It's not ours anyway. We've conceded five goals in three games. Even if our defense becomes somewhat solid under this manager, we've a keeper that the opposition will always feel they've a chance having a pop at and he'll fumble.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
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It's not ours anyway. We've conceded five goals in three games. Even if our defense becomes somewhat solid under this manager, we've a keeper that the opposition will always feel they've a chance having a pop at and he'll fumble.
I have recently decided that I am now more sack than back. [Posts that feel sexual but aren't]
Despite me thinking there has been a general improvement in our overall play and organisation this season, those things weren't hard to improve on as lots of fans and pundits have mentioned these things in the past. It felt insane that they weren't addressed more immediately last season when we were far more open and players ran through our non-existent midfield. Despite what some people want to believe, this isn't happening much now, but we are still guilty of incredibly poor individual errors that lead to goals. Or, in the oppositions final third, we are diagnosed with chronically making the wrong decision after opening a team up or winning possession back high.
Ten Hag has had to deal with as many curveballs as any manager in history to be fair, but he's got to do it. One way to do it is actually show consistency and a plan which players can buy into, he hasn't done this anywhere near enough, to the extent that I think he is probably not capable of doing it in a top league. He is, most likely, a cup manager. He has delivered two trophies but doesn't seem capable of consistent performances in a tough league season. Hopefully, if he does stay a while, he proves me and others wrong, but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure who the replacement could be, but as it stands I think Ten Hag needs to show a huge change over the next set of fixtures:
Southampton Away
Barnsley Home (EFLC)
Crystal Palace Away
FC Twente Home (UEL)
Tottenham Home
Porto Away (UEL)
Aston Villa Away
That's seven games until the next international break, which might be a point of no return if we lose 2-3 of these games. He needs to get his first choice XI (or close to it) fit and settled. He needs to deliver results and some good performances in those first four games which should realistically all be wins no matter what state we are in. Then, to really show if we are going anywhere, he has the opportunity to play against teams that many would say are currently better than us or at least have been coached into a way of playing. I think at the moment, I can just accept that Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool are better than us and will be this year, maybe next. But the minimum goal has to be to get 4th place and if we're going to do that, we have to be better than the likes of Spurs and Villa. If he can't show that in the next month, then honestly he just isn't the guy. Change it.
Despite me thinking there has been a general improvement in our overall play and organisation this season, those things weren't hard to improve on as lots of fans and pundits have mentioned these things in the past. It felt insane that they weren't addressed more immediately last season when we were far more open and players ran through our non-existent midfield. Despite what some people want to believe, this isn't happening much now, but we are still guilty of incredibly poor individual errors that lead to goals. Or, in the oppositions final third, we are diagnosed with chronically making the wrong decision after opening a team up or winning possession back high.
Ten Hag has had to deal with as many curveballs as any manager in history to be fair, but he's got to do it. One way to do it is actually show consistency and a plan which players can buy into, he hasn't done this anywhere near enough, to the extent that I think he is probably not capable of doing it in a top league. He is, most likely, a cup manager. He has delivered two trophies but doesn't seem capable of consistent performances in a tough league season. Hopefully, if he does stay a while, he proves me and others wrong, but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure who the replacement could be, but as it stands I think Ten Hag needs to show a huge change over the next set of fixtures:
Southampton Away
Barnsley Home (EFLC)
Crystal Palace Away
FC Twente Home (UEL)
Tottenham Home
Porto Away (UEL)
Aston Villa Away
That's seven games until the next international break, which might be a point of no return if we lose 2-3 of these games. He needs to get his first choice XI (or close to it) fit and settled. He needs to deliver results and some good performances in those first four games which should realistically all be wins no matter what state we are in. Then, to really show if we are going anywhere, he has the opportunity to play against teams that many would say are currently better than us or at least have been coached into a way of playing. I think at the moment, I can just accept that Man City, Arsenal, and Liverpool are better than us and will be this year, maybe next. But the minimum goal has to be to get 4th place and if we're going to do that, we have to be better than the likes of Spurs and Villa. If he can't show that in the next month, then honestly he just isn't the guy. Change it.
Players who have got worse under ETH:
Antony
Casemiro
Onana
Bruno
Sancho
Sabitzer (very underwhelming after arriving with a decent reputation. Improved since leaving.)
