I agree. It was reported that Tuchel started sending his agent to Boehy's recruitment meetings too iircI'm not buying this - he was more than happy to not deal with the transfer mess at Chelsea and Dortmund and stick to coaching. The problems started after Roman's management structure got dismantled and Boehly stepped in and started messing about.
I don't see an about turn from INEOS in this matter, they quite clearly believe this is the way to run a football club and we'll find a coach who can accept that.
Tuchel wont take the job though, he was offered it last summer and turned it down at the last minute because the club wouldnt give him full control of transfers
Source: trust me bro
It was reported by German newspaper BILD that he turned us down because he wouldnt have had control of transfers
I thought Bild Sport was pretty OK.Bild is the worst toilet paper, worse than even the English "newspapers". Despicable publication, truly the lowest of the low.
I seriously doubt that Norman Bates, sorry, Tuchel, would out of a sudden want control over transfers when that is the one thing he didn't want to be bothered with in previous appointments.
I understand his urgent desire for total control (all psychopaths long for that) but he might not want to get involved in that mess. Thankfully we have people for that now.
Im at the stage really where I don't care for the difficulty of the fixtures. He's out if he's not finally showing progression.Where we are by the next international break will decide things I reckon.
Whatever about the Europa games, our league games are horrible on paper (and probably will be in reality lets be honest) and can see us struggling for points in pretty much all of them.
Where we are by the next international break will decide things I reckon.
Whatever about the Europa games, our league games are horrible on paper (and probably will be in reality lets be honest) and can see us struggling for points in pretty much all of them.
You're incredibly optimistic. Based on current form, Southampton and Brentford may be the only wins here. Even then we'll make tough work of those two.Southampton, Palace, Spurs, Villa, Brentford, West Ham are the next 6 league games.
18 points for grabs, you'd be happy with 15 points. That brings us to the end of October then we have Chelsea at home first game of November.
Those 7 games are winnable.
Southampton should be a convincing win, not a lucky 1 goal win. Palace will be harder but again you'd expect 3 points. Spurs, haven't been that great against them last few games. It's my first game at OT this season so please do them with style for me! ha. Villa haven't started great either - could go any way. Brentford should be a win and West Ham is away - I think that will cause United the most trouble. Chelsea - whoever is less shite on the day.
Ten Hag and the team have a chance to get a nice number of points with these 7 games.
I think he's most backed in both senses -- backed financially and with his own targets; and then backed by fans who have been staunch in defence of him despite the performances just not warranting.
Southampton, Palace, Spurs, Villa, Brentford, West Ham are the next 6 league games.
18 points for grabs, you'd be happy with 15 points. That brings us to the end of October then we have Chelsea at home first game of November.
Those 7 games are winnable.
Southampton should be a convincing win, not a lucky 1 goal win. Palace will be harder but again you'd expect 3 points. Spurs, haven't been that great against them last few games. It's my first game at OT this season so please do them with style for me! ha. Villa haven't started great either - could go any way. Brentford should be a win and West Ham is away - I think that will cause United the most trouble. Chelsea - whoever is less shite on the day.
Ten Hag and the team have a chance to get a nice number of points with these 7 games.
Except it won't be one, it will be two and given how Ten Hag was a well researched and unanimous candidate yet still shat the bed, what guarantee does the club have that the guy we get after sacrificing another season on Ten Hag will be the right one? There is no such guarantee, even Klopp wasn't a hit in his first two campaigns but he progressively proved himself and earned the status he now has.For me the bigger issue than waiting too long, is the uncoordinated succession of managers - we've jumped around managers with wildly different footballing philosophies and so haven't been able to build any continuity, which has led to us starting a rebuild from the ground up after 3 years at most. Throwing another random manager with a different approach is simply the more of the same in my book, it'll be a waste of another 3 years as opposed to at most one more season under Ten Hag if he doesn't turn things around. That's a big part of why I'm so against the idea of sacking him now.
I think at this point the one's still defending him won't change their mind regardless of what happens. We could lose the next 3 games in a row, and I'm sure they would find another excuse. 'Injuries', 'luck', 'only 6 games into the season', 'he needs more time', 'good signs (winning 1-0 after a scrappy game vs a relegation side) ' etc. The fact that we're still even debating whether we are capable of making top fecking 4 this year after half a billion spent and 3 seasons in charge is very alarming. How is this being accepted by anyone? The manager himself had the audacity to say that we need more investment to compete for top 4 after 2 seasons in charge and 400 odd million being spent. It's ridiculous.
When he came in, I'm pretty sure everyone would agree with that kind of time and money spent over 3 seasons, we should absolutely be in the title race or at least competitive in our third season yet here we are still possibly competing for top 4? I just don't get how this is not seen as a total and utter failure. We literally look worse than after his first couple of months in charge.
Please, someone pinch me. I must be dreaming.
But at the end of the day we aren't good enough. Keane had it right, we really are the new Spurs.It really is quite damning that some of us are willing to accept that losing 3 out of 6 games is OK! It's precisely the reason we will never progress as a club continuing with a manager that has consistently shown that his team is inconsistent! There is no magic strategy/tactic/confidence boost that is going create the level of performance that should be expected from a Utd manager. We just need to acknowledge that (sooner rather than later) and move on.
