Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[Josep Dowling]

Beaten a poor Southampton side but made them look like prime Barcelona for the first 30 minutes. Beaten Fulham in the 90th minute. Dropped points in every other league game.

I’m judging Eric on the league only this season and it’s already not good enough after 5 games. Pretty much the same as last season but without the injuries. What’s his excuse now?

This season is already wasted with him in charge. To have lasted 3 seasons, with the money spent to build his squad we should be looking good enough for a comfortable top 4 finish.

Standards at the club have dropped so much.

 

[Schnappo]

Honestly if I could go back and change that league cup result to a 1-0 and chalk off 6 of our goals, I would. If we scraped through 1-0 then the man would be closer to the exit door this morning. It shouldn't ever be the case that thumping lower league opposition proves anything, but the margin of the win has given him a few more inches of rope that a lower score wouldn't have.

And what's your basis for this exactly? This thread is hilarious. Looks like quite a few folks in here would get more enjoyment out of us going on a winless streak than actually winning football matches.

 

[stevoc]

Second half wasn't completely crap, agreed after around 65 mins we stopped in our intensity and we were ponderous though. Which clubs this season maintain it for the full 90?

Yeah not completely crap. We were alright for 10 minutes after half time.

 

[VP89]

Yeah not completely crap. We were alright for 10 minutes after half time.

So which clubs maintain the intensity for a full 90 this season?

 

[Godfather]

Exactly spot on. But my question then is why is that a huge criticism on our manager. Unless he's expected to pick up the ball and punt it in the back of the net himself.

His subs lacked any inspiration and bottle. In a situation like that Fergie would throw the ktichen sink at their defence for the last 15. EtH is a coward and his in game management is atrocious. The sooner he gets the sack the better

 

[Leftback99]

Last season we were a team that struggled to finish 8th, this season we look like a team that will struggle to finish 5th.

It’s an improvement but still far away from what we should be after 3 seasons in charge. I have no faith at all in Ten Hag.

His assistants do seem to have added some positives to the team though.

5th would seem very ambitious at this point. We're heading towards 8th again most likely.

 

[VP89]

His subs lacked any inspiration and bottle. In a situation like that Fergie would throw the ktichen sink at their defence for the last 15. EtH is a coward and his in game management is atrocious. The sooner he gets the sack the better

He was blasted for doing this last season and losing games because of absolute naievity going forward. He's not in a Fergie position to do this. He needs to keep it tight and control games, create as much as he can.

The zirkzee sub I agree was poor. But the Hojlund and Ugarte introductions were definitely right and we had around 20 mins to go at thar point.

 

[stevoc]

So which clubs maintain the intensity for a full 90 this season?

Once a team is a few goals up do they need to maintain the intensity that got them into that position?

 

[Oranges038]

Once a team is a few goals up do they need to maintain the intensity that got them into that position?

Utd played the last 30 mins like they were 3-0 up.

 

[Godfather]

So which clubs maintain the intensity for a full 90 this season?

So it's too much of an ask to expect a football team assembled by hundreds of millions to try and have a proper go in the last 10 to 15 minutes?
The reason why we "lost intensity" was purely down to EtH's poor subs. We lost all control with his weird choice of putting Rashford in a position he is fecking shit in, subbing our best midfielder whilst keeping our worst player of the day, our captain fantastic, on for the full 90

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Second half wasn't completely crap, agreed after around 65 mins we stopped in our intensity and we were ponderous though. Which clubs this season maintain it for the full 90?

Difficult question to answer since most teams who play with similar intensity tend to score.

 

[Godfather]

He was blasted for doing this last season and losing games because of absolute naievity going forward. He's not in a Fergie position to do this. He needs to keep it tight and control games, create as much as he can.

The zirkzee sub I agree was poor. But the Hojlund and Ugarte introductions were definitely right and we had around 20 mins to go at thar point.

He was blasted for a totally different reason. His naivity concerned his general tactics not trying to go for it in the last minutes of a game. He has never done that. He's always been cowardly when it comes to that.

It's mind blowing to me some still defend EtH at this point.

 

[NLunited]

We did more than enough to win this game, but the subs disappointed.

Rashford should contribute when he comes on, yet offered nothing.

Højlund looked not matchfit which is not surprising.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but it would have been nice to have McT on the bench for this game.

We could have brought Maguire on as pinchhitter, why didn’t we?

 

[Borys]

Exactly spot on. But my question then is why is that a huge criticism on our manager. Unless he's expected to pick up the ball and punt it in the back of the net himself.

If was a good game by all accounts from a performance standpoint. And whilst it was a fizzled away ending, he's at least not showing constant naivety going gung ho and potentially throwing all 3 points in the process.

