Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

But this still doesn’t hold true. The exact same chance can be 0.8/0.9 xG in one game and 0.0 the next because, say, the striker isn’t mobile. Or just nobody got into the position. It’s still a good chance.

The two cases that you used aren't good chances. If you play a ball that doesn't suit your teammate you didn't create a good chance, you pass the ball poorly in the proper area you didn't create a good chance, if there is nobody going into the position you didn't create a good chance.

But you know what let's consider that xG is useless and tells you nothing. Who are our creative players, do we have as much or less of them than our direct opponents?
 
Don’t want to derail the ETH thread, but this is lazy narrative. Bruno has certainly not been our best player this season and he wasn’t good last season, certainly not from January onwards at least.

Since this is the ETH thread do you see him fitting in to ETH’s philosophy? I think if he can revert to the Bruno who played for us the end of the season he signed, the period that he still lives off, then he could be sensational in a functioning system. If he plays like he has for the last 16 months, and I couldn’t care less about his personal stats, he will ruin the system.

Man, you don’t need to repeat your opinions on Bruno in every thread
 
Worrying about Bruno should be the last thing we do when we still have passengers like Jones, Mata & Lingard, Pogba with unclear future, out of form Rashford, old Ronaldo, demotivated Maguire, non attacking AWB, no DM with Matic leaving next season, .... the list goes on and on but sure, sell the most impactfull player in the last 2-3 years on average because ETH seems like a bald idiot who doesnt know how to instruct players to fit into his system or vice versa. Just because Bruno didnt play the way you want to, he wont be able to do it in his life, yeah sure because football works like eFootball.

Seems like talking shit about Bruno gives some people a hard on.
 
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He’s right. Bruno is something of a luxury player who’s very capable of destroying a systemic side because he plays totally instinctively and takes every risk known to man.
Indeed.
Bruno fits the way we have played, there’s absolutely nothing to suggest he’ll transition.
I’m not sure about that. One thing massively in his favour is that he’s a hard worker. There’s no guarantee that ETH will be able the get him to channel his industry into a more system-friendly way, but it’s certainly worth a try.
Nobody is saying he should be first out the door, but his position could be very very different in 18 months time.
Oh definitely.
 
Worrying about Bruno should be the last thing we do when we still have passengers like Jones, Mata & Lingard, Pogba with unclear future, out of form Rashford, old Ronaldo, demotivated Maguire, non attacking AWB, no DM with Matic leaving next season, .... the list goes on and on but sure, sell the most impactfull player in the last 2-3 years on average because ETH seems like a bald idiot who doesnt know how to instruct players to fit into his system or vice versa. Just because Bruno didnt play the way you want to, he wont be able to do it in his life, yeah sure because football works like eFootball.

I don't think that we have to worry about Jones, mata and Lingard. We should worry about our starting eleven and nothing else, whoever is pushed out of it becomes a squad player and pushes fringe players out. You build from the top not the bottom. So in the context of ETH, we should definitely focus on how certain starting players may fit or understand what ETH wants or expects.
 
Don’t want to derail the ETH thread, but this is lazy narrative. Bruno has certainly not been our best player this season and he wasn’t good last season, certainly not from January onwards at least.

Since this is the ETH thread do you see him fitting in to ETH’s philosophy? I think if he can revert to the Bruno who played for us the end of the season he signed, the period that he still lives off, then he could be sensational in a functioning system. If he plays like he has for the last 16 months, and I couldn’t care less about his personal stats, he will ruin the system.

As far as I understand ETH, he will initially work with what he has ie he is pragmatic enough as seen in the way he built Ajax initially and after the following re-built. He's not dogmatic in his approach but maybe his philosophy.
So yes, I would expect him to figure out how best to utilise Bruno. He is creative enough a coach to figure it out.
 
