Fair enough but overall we were the better team and should have won but didn't.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
Ten Hag is also statistically one of our worst modern performing PL managers. We had back to back Top 4s with Ole before turning to shit, we also had decent consistency with Jose. We just never got the consistency to be a top title challenging team.
I don't think the problem at hand takes years to fix. Just look at Aston Villa, they were relegation candidates under Gerrard and a new Manager with purpose and a clear identity immediately turned them round to a top 4 team. The same players, the same club structure.
I can see your perspective don't get me wrong. I just don't buy the argument that it takes 4/5 years. If by year 3 nothings changed and results are still as bad then clearly a new direction is required.
We still should have standards and those standards are at rock bottom right now. Surely by year three after 600 odd million spent the team should have a direction and standards no? 40% win rate in the last 20 PL games is rock bottom standards no?
I'm curious, would you wait till December before analysing Ten Hag or would you allow him the full season? What was your hope for this season? Top 4? Or do you think that's unachievable?
It was more than 45 minutes that we were dominant for. And the game as a whole massively favoured us on chances.
Thats fair but overall we were the better team and should have easily won. Its a frustrating result
But Ten Hag, Mourinho, and Van Gaal all won trophies under the previous regime? Some also managed to finish second in the league, something Arteta is lauded for on here.
This I agree with. It's damn frustrating.
Agreed
They had more shots on target than us in the 2nd half if you want to paint the 2nd half as dominant where we were playing back and over the full half line for the last 10 mins that’s your prerogative.
I'm not painting the second half as dominant. I'm saying we didn't only dominate for 45 minutes. They had better structure and some good chances created (2 very good ones) after around 60 minutes.
My point being - we didn't just dominate for 45 minutes and in totality we created far more than they did.
Whoever successfully ends up in the top four, they will end up with a large enough points total to have got there. And there are low enough points totals accumulated in the first ten games to effectively rule a team out of attaining that high a points total.
No one would ever rule out a ten game period at any other time in the year as being so inconsequential, but that’s not because the points are somehow worth less earlier in the year. It’s just arbitrary human nature to value them more as the season progresses towards its end point. It is absolutely possible for a team to do badly enough in the first ten games for a top four finish to be effectively unattainable. And to be clear I am not saying specifically that Utd have done that in recent seasons, but teams certainly have.
One half creating a couple of chances without scoring is enough for people to say we 'dominated' the game now.
I remember what it looked like when we actually did dominate games.
I remember what it looked like when we actually did dominate games.
“Today, we also probably lose two points because of the first half, but the thing is that we don’t lose this game in the end.”
I hate having a manager who thinks this way. Shows in the play too, we always play not to lose towards the end. A Manchester United manager shouldn’t have this negative mentality
I hate having a manager who thinks this way. Shows in the play too, we always play not to lose towards the end. A Manchester United manager shouldn’t have this negative mentality
I must say he’s among the worst I’ve ever seen at in-game management. So often makes subs and tactical tweaks that completely kill the momentum and change the course of the game for the worse.
We'll see how things develop, but the football is looking better in pretty much every game this season at least, even the ones we've lost. More like it was when we went on a good run in his first season, and the players recruited in the summer are playing a big part in that.
Newcastle played Spurs at home.
Newcastle are unbeaten in their last eight home league matches, winning six. We have only won two of our last eight away league matches, with three losses and three draws. You can call them shite all you like, but pretending like a match at St James Park isn’t a tough match for the likes of us or Spurs is nonsense.
You could more easily argue that we’re not a very tough opponent under Ten Hag.
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Why are you considering games from last season to try and crowbar your point in? Have you watched Newcastle this season? They're diabolical this season and scraping games through wild goals.
Brighton and Fulham are both better than them. They got well beaten by Fulham today in fact. We've played both of them plus Liverpool.
As I said, Spurs have not performed better than us and are ahead of us in no small part due to their easier fixtures - even if you want to park Newcastle, 3 of their 5 has been Leicester, Everton and Brentford for fecksake
At 40th minute mark we had 10 shots with 4 on taget, hitting the bar twice with Palace having 0 shots overall.
Kinda dominant innit
I am not sure where you get your statistics but I dont believe ten Hag is statistically one of our worst performing managers in the PL era.
Jose has the best statistics among Utd managers since Fergie:
Win Percentage: 58.3%
League Positions: 6th, 2nd
Trophies: 2 (Europa League, League Cup)
ten Hag:
Win Percentage: 56.7%
League Positions: 3rd, 8th
Trophies: 2 (League Cup, FA Cup)
van Gaal:
Win Percentage: 52.4%
League Positions: 4th, 5th
Trophies: 1 (FA Cup)
Ole:
Win Percentage: 54.2%
League Positions: 6th, 3rd, 2nd
Trophies: 0
Moyes:
Win Percentage: 52.9%
League Position: 7th
Trophies: 0
I would say I will give him until December to assess his performance. I am not just looking at the results but also at the overall performance and progress. Yes, I expect a top 4 finish this season or 5th place and a Europa League win.