If we have more games like yesterday from a performance angle I think we won't have a problem for top 4. Finishing is down to quality and it should come. He has his own support from RvN too, and the latter deserves some credit in his offensive automation training drills (outside of finishing of course), as we are knitting the ball together a lot better in the final third.

How much do you think it's down to RVN and how much actually because of some players that seem to have transformational impact? Asking because once Hojlund and Rashford came on yesterday we looked clueless like last season, and the opposition started countering us through midfield (what wasn't the problem first half even with Eriksen /Mainoo midfield).

 

[VP89]

Once a team is a few goals up do they need to maintain the intensity that got them into that position?

Of course not but compare this to say, Liverpool vs Forrest. I don't think there was much in the way of intensity on balance. Liverpool did throw more at it toward the end but even after going down let alone drawing they were recycling centrally and just going wide with some mindless balls.

So it's too much of an ask to expect a football team assembled by hundreds of millions to try and have a proper go in the last 10 to 15 minutes?
The reason why we "lost intensity" was purely down to EtH's poor subs. We lost all control with his weird choice of putting Rashford in a position he is fecking shit in, subbing our best midfielder whilst keeping our worst player of the day, our captain fantastic, on for the full 90

I think the zirkzee sub lost us control for sure. But I don't think the subs after that were remotely weird. Eriksen doesn't have the legs for a 90 and we needed a target man. Ugarte and Hojlund were designed to clearly get our bite back, and they were absolutely fine subs that didn't work out.

I dont think there's a problem with trying to go for it more in the final 10 and yes the game fizzled but it's a weird gripe to hang on to considering how the first 65-70 mins went from a dominance and chance created perspective.

 

[VP89]

How much do you think it's down to RVN and how much actually because of some players that seem to have transformational impact? Asking because once Hojlund and Rashford came on yesterday we looked clueless like last season, and the opposition started countering us through midfield (what wasn't the problem first half even with Eriksen /Mainoo midfield).

It appears in pre season (so I'm assuming that carries over, why else wouldn't it) that RvN took over the offensive part of our training. Melissa Reddy said this when she spent time watching our drills and had days with the team. That's why I'm crediting RvN for the way we are interchanging moreso. Maybe it's a team effort but he surely has good influence.

 

[Godfather]

I dont think there's a problem with trying to go for it more in the final 10 and yes the game fizzled but it's a weird gripe to hang on to considering how the first 65-70 mins went from a dominance and chance created perspective.

How is it weird when we failed to win the game and looked like we couldn't be arsed to even try in the last 20.

Honestly if people get impressed because we managed to look decent for 60 minutes against a struggling Palace team that lost its best players in the summer and failed to win a game in the PL this season then I have lost hope for this club as it seems all ambition is gone.

 

[soapythecat]

Next 2 PL games should see him gone. Don’t see us picking up more than 1 or 2 points. Our distance from top 4 will be sizeable and not acceptable. Club needs to act and move him on - 3rd season of the same bottle job tactics.

 

[VP89]

How is it weird when we failed to win the game and looked like we couldn't be arsed to even try in the last 20.

Honestly if people get impressed because we managed to look decent for 60 minutes against a struggling Palace team that lost its best players in the summer and failed to win a game in the PL this season then I have lost hope for this club as it seems all ambition is gone.

I don't think we couldn't be arsed to try. Come on mate there's no need to exaggerate

 

[Sarni]

Arsenal this season was not harder than Liverpool. They've started slow in performances and have skimmed teams, playing Spurs without two absolutely vital players to their system. Leicester and Everton are atrocious, Brentford are just a bottom half side same as before, this time missing both Wissa and Toney from last season when they played Spurs.

Liverpool are arguably the 2nd best performing side in the league from the eye test and sheer chances created, playing us with a full squad. Brighton and Fulham are head and shoulders better than Brentford and Everton. Whilst our fixture vs Southampton was essentially the same as their Leicester game.

But you can say exactly the same about Southampton and Palace (both horrible this season and have the same number of points combined as Everton and Leicester) and Fulham (also a bottom half team, lost their best midfielder/player over Summer too, really not much better than Brentford who are just 2 points behind them having played City and Liverpool away).

It’s virtually the same calendar, you have just used mismatches to prove a point in your original argument (and still do that by comparing Brighton away to Everton at home instead of Newcastle away because then it doesn’t look convincing at all).

I could maybe agree one is slightly tougher than the other but definitely not that there’s a massive gap between two like you are trying to prove saying we have somehow had a challenging start while they’ve had it super easy.

When fixtures were released everyone seemed to have been in agreement that ours are really favorable early on, it’s only after we have failed to convert it into actual points that views like yours have started to surface with some fans pretending we have had a super tricky, challenging start. It’s strange.