As far as I understand ETH, he will initially work with what he has ie he is pragmatic enough as seen in the way he built Ajax initially and after the following re-built. He's not dogmatic in his approach but maybe his philosophy.
So yes, I would expect him to figure out how best to utilise Bruno. He is creative enough a coach to figure it out.
Ok so it’s on ETH
 
The two cases that you used aren't good chances. If you play a ball that doesn't suit your teammate you didn't create a good chance, you pass the ball poorly in the proper area you didn't create a good chance, if there is nobody going into the position you didn't create a good chance.

I think you may be putting slightly too much emphasis on the passer and too little on the receiver. Both are needed to create a good chance. Hakim Ziyech and Donny van de Beek were a fantastic pair for Ten Hag in this regard.

It's for that reason I think Bruno and Donny can't be alternatives to one another. They could be great in a system together.
 
I would buy a new RB and start with Bruno as the right sided forward. (similar to Bernardo Silva)

Sancho on the left + new CF.

Buy a new CMF and work with what he has already plus the youth.

3 players isn’t unrealistic CF, RB, CMF

Get top 4. Try to win the FA Cup or Europa.

On paper the United job isn’t that hard! But we all know Ten Hag will have an epic amount of bs to deal with on and off the pitch.
 
I don't think that we have to worry about Jones, mata and Lingard. We should worry about our starting eleven and nothing else, whoever is pushed out of it becomes a squad player and pushes fringe players out. You build from the top not the bottom. So in the context of ETH, we should definitely focus on how certain starting players may fit or understand what ETH wants or expects.
Very much so!

There are loads of reasons why having an accumulation of barely-used squad players on massive wages hanging around the dressing room and training ground is a Bad Thing.

But fans don’t half get obsessed with them when it’s clear to see that so many regular starters are either seriously underperforming or just not good enough, which is a far more pressing issue.
 
To be fair, the same applies to Liverpool, City and just about every team that adopts the high press. The counter is that with better players, you reduce the number of turnovers by being better in possession.
Yep and having strong, pacey defenders (VVD, Walker etc) good in 1 v 1 situations also means you can recover against the counter. Leeds just didn’t have that same level of quality.

It’s probably why Leeds/Soton get a thumping every so often.
 
I think you may be putting slightly too much emphasis on the passer and too little on the receiver. Both are needed to create a good chance. Hakim Ziyech and Donny van de Beek were a fantastic pair for Ten Hag in this regard.

It's for that reason I think Bruno and Donny can't be alternatives to one another. They could be great in a system together.
The poster is right. If you play a ball into a dangerous area where there is no one. Its not a great chance. If u pass the ball to someone who has a poor left foot and put it on their left foot its also not a good chance. The best players understand how their teammate wants to receive the ball and where. That is the difference between good and top class players.

The same also applies to recievers, ability to find space, anticipate play etc and of course it helps if they are adept in using both feet too. Top class strikers can turn not to great chances (passes behind them, or onto their wrong foot, or too close to defenders, or with incorrect weight into goals anyway. Thats the difference between a good and a top class striker
 
I think you may be putting slightly too much emphasis on the passer and too little on the receiver. Both are needed to create a good chance. Hakim Ziyech and Donny van de Beek were a fantastic pair for Ten Hag in this regard.

It's for that reason I think Bruno and Donny can't be alternatives to one another. They could be great in a system together.

I'm putting no emphasis, it's because you need to consider the passer and the receiver that it's a bit silly to consider that a pass that doesn't suit the receiver is still a good chance.
 
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Any news?
They have a cup final v PSV this weekend (today?). So definitely won’t hear anything until next week and even then it seems like ETH wants to focus on finishing the league season (tight title race with PSV) first. At his press conference this week he was asked the question about signing for us directly and didn’t deny anything. Just shrugged it off and said he’s only focused on the cup final.
 