If he can get us playing like we did in the 1st half today we'll probably do quite well, that's the most in control of a game I've seen from us for ages to be fair (excluding the likes of Barnsley).
The issue is, we couldn't keep it up for a full game, and the first 45 minutes is an anomaly at this point. The 2nd half is closer to our usual level.
The issue is, we couldn't keep it up for a full game, and the first 45 minutes is an anomaly at this point. The 2nd half is closer to our usual level.
I think the guy is shite, but you have to be fair and say we didn't play that badly today just couldn't find the finish. Although, his substitutions were trash and we actually played worse after them.
Why are you considering games from last season to try and crowbar your point in? Have you watched Newcastle this season? They're diabolical this season and scraping games through wild goals.
Brighton and Fulham are both better than them. They got well beaten by Fulham today in fact. We've played both of them plus Liverpool.
As I said, Spurs have not performed better than us and are ahead of us in no small part due to their easier fixtures - even if you want to park Newcastle, 3 of their 5 has been Leicester, Everton and Brentford for fecksake
Wait a minute. Weren’t you trying to argue that results in the first few games in the season don’t count for much? But now all of a sudden they’re the only thing that matters because it suits your narrative? True to form.
Objectively speaking, St James Park is a tough place to go for the likes of us and Spurs.
Nonetheless, all of this remains a pointless deflection from the point I originally made - that based on our results so far this season, an expectation that we will beat Spurs does not seem well founded. I’m still not sure if you even disagree with that point given how keen you always are to obfuscate and deflect and excuse.
What's his away record now against anyone other than newly promoted/ eventually relegated sides?
Really bad.
I do find it strange that many of his biggest critics have argued that we have no style of play and that the style is more important than the results. Today showed a huge progression in that style of play and we actually looked like a top side. Yes the result is frustrating but this shifting of the goal posts is ridiculous.
After the Brighton game, I mentioned a troubling trend, and unfortunately, it continues. We dominate games, create quality chances, yet fail to convert them. At least this time, there weren’t any individual mistakes leading to goals against us, but the bigger issue persists: we’re dropping points because of our inability to finish.
As mentioned before, the coaching staff has a massive task ahead to address this, and quickly. Erik ten Hag is already on borrowed time, and he and his coaching team need to turn things around soon.
I’ve said all along that this upcoming run of fixtures against Crystal Palace, Spurs, and Villa would reveal whether we’ve made real progress. He’s already stumbled in the first one, despite us completely dominating the opposition. The pressure is now on to win the next two against Spurs and Villa. Do that, and suddenly, we’re back in contention for a top-four finish again. But that needs to turn in a real run of results for it to be a real progress.
Winning them both but then losing the next game against Brentford wouldn't really be a progress.
Still not scoring and not winning away matches. This won't change
It means he set up the team very well to start with, but that the changes he made didn't work out. It certainly isn't worth the hysterical negative reaction on here.
We played one decent half against Crystal Palace and looked utter garbage from the 60th minute Mark on. We hardly looked like prime Barcelona out there and are currently sitting on 11th place in the league after spending record sums.
I actually can't believe the naivity and blind faith of some. It's getting worse every year too.
We have an almost fully fit squad too so there is absolutely no reason to not win games whilst also looking the part.
Looks to me like we're getting better.
Solid point against 16th place & winless Crystal Palace.
Not sure how anyone could be expecting more.
Not sure how anyone could be expecting more.
Because we looked the better team for 60 minutes against a struggling Crystal Palace and a squad that is worth double theirs? That's cute but certainly not enough to even give me a glimpse of hope things will get better under this manager.
Everybody was expecting more. We should have fecking won.
Is that good enough for you though? To be slightly better than the utter disaster of last season?
We're 5 games in and we have 7 points. It's so mid table.
Give the hyperbole a rest. The vast majority of posters aren’t being hysterical. They’re simply criticizing Ten Hag’s in game management and there is justification for them doing so. It’s been a recurring criticism of his tenure. Only ending up with one point given how the first half went is disappointing.
Won the xG game too
If we can replicate that first half performance in the next few games, I'll like him to stay.
Pretty cheeky response but we definitely did look fantastic in that first half. Nevertheless, the fact that we didn’t score at least three or four and that we couldn’t capitalise on that dominance is absolutely unacceptable but completely expected.
What are you on about? I said there's no value in judging league tables after 5 games because of the randomised fixture list not being a good enough sample size of actual competence.
And I used the fact that Spurs played 2 relegation fodders and a bottom half of the table team compared to us facing better outfits in Fulham, Brighton and Palace to exemplify that. It's really not rocket science, going by league positions 5 games in just isn't a smart way to make a point.
Despite slightly improved performances this season, our results have actually gotten worse. We’re in a worse league position and at the current rate, are on course for a lower points total than last season. Maybe that changes, maybe not. Who knows with this manager.