Amrabat (same as above)
Ronaldo
Wan Bissaka
De Gea
Martial
Varane
Players who have played as poorly under ETH than they ever have:
Probably everybody bar the new signings. But it's hard to say if many are worse as they played elsewhere, having only recently been signed by ETH.
Players who are maybe about the same (or better):
Maguire (same as previously)
Lindelof (same as previously)
Shaw (same as previously, given he's always been a bit inconsistent)
Dalot (probably the only one I can say has had his best season under ETH)
*I'm not giving him and youngsters as those involved in the first team are all clearly very talented and were only ever going to get better anyway. But I do have issues, as mentioned previously, with how I believe he is "developing" said players.
Antony
Casemiro
Onana
Bruno
Sancho
Sabitzer (very underwhelming after arriving with a decent reputation. Improved since leaving.)
Amrabat (same as above)
Ronaldo
Wan Bissaka
De Gea
Martial
Varane
Players who have played as poorly under ETH than they ever have:
Probably everybody bar the new signings. But it's hard to say if many are worse as they played elsewhere, having only recently been signed by ETH.
Players who are maybe about the same (or better):
Maguire (same as previously)
Lindelof (same as previously)
Shaw (same as previously, given he's always been a bit inconsistent)
Dalot (probably the only one I can say has had his best season under ETH)
*I'm not giving him and youngsters as those involved in the first team are all clearly very talented and were only ever going to get better anyway. But I do have issues, as mentioned previously, with how I believe he is "developing" said players.
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I don't think we will see much of that, and anyone bringing that sort of thing up can't be taken seriously.
If we struggle after the international break, about the only reason to suggest keeping him is the lack of obvious replacements, but at that point, we really should be getting rid and solving the problem of his replacement after.
The Brighton loss was worrying as we could have been 3-0 down before the goal Amad scores and then we make a few chances. Milner has a shot cleared off the line and Welbeck hits the bar. You are looking at that showing it could have been another game we were dead and buried in. It then becomes a basketball game thanks to our goal and we have more of a chance, but so does the other team. We still concede far too many and we are relying on a new player coming in. That alone isn't going to rectify tactics we continually play that allows the opposition so much free reign to have a go at us and makes numerous chances.
United have starters for Argentina, Netherlands, England, and Portugal in their defense, all very good NTs. I think that's pretty good, definitely above decent.
I'm not considering injuries here. United will presumably have a left back available at some point this season.
And I'm the one being labelled as deluded when this guy claims we don't have a comfortably better defense than Newcastle
Pope is shit with his feet and can't pass either. Btec De Gea. No competent manager would have him as a long-term option in their squad, and 0 out of the 20 PL managers would start him over Onana.
Fabian Schar and Dan Burn are mainstays of Newcastle's defense. Neither of them get anywhere near United's strongest back 4.
Maguire, our 4th choice CB, would comfortably be their best CB, with only Botman being comparable to him. He's light years ahead of the likes of Burn, Schar, Kelly, and Lascelles.
They have two decent right-backs, but Trippier is 34 now and Livramento has only had a single season where he was a key member of his team, and that was back at Southampton 3 seasons ago. He has a lot of potential, but Dalot and Mazraoui are definitely more established options as of now.
Hall at left-back is decent, however nowhere near Shaw's level.
No one is ever going to take you seriously with opinions like these.
What has their international status got to do with anything? That's just a measure of the other options available for those countries, and has bugger all to do with United.
As I said, I think our defense is our strongest position, and even now, a back line of Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez and Dalot is certainly among the better defenses in the division, and should be improved once Shaw is back (whenever that may be). I also think it's probably fair to rank it as better than the defenses of Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle, I just don't think the gap is that stark, and particularly when we don't have a fit left-back, and remain a centre-back injury away from Maguire coming back into the fold.
I said all of Villa, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle. We can have a defense that's comfortably better than three of them, but by virtue of not being comfortably better than the remainder, we can't claim to "comfortably" have the fourth best defense in the league.
I'm also fairly sure you initially argued our squad was "comfortably" the fourth best overall. I just highlighted the defense as our strongest position, so you've focused in on that, despite me happily accepting that we may well have the best defense of that group of teams.
Among other things, you've claimed Rashford "will" return to form and that Hojlund could be a 30 goal a season striker. You have the same view of our squad as I'd expect a 7-year-old to have, or indeed the sort of view RAWK had of the Liverpool squad for the fifteen or so years before Klopp came in.