I don't think that we have to worry about Jones, mata and Lingard. We should worry about our starting eleven and nothing else, whoever is pushed out of it becomes a squad player and pushes fringe players out. You build from the top not the bottom. So in the context of ETH, we should definitely focus on how certain starting players may fit or understand what ETH wants or expects.
We should worry about them because of their wages while contributing nothing, it's a past mistake the club should rectify to move on and because if we let them go, you can be sure the club will bring some players in. Fresh legs, fresh minds. Even squad players, that matters a lot. What message do you send to the new players when they see those players barely playing and enjoying a good salary regardless?

As for Bruno, the club extended his contract around at the same time ETH rumors started to spread. With Ralf here I doubt they would have done it if he was one of the players that need to kicked out, surely they would have consulted Ralf and if there's any doubt about Bruno, they could have just delayed it. I fail to understand how a very productive player could be problematic under a manager that's worth his mettle. Unless if he starts having off the pitch issues, I don't think ETH would consider him redundant/problematic enough to be sold. At the very basic, Bruno has always pressed when asked even though it looked pointless. With a better system, with the same workrate and his teammates helping it should bear a fruit. Hence why I'm doubting players like Ronaldo or other sleepwalking type of players because they certainly aren't used to pressing but not Bruno.

On top of that, who's to say that ETH has never had a player with limitations before? one example is Tadic. If you look at his numbers, he looks productive. Even at 33. He's certainly not as mad as Bruno when it comes into hard work. Far from it. Do you think ETH fancies a 33 y.o Tadic (whose productivity should be the main reason why he plays) but doesn't fancy Bruno because he keeps playing those risky passes that ends up to the opponent? he can just tell him what to do, what not to do, he's the boss. It makes no sense.
 
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Ten Hag obviously hasn’t told his players he’s moving, which makes sense as he’d want them fully focused on finished the season well. Tadic said in his press conference he hopes ten Hag stays as he’s one of the best coaches in the world and he thinks tactically 2 steps ahead of the opponent. That’s good to hear… next season is going to be interesting, we’ve not had a modern manager since fergie left, they’ve all been old school. If he can hit the ground running straight away then we’re in for a good season.

What makes Rangknick 'old school' in your eyes?
 
We should worry about them because of their wages while contributing nothing, it's a past mistake the club should rectify to move on and because if we let them go, you can be sure the club will bring some players in. Fresh legs, fresh minds. Even squad players, that matters a lot. What message do you send to the new players when they see those players barely playing and enjoying a good salary regardless?

As for Bruno, the club extended his contract around at the same time ETH rumors started to spread. With Ralf here I doubt they would have done it if he was one of the players that need to kicked out, surely they would have consulted Ralf and if there's any doubt about Bruno, they could have just delayed it. I fail to understand how a very productive player could be problematic under a manager that's worth his mettle. Unless if he starts having off the pitch issues, I don't think ETH would consider him redundant/problematic enough to be sold. At the very basic, Bruno has always pressed when asked even though it looked pointless. With a better system, with the same workrate and his teammates helping it should bear a fruit. Hence why I'm doubting players like Ronaldo or other sleepwalking type of players because they certainly aren't used to pressing but not Bruno.

On top of that, who's to say that ETH has never had a player with limitations before? one example is Tadic. If you look at his numbers, he looks productive. Even at 33. He's certainly not as mad as Bruno when it comes into hard work. Far from it. Do you think ETH fancies a 33 y.o Tadic (whose productivity should be the main reason why he plays) but doesn't fancy Bruno because he keeps playing those risky passes that ends up to the opponent? he can just tell him what to do, what not to do, he's the boss. It makes no sense.

Two of these players are out of contract and their wages aren't worth any focus for this club.
 
They have a cup final v PSV this weekend (today?). So definitely won’t hear anything until next week and even then it seems like ETH wants to focus on finishing the league season (tight title race with PSV) first. At his press conference this week he was asked the question about signing for us directly and didn’t deny anything. Just shrugged it off and said he’s only focused on the cup final.

The KNVP cup final is on Sunday
 
I'm putting no emphasis, it's because you need to consider the passer and the receiver that it's a bit silly to consider that a pass that suit the receiver is still a good chance.