I'd say 2 of those games are winnable.Southampton, Palace, Spurs, Villa, Brentford, West Ham are the next 6 league games.
18 points for grabs, you'd be happy with 15 points. That brings us to the end of October then we have Chelsea at home first game of November.
Those 7 games are winnable.
Southampton should be a convincing win, not a lucky 1 goal win. Palace will be harder but again you'd expect 3 points. Spurs, haven't been that great against them last few games. It's my first game at OT this season so please do them with style for me! ha. Villa haven't started great either - could go any way. Brentford should be a win and West Ham is away - I think that will cause United the most trouble. Chelsea - whoever is less shite on the day.
Ten Hag and the team have a chance to get a nice number of points with these 7 games.
You people act like top level footballers are so thick that they can only play one way and now are onto a narrative that we have to hire a Ten Hag 2.0 for progression forgetting that the reason we had to make a change at each juncture was failure. So why persist with a failing model?For me the bigger issue than waiting too long, is the uncoordinated succession of managers - we've jumped around managers with wildly different footballing philosophies and so haven't been able to build any continuity, which has led to us starting a rebuild from the ground up after 3 years at most. Throwing another random manager with a different approach is simply the more of the same in my book, it'll be a waste of another 3 years as opposed to at most one more season under Ten Hag if he doesn't turn things around. That's a big part of why I'm so against the idea of sacking him now.
On the last 18 months form, Southampton will either be a 1-0 undeserved win or draw. Palace and Spurs will thump us. Villa will thump us but somehow miss 30 chances and we'll win. Brentford will demolish us and West Ham will roll over for us. 3 wins 3 defeats.
I do feel that United fans are tired of replacing managers, but why should United listen to those babies? United aren't replacing managers at some crazy pace. Apart from Moyes, every manager has gotten 2 seasons at least despite the vast sums of money spent, crap football to watch, and not being close to having a title challenge past December.
Our fanbase has this insane thought that we're recycling managers and that couldn't be further from the truth. If 2 seasons for every manager counts as recycling managers, than our fanbase is deluded.
Yeah Ratcliffe should be going back cap in hand to him and getting the deal done.
Yeah I probably agree unless we find the only managers willing to work in this structure are the losers like Southgate.
This is why I can see us having an interim and they going in for McKenna or Iraola next summer. Or someone similar to those 2.
There's not a chance we're getting 15 points from 6 games.Southampton, Palace, Spurs, Villa, Brentford, West Ham are the next 6 league games.
18 points for grabs, you'd be happy with 15 points. That brings us to the end of October then we have Chelsea at home first game of November.
Those 7 games are winnable.
Southampton should be a convincing win, not a lucky 1 goal win. Palace will be harder but again you'd expect 3 points. Spurs, haven't been that great against them last few games. It's my first game at OT this season so please do them with style for me! ha. Villa haven't started great either - could go any way. Brentford should be a win and West Ham is away - I think that will cause United the most trouble. Chelsea - whoever is less shite on the day.
Ten Hag and the team have a chance to get a nice number of points with these 7 games.
What ?There's not a chance we're getting 15 points from 6 games.
We've only taken 22 from the last 17.
Have you not noticed?What ?
Only 22 points from 17 games ?
Have we been that bad ?
Wish a reporter would ask ETH why having the second most trophies in the last two years didn't translate to more than 22 fecking points from 17 games.There's not a chance we're getting 15 points from 6 games.
We've only taken 22 from the last 17.
Now we are talking shades of gray. You expect 4th - 6th, I expect 4th, minimum ( hopefully 75pts, but if not okay). Also. Stop calling me delusional. That’s just a shitty cop out to deal with someone who has a different opinion.It's not the wilderness though, is it?
I literally said I think we're good enough for a tilt at top four this season. Such a season may well end up with Champions League football next season, but we could still have a better season than many others in the past decade and fail to qualify. I also said I think we could be good enough for 2nd/3rd within three seasons, which should have made it obvious that my point was that this season and the next will be steps to progressing to that level, and not further seasons pissing about in 8th.
As I see it, we're good enough for 4th to 6th this season. That's the minimum I expect out of this campaign, and I'd even argue 3rd if Liverpool run out of steam. It's unlikely we're actually in the hunt for top four and still end up lower than 6th. Next season could well go a similar way, but the important thing for me is making further improvements to the squad and further cementing a positive, effective style of play (which is unlikely to look too dissimilar to what we've been attempting under Ten Hag).
The season after is when I expect to see fruit. Comfortable Champions League qualification, possibly even a tilt at the title. If some of the youngsters kick-on this season and we invest well next summer, we could even jump to this stage next season.
If that's the wilderness to you, then as I said, you're as delusional as the Liverpool fans we used to mock. I'm just being realistic about our prospects this campaign, given the squad at our disposal, and regardless of manager.
This is relegation form..Wish a reporter would ask ETH why having the second most trophies in the last two years didn't translate to more than 22 fecking points from 17 games.
If we took rolling 17 game periods, is this the worst points record in our history?
Worst thing is we were lucky to get that.Wish a reporter would ask ETH why having the second most trophies in the last two years didn't translate to more than 22 fecking points from 17