You will probably rate the next manager as the second coming of Ferguson if you really believe Barnes, Gordon, and Bailey are better footballers than what we currently have up front.
Could have put money on it happening with the fact there was no league game for 13 days
How do we all think Ten Hag is doing as Utd manager?
You have a very short attention spam, it's clear based on every post I remember reading from you. It's whoever is currently in form or playing for a good team that's better than xyz, the typical fickleness of most football fans.
10/10
I don't particularly rate Barnes, but Gordon and Bailey have both proven more than all of Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Amad.
Do you just think every player that doesn't play for United is shit or something? This is genuinely like listening to a child talk about football.
To those who cling to the “just 3 games” defense the problem is that we continue to see the same kinds of performances as last season.
Maybe we hit rock bottom against Liverpool and that the “game model” ETH has been trying to put into place finally sorings to life against Southampton, but if it doesn’t what new argument does the “just 3 games” crowd come up with then?
Maybe we hit rock bottom against Liverpool and that the “game model” ETH has been trying to put into place finally sorings to life against Southampton, but if it doesn’t what new argument does the “just 3 games” crowd come up with then?
'He's only had one window'.
Still a nonsense excuse, even if I think there's a very real possibility that most (if not all) of the signings he's had before INEOS end up being write offs.
I'd honestly just ignore those sorts of posts if we come back from the international break looking as ineffective as we entered it. It's clear that he's fast running out of time to turn it around.
No, I don't. I've gotten a lot of stick on here and have even been accused of being a "closet Scouser" and an Arsenal fan before, just because I praised some of their players.
I also know there are quality players across every team in the league, especially the top 6. I just hate it when our own players get underestimated and rival players get overestimated. And my impression is that the general consensus couldn't be further from the truth, very often.
I don't even think Villa, Spurs, Chelsea or Newcastle are that strong. It's not like I think any are potential title contenders. I just think we're of a similar level, and there's really not much in our squad that sets us apart from them.
I also don't think the answer to others potentially underestimating our players is to respond with outlandish claims about Hojlund's ability to bag 30 a season (when his current best return is 10), making confident assertions about how Rashford "will" establish himself as one of the top attackers in the league, despite being utterly garbage for an entire year, and claiming that two wide players that were delivering around 20 goals and assists last season are blatantly worse than a host of young players yet to really make a mark in the league.
Your posting style is weird. Not sure if you’re insinuating my posts to be in any shape or form pro Ten Haag or absolving him of responsibility. I assure you that’s wide of the mark.
Anthony Gordon is miles better than any of the wide forwards we have.
A simple eye test and a look at statistics will show you Barnes, Bailey and Gordon are better than almost all of our attacking options.
It's certainly a unique approach.
Claims to be frustrated at people underrating our players while overrating our opposition. Proceeds to vastly overrate our players and essentially claim that anyone that doesn't play for us is utter shit.
I'm an its just 3 games person and I'll explain why.
You say we continue to see the same kinds of performances as last season. What I've seen this season is:
- a very good performance vs City
- a much better performance vs Fulham when compared to last season and some very good signs during the game including the 30-40 mins where we had them penned in which I'm not sure if we even managed to do that vs a team last season. A few concerning counter attacks (not to the level of last season) and the team still having the ability to just lose focus/shape like they did in the second half but a small improvement and positive start.
- A good first half v Brighton again showing promising signs with a very good press (probably the best I've seen a Brighton team be pressed outside of City/Pool), some nice moves, what I think Ten Hag is looking for, and yet through out the match consistent errors and poor decisions from the players. The team also struggled to control the match but again its a very good Brighton team away, 2nd game of the season with some positive signs. Fair enough we lost.
- The pool match is the one concerning match for me where we struggled to create chances and gave up very silly goals. That was like a match from last season and the players just seemed devoid of confidence by the end. Ten Hag takes responsibility for that, but like the majority of our games in the champions league last season if I was in that changing room I'd be staring daggers at Casemiro as I would have done Onana...