Right, but from your specific post that I quoted, you did focus on the passer and whether or not they created a good chance. I'm saying that chance creation is a function of team play in such a context - you could even go further and credit dummy runners and the like. And hopefully, Ten Hag can improve us in all of those aspects. It would be interesting in that light to think of which players could work where.

I realise you might think I'm arguing against the concept of xG by your previous conversation with another poster. I'm actually just replying to your examples in the context of the thread we're in.
 
Right, but from your specific post that I quoted, you did focus on the passer and whether or not they created a good chance. I'm saying that chance creation is a function of team play in such a context - you could even go further and credit dummy runners and the like. And hopefully, Ten Hag can improve us in all of those aspects. It would be interesting in that light to think of which players could work where.

I realise you might think I'm arguing against the concept of xG by your previous conversation with another poster. I'm actually just replying to your examples in the context of the thread we're in.

I was answering to a point made about passes. Read the post that I answered to and then my post, I used the scenarios that were given to me. These weren't my examples.
 
They have a cup final v PSV this weekend (today?). So definitely won’t hear anything until next week and even then it seems like ETH wants to focus on finishing the league season (tight title race with PSV) first. At his press conference this week he was asked the question about signing for us directly and didn’t deny anything. Just shrugged it off and said he’s only focused on the cup final.
Thanks, will definitely try to catch the final.
 
I was answering to a point made about passes. Read the post that I answered to and then my post, I used the scenarios that were given to me. These weren't my examples.

I already had, but well done you anyway. Guess that's the end of that discussion. Enjoy your weekend!
 
Interesting Athletic article which compares Ten Hag's approach and the Utd players. Doesn't look great for De Gea or AWB.
 
Did I rub you the wrong way?

On the contrary I thought I was rubbing you the wrong way!

In the context of the Erik Ten Hag thread, I found the specific comment I quoted a pretty good jumping point for discussing how he might get us creating chances. Figured you might have felt like I was jumping in on you.
 
On the contrary I thought I was rubbing you the wrong way!

In the context of the Erik Ten Hag thread, I found the specific comment I quoted a pretty good jumping point for discussing how he might get us creating chances. Figured you might have felt like I was jumping in on you.
We are both a bit confused.:lol:

No, I totally agree with what you said and you put it well.
 
I would take xG over people repeating the most chances created stat when the latter is just counting any pass resulting in a shot.
 
I think it's ridiculous that people are writing Bruno off. He's a top talent who's been starved of proper coaching for years. If Ten Hag can make a player out of Tadic he can do the same with Bruno.
 
I think it's ridiculous that people are writing Bruno off. He's a top talent who's been starved of proper coaching for years. If Ten Hag can make a player out of Tadic he can do the same with Bruno.

Pretty much
 
I think it's ridiculous that people are writing Bruno off. He's a top talent who's been starved of proper coaching for years. If Ten Hag can make a player out of Tadic he can do the same with Bruno.

I haven’t seen a single person write him off. A few have said that there’s a real chance that he won’t fit which is a fair concern, because Bruno is naturally something of a maverick, which doesn’t fit a systemic approach. It’s happened before and it’ll happen again.
 
It's strange that we've just been so consistently rubbish at it since Fergie retired. We've brought in some great players and good managers but the same malaise has been consistent throughout.

We haven't really brought a lot of players that are consistently creative, immediately I only have four names in mind Di Maria, Mata, Bruno and Sancho. Four creative hubs in 9 years is not enough, particularly when two of them, Mata and Di Maria, have been relevant only one season.

Consistently creative players are difficult to find and rarely perfect. In my opinion you need to do two things, try to sign one every summer and do everything to put them in the right circumstances, any manager that tries to force these players out their comfort zone is a fool. So I do hope that ETH will try everything to get the best out of Bruno and Sancho. I also hope he realizes that Bruno is flawed and that bringing a player that can functionally replace him is important, if Bruno ends up as a squad player it means that United are stronger.