a bigger net spend than Chelsea while having prime Kane, Son, Vertoghen at his disposal. Wow, remarkable indeed.

 

[Caesar2290]

I couldn’t find the definition of bottling in the dictionary you may be right, I’m not sure, but my Idea of bottling is: when you have an important target almost in the pocket, and then lose it by performing way, way below your normal standard in a crucial passage. Is this fair?

The way I look on it is you bottle something when you are up against an inferior opponent and you have the lead/advantage, but you end up losing.

Milan vs Pool in that CL final or Milan vs Deportivo where they won 4-1 the first leg and lost 4-0 the return leg.

Surprisingly, nobody calls Ancelotti a bottler. Probably because he actually won some major trophies.

 

[United in sin]

Tell that to Phelan, Rui Faria, Meulensteen and countless others who wanted to make the jump from coach to manager and failed. Coaching while helpful, doesn't translate to managerial experience.

To me you are just clutching at straws because your precious Poch hasn't got any solid ground to stand on. You're trying to create this narrative that because Poch is younger and has less experience he has room to grow and improve, where in reality we already know what he offers.

His mentality is questionable, and every time a team required a rebuild/rebalance he failed spectacularly as shown by his time at Espanyol, PSG and later into the Spurs stint. He is only good if he walks into a team that is ready or entering it's peak such as Soton and early days Spurs. In a way he is a discount version of Pep, good coach, but nothing more.

Every single job he had comes with an asterisk next to it. Oh, he did an amazing job at Espanyol, but they were relegated. Oh he did an amazing job at Spurs, but eventually he got fired for poor results, buying poorly and he didn't win a trophy because "they are Spurs". Oh he is doing his best at PSG but Leonardo and player power, etc etc. Every single time there is some sort of excuse for his shortcomings. I get it if it's once, but after a while it's a pattern.

ETH on the other hand is an unknown quality on the top stage. But every single managerial job he had he over performed. No excuses, no relegations, no state backed oil clubs, no nothing. The man is clearly on the upward trajectory.

As a matter of fact ETH is everything you claim Poch is, but better. He is supper adaptable as referenced by his time at Go Ahead Eagles and Utrecht and his "unorthodox anti-dutch" tactics then he moved to Ajax and adopted the typical 4-3-3 and thrived with it. He is an amazing coach that improves his players massively and always improves youth players. He doesn't require a system or a DoF to be mega successful to do the signings for him as evidenced by his time at Utrecht. Nor does he require a perfect of perfect players.

The only thing you can hold against ETH is that he hasn't managed in a bigger league, but that could have been applied to any top manager before they got their break: Klopp, Sir Alex, Mourinho, Wenger, etc

Face it, your Poch is Arsenal/Spurs level at best. Top4 is all that he offers. And now that the league has become even more competitive and we are also in need of the biggest overhaul rebuild since Fergie retired, your logic is to hire the man who has shown 0 signs he can oversee a successful rebuild and curb player power.


He took a team that was finishing 5th on average, to a team that was finishing 3rd on average while United and Pool were AWOL and all of that on a bigger net spend than Chelsea while having prime Kane, Son, Vertoghen at his disposal. Wow, remarkable indeed.

Im not clutching at any straws. Both our minds are made up. You completely disregarded Ten Hag's coaching history before 2015 so as to discredit Poch for being an 'older' manager in coaching terms since he got his first head coaching role in 2009. You didn't do your due diligence. Now you're speaking in glowing terms about Ten Hag's time at Bayern Munich II since you looked it up but before I mentioned it you didn't see the relevance of his experience prior to 2015. Talk about clutching at straws

Can't fault Pochettino for being fast tracked to head coaching roles at 36 while Ten Hag already had 7 years of coaching at different levels, including assistant manager at top flight clubs. If anything that assistant manager assistance experience gave him a real look at how clubs are run at that level, working as an understudy to experienced coaches, seeing their weaknesses, strengths, getting advice and knowing how to proceed when he eventually became a head coach himself. Pochetinno walked into a lions den at 36 with only a women's coaching stint under his belt.

 

[JPRouve]

I couldn’t find the definition of bottling in the dictionary you may be right, I’m not sure, but my Idea of bottling is: when you have an important target almost in the pocket, and then lose it by performing way, way below your normal standard in a crucial passage. Is this fair?

When I think of Pochettino being part of a bottle job, I think of the league run in when Leicester won. I do not think of falling of the pace when City and Liverpool simply didn’t lose points. I think letting in three goals in the second half away to Real Madrid is a bottle. How many bottle jobs do you credit to Pochettino? My memory isless than perfect tbh. Thinking of Tuchel, I think a couple of CL exits amounts to bottle jobs.

There is also the question - do anti-bottles count against? I would say that beating Ajax and Man city in extra time constitutes the opposite of bottling almost as much as when Chelsea snuck the CL final.

I don't really use the term bottle job, so I attribute zero to Pochettino. Now I have questions about the 15-16 PL run, and also about every single EL run they had since they never went further than round of 16 playing against Fiorentina, Gent and getting an almighty thumping against Dortmund. I don't really have a problem with them losing to Juventus and of course the final against Liverpool was admirable when you consider that they weren't good in the league. There is also the question about their regular early loses against the likes of Palace and West Ham in domestic cups.