 

[NLunited]

It appears in pre season (so I'm assuming that carries over, why else wouldn't it) that RvN took over the offensive part of our training. Melissa Reddy said this when she spent time watching our drills and had days with the team. That's why I'm crediting RvN for the way we are interchanging moreso. Maybe it's a team effort but he surely has good influence.

That would make sense. The coaching staff is there to do drills with players among other things. RvN will spend more time with our attackers.

The dominant football we saw yesterday was Ten Hag ball, you can credit RvN once our attackers start putting chances away.

 

[GoodTimes]

He’s done an outstanding job at lowering standards at this club, I’ll give him that.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's proven himself a good cup manager, winning a cup in each season is proof of that no matter what anyone says to try and undermine that.

But in terms of the League he's just not up to it, and our League form since the start of last season is diabolical.

 

[AndySmith1990]

He's proven himself a good cup manager, winning a cup in each season is proof of that no matter what anyone says to try and undermine that.

But in terms of the League he's just not up to it, and our League form since the start of last season is diabolical.

He's a lucky cup manager. Actually he's lucky in general. We should've finished well below 8th, and we were the length of a mosquitos knob away from being knocked out by Coventry.

 

[Godfather]

I don't think we couldn't be arsed to try. Come on mate there's no need to exaggerate

It sure looked that way. Lumping the ball forward like headless chickens, losing all patience. It's a huge mentality problem. I wonder who is responsible for that

 

[VP89]

But you can say exactly the same about Southampton and Palace (both horrible this season and have the same number of points combined as Everton and Leicester) and Fulham (also a bottom half team, lost their best midfielder/player over Summer too, really not much better than Brentford who are just 2 points behind them having played City and Liverpool away).

It’s virtually the same calendar, you have just used mismatches to prove a point in your original argument (and still do that by comparing Brighton away to Everton at home instead of Newcastle away because then it doesn’t look convincing at all).

This is another reason why my broader point to the poster was that looking at the PL table is bollocks. Palace are obviously not a harder opponent than Everton - they've had a troublesome start but are a stubborn side and chronic game raisers in performances - having got a point at Stamford Bridge the game before Leicester. Theyve also strengthened in areas whilst losing certain players (I think Anderson hurt them more, and they are adapting to it).

My point is, fixtures vs Fulham (H), Brighton (A), Liverpool (H) and Palace (A) is a harder set than Leicester (H), Everton (A), a weakened Arsenal side (H), and Brentford (A).

And we sit on the same points. We cannot say Spurs are fecking better than us. Their performances leave a lot more to be desired and theve had the same points. They might take off and we might implode, or the vice versa, its far too early to claim shit right now from games where the sample size of tested teams is too small.

 

[Sarni]

This is another reason why my broader point to the poster was that looking at the PL table is bollocks. Palace are obviously not a harder opponent than Everton - they've had a troublesome start but are a stubborn side and chronic game raisers in performances - having got a point at Stamford Bridge the game before Leicester. Theyve also strengthened in areas whilst losing certain players (I think Anderson hurt them more, and they are adapting to it).

My point is, fixtures vs Fulham (H), Brighton (A), Liverpool (H) and Palace (A) is a harder set than Leicester (H), Everton (A), a weakened Arsenal side (H), and Brentford (A).

And we sit on the same points. We cannot say Spurs are fecking better than us. Their performances leave a lot more to be desired and theve had the same points. They might take off and we might implode, or the vice versa, its far too early to claim shit right now from games where the sample size of tested teams is too small.

We are five games into season, of course table is pointless. Not much else needs to be said on this, you don’t draw any conclusions from the standings until at least week 8-9.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's a lucky cup manager. Actually he's lucky in general. We should've finished well below 8th, and we were the length of a mosquitos knob away from being knocked out by Coventry.

He's still won two cups, everyone needs luck to win a cup.

There's enough to legitimately criticise ETH for without going to that. His league record is enough to justify that he's not good enough.

 

[VP89]

It sure looked that way. Lumping the ball forward like headless chickens, losing all patience. It's a huge mentality problem. I wonder who is responsible for that

"Lumping the ball forward like headless chickens". I dont think that was happening chronically, but yeah Rashford did this in conjunction to Bruno likely to get Hojlund in and around.

Weirdly I wanted us to just throw it in the mixer a lot more in the final 10 - when Licha and De Ligt were passing it around the back, just to disrupt Palace's organization. If anything we were too patient in the final 15, trying to take our time to carefully unlock the team. We didnt move the ball quickly like we did in the first 65-70 mins.