So all in all I've seen glimpses of better performances, glimpses of what I think Ten Hag wants to see e.g. the pressing has been very good in general, penning a team in as we did vs Fulham and in general we are very good at playing out from the back. What remains to be seen is whether Ten Hag a) can knit those positives together b) whether he can do so before the players lose anymore confidence. If he can then I can see some of the issues like the counter attacks etc being reduced, although I don't think it will ever go completely as it comes with the territory e.g. I'm pretty sure both Arsenal and Pool had more counter attacks vs them in their first games yet we got criticism for the few against Fulham
For me I think Ten Hag has shown that in big games with his tactics he can just as much beat a big team e.g. City, Pool, Newcastle, as get smashed by them. which was something for example we couldn't say about Ole who consistenly faltered at semis. What I'm not sure about is whether with these tactics that are pretty ambitious/risky that he can win enough games during a season.
I also think we have done a very good job in recruitment and the squad is in better shape, despite that I still can see from the squad how far away we are from a City or Real Madrid. Over the next month/couple of months we will see whether Ten Hag can knit those positive elements together and get us going. If he doesn't he will be sacked. I don't think any fan is going "give Ten Hag 4 more years". A lot of us just aren't throwing our toys out the pram after 3 games and begging for him to be replaced by an interim. If anything the fans should be hoping he pulls it off in the next couple months. But if he doesn't cest la vie, he gets fired and we move on.
Solskjaer didn't win a trophy, but his record in the big games was still fairly solid, prior to this final season.
Record against City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs (across all competitions):
13 wins, 10 draws, 10 losses.
For comparison, Liverpool won a league title and had another season where they finished second with 97 points during that period, and this is their record against the same teams (with us obviously replacing them):
17 wins, 9 draws, 7 losses.
It's not massively better, and Spurs rolled over for them in all six of their meetings in that period.
Once Pep goes, he's comfortably the best manager in the league.Are you aware after Man City, Erik's won the next most trophies?
He is in a tough spot now, and the pressure will intensify with every bad result, he has to make a significant change in the tactics or he is out on his arse
And not one of those wins came in a significant game e.g. semi, final, top 4 shoot out etc. The Fa Cup final vs City is probably our best result post Fergie.
Heh, the league is just an exercise to stay fit for cup matches.
That's not what I was insinuating at all. I meant that our team is heavily underperforming, and if ten Hag keeps messing up things, he will be gone. Then, the next manager will inevitably look like some sort of genius just for getting these players perform to their true level once again.
Come down abit abeg
What result post Fergie is better than beating a treble winning Manchester City team in an FA Cup final abeg? The only one that might even come close would be PSG and that didn't get us anything.
Well, no one who actually knows something about football would say Burn or Schar are anywhere near Harry Maguire. It's also crystal clear that Pope wouldn't be preferred to Onana at any club, because he's as bad with his feet as De Gea.
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I’m unsure who exactly is responsible or if it’s a shared responsibility. I believe it to be a shared responsibility as far as I’ve understood from sensible sources which is why I take some issue with a lazy narrative of the manager doing X Y Z when some of those things aren’t exclusively his to be responsible for.
I don’t think you can realistically expect a title challenge without at least another 2 years of experience for Mainoo, Højlund and Garnacho (if they remain starters) and those players making significant progress in that time.
The below is what would our current “best” XI would be at age wise by then. You’d have an experienced back line, a midfield with a decent mix of experience and energy, wingers either entering peak or just leaving it and a striker entering their peak too.
Onana (30)
Dalot (27) De Ligt (27) Martinez (28) Shaw (31)
Ugarte (25) Mainoo (21)
Garnacho (22) Bruno (32) Rashford (28)
Højlund (23)
The honest answer to who is ultimately responsible just depends on how you view responsibility. I personally think players should be held accountable for their levels, decisions and performances unless there are clear tactical decisions that are stupid.
From what I have seen of this season I would argue that we have lacked in quality in the final third with our final pass, or our pass to progress into the most dangerous areas more so than having any serious and unsolvable tactical deficiencies.
The sad reality for me is that while we have good players the only proper attacking threat that you can rely on is Bruno. Rashford should be our other guaranteed goal scorer for the money he is on but he’s not representing good value for his wage at the moment and I’m not sure it’s due to Ten Hag given he also had his best season with him.
Funny post.
This isn’t far from where I am.
For me belief is a little brittle, manifested itself against the dippers when we let them in after a good start. Was like the air going out of a balloon.
A decent run of games could really be the making of this team.
Fingers crossed for after the international brake!
There are promising signs this season, just depends whether you want to actually look for them.
Please refer to the poll result in this thread?
But they are playing as bad again this season so far
I will do no such thing.