For Tuchel there is only the tie against United.

 

[United in sin]

Let's say that ten Hag has 3 more years of experience since he started coaching at professional level in 2006 as the assistant at PSV. We can all agree on the fact that he has more experience, won more than Pochettino and rebuilt more teams than Pochettino.

Pochetinno built squads at Espanyol and Southampton with lasting impact. How's it his fault he had a different trajectory as far as teams he managed that had different needs to the ones ETH managed?

Ajax rebuild every few years, that's always been the job there. They are also the wealthiest Dutch club by far and offer the best platform for success in the Eredivisie. What has Ten Hag won outside of Ajax?

 

[Dec9003]

He is a good manager and his achievements with Spurs aren't remarkable, they are good but nothing else.

Was it not remarkable to get to a Champions League final with Spurs? I’d say it probably was I don’t expect them to be there again any time soon.

 

[JPRouve]

Pochetinno built squads at Espanyol and Southampton with lasting impact. How's it his fault he had a different trajectory as far as teams he managed that had different needs to the ones ETH managed?

Ajax rebuild every few years, that's always been the job there. They are also the wealthiest Dutch club by far and offer the best platform for success in the Eredivisie. What has Ten Hag won outside of Ajax?

He didn't build teams at Espanyol and Southampton, surely we are not going to give him credit for someone else's job? Who talked about Pochettino's fault, I mentioned ten Hag's achievements and compared them to Pochettino's.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Ajax hadn’t won a trophy for 5 prior years before Ten Hag. Exactly the same as us. Is it meant to be?

 

[Cassidy]

I got that ETG is the shiny new toy, but Poch is a great manager on his own. His achievements with Spurs are remarkable.

He is a good manager. Tuchel was much better at PSG that is clear

 

[JPRouve]

Was it not remarkable to get to a Champions League final with Spurs? I’d say it probably was I don’t expect them to be there again any time soon.

In isolation it could be remarkable. In the context of his tenure at Tottenham, it's remarkable for the wrong reason, it's the only decent run that he had in a continental competition. So how do you weight it? For example people still think that Deschamps is not a good manager, yet he also went to a CL final. I don't think that anyone rates Di Matteo or 2012 Chelsea either.

 

[Dec9003]

In isolation it could be remarkable. In the context of his tenure at Tottenham, it's remarkable for the wrong reason, it's the only decent run that he had in a continental competition. So how do you weight it? For example people still think that Deschamps is not a good manager, yet he also went to a CL final. I don't think that anyone rates Di Matteo or 2012 Chelsea either.

I think it’s the only time Tottenham have been to a Champions League final, along with finishing second on 86 points I’d say he did a very good job there. Ten Hag has only had one ‘decent’ run in Europe as well going by your logic, and that run was actually ended by a Tottenham side without Kane.

 

[Matt851]

Let's say that ten Hag has 3 more years of experience since he started coaching at professional level in 2006 as the assistant at PSV. We can all agree on the fact that he has more experience, won more than Pochettino and rebuilt more teams than Pochettino.

All in a farmers league

 

[Cassidy]

I think it’s the only time Tottenham have been to a Champions League final, along with finishing second on 86 points I’d say he did a very good job there. Ten Hag has only had one ‘decent’ run in Europe as well going by your logic, and that run was actually ended by a Tottenham side without Kane.

For an Ajax side Ten Hag has a track record good results in Europe over multiple seasons across both Europa League and UCL

 

[Dec9003]

For an Ajax side Ten Hag has a track record good results in Europe over multiple seasons across both Europa League and UCL

Does he though? He did well to get to a Champions League Semi final, but they’ve not gone deep into a competition since. Prior to his arrival they went to the final of the Europa League whereas he could only take them to the quarters, going out to Roma.

 

[horsechoker]

He's an aquarius, are we sure we want him?

 

[JPRouve]

I think it’s the only time Tottenham have been to a Champions League final, along with finishing second on 86 points I’d say he did a very good job there. Ten Hag has only had one ‘decent’ run in Europe as well going by your logic, and that run was actually ended by a Tottenham side without Kane.

That's what a good manager will do, not a great one. It was a good job not a very good one, a very good job would have been to actually win something and be better in cups, in particular in EL.

I don't really get why people are being so lenient when it comes to Pochettino, to the point where saying that he is a good manager but not great and that he did a good job instead of great is being debated. What would you guys be saying if he actually won something? I asked this question in his own thread but how what do you guys say about Simeone who did more with slightly less, while starting from a lower position?

Just a reminder, Pochettino only lost Walker among his starters, they financed their budgets with selling deadwood not members of the starting eleven which wasn't the case for someone like Simeone or ten Hag. Who both lost starters.

 

[Cassidy]

Does he though? He did well to get to a Champions League Semi final, but they’ve not gone deep into a competition since. Prior to his arrival they went to the final of the Europa League whereas he could only take them to the quarters, going out to Roma.

Yes he does given context of squads etc

 

[Dec9003]

Ajax hadn’t won a trophy for 5 prior years before Ten Hag. Exactly the same as us. Is it meant to be?

He signed for them in 2017 and they’d won the league in 2014.