 

[VP89]

We are five games into season, of course table is pointless. Not much else needs to be said on this, you don’t draw any conclusions from the standings until at least week 8-9.

This is the exact point I made to @Zumbi

 

[Godfather]

"Lumping the ball forward like headless chickens". I dont think that was happening chronically, but yeah Rashford did this in conjunction to Bruno likely to get Hojlund in and around.

Weirdly I wanted us to just throw it in the mixer a lot more in the final 10 - when Licha and De Ligt were passing it around the back, just to disrupt Palace's organization. If anything we were too patient in the final 15, trying to take our time to carefully unlock the team. We didnt move the ball quickly like we did in the first 65-70 mins.

It was weird all around and it stems from a lack of self believe at least that's what it looked like. And it's sad as this team is capable of good football but we need a manager that brings the best out of them

 

[Salford_Red83]

Every day day I read this thread, and every day I'm still astounded at the lengths people go to to defend ETH.

The people that wanted him to stay after the FA Cup win - your hero now has us in 11th and having us look like some mid/lower table also rans.

This is his level and he is suddenly not going to improve after being here for 3 years. He's had his chance, he needs to go.

 

[DJ_21]

Don’t think he can be blamed for us not winning against palace. We dominated most parts of the game. We missed some big chances aswell. Cant remember palace causing us problems apart from the last half an hour of the game.

 

[VP89]

It was weird all around and it stems from a lack of self believe at least that's what it looked like. And it's sad as this team is capable of good football but we need a manager that brings the best out of them

Disagree completely, we had incredible self belief to put them away for the majority of the game. Teams that are starting off to try and dominate teams rarely ever do it for the full 90, and they tend to have frustrating games. If the underlying data wasn't so overwhemingly for us I'd agree with your sentiment

 

[Musclehead]

So it's too much of an ask to expect a football team assembled by hundreds of millions to try and have a proper go in the last 10 to 15 minutes?
The reason why we "lost intensity" was purely down to EtH's poor subs. We lost all control with his weird choice of putting Rashford in a position he is fecking shit in, subbing our best midfielder whilst keeping our worst player of the day, our captain fantastic, on for the full 90

Exactly, you either win the game or you fail! Even better, watch where Dalot plays. He slips from the outside into the middle. Every time Martinez has the ball he is limited to where he can put it. This is what Slot said he was playing and shaping to exploit. In fact it moves into 3 in the backfield. Palace were clogging the middle of the field and needed to move around that on the outside, but ETH didn't change it up. The guy is not fit for this team. Then I didn't see who missed the shot after Garnacho hit the bar, but knew it was our illustrious leader. Great players do not miss those chances, they wait for them. It was a lazy shot, he had time and misread it. These plays separate winning from losing. I guarantee that Bruno will not hit 50 to 60 of those now in training this week, it would mean added work load. Success is when preparation and execution meet opportunity.

 

[Salford_Red83]

He's proven himself a good cup manager, winning a cup in each season is proof of that no matter what anyone says to try and undermine that.

But in terms of the League he's just not up to it, and our League form since the start of last season is diabolical.

Since the league cup win our league form has been diabolical

 

[Suv666]

Man we use to play in CL finals

Now some fans are happy with a 11th position and a draw against Crystal Palace for fecks sake.

This club is doomed. I don’t see a way back when fans have accepted mediocrity.

 

[Sarni]

This is the exact point I made to @Zumbi

Fair enough, just felt there was no need to delve into fixtures and try to prove one was much tougher than the other.

Spurs have been underwhelming as I said. For all the praise Ange got last year, you’d expect a manager in his second season to start much better and have the team play more coherent football, especially at the back. They are basically where they were last year ie look decent going forward against teams weaker than them (not not v Arsenal) and vulnerable at the back. The bar to clear for them this season will also be higher than for us, ie for ETH to finish 5th / 6th will be a relative success while Ange absolutely has to have them in CL spots or else he’s gone.

 

[Sarni]

Man we use to play in CL finals

Now some fans are happy with a 11th position and a draw against Crystal Palace for fecks sake.

This club is doomed. I don’t see a way back when fans have accepted mediocrity.

I don’t think anyone is genuinely happy with that, however recognizing where we are and how low the expectations are, a draw at Palace is a fairly respectable result. We are closer to Brighton / Fulham than we are to Arsenal / Liverpool in terms of expectations I think.

 

[Leftback99]

Man we used to play in CL finals

Now some fans are happy with a 11th position and a draw against Crystal Palace for fecks sake.

This club is doomed. I don’t see a way back when fans have accepted mediocrity.

It's bizarre. Some have entrenched themselves so deep in defending everything Ten Hag that they've completely lost sight of any kind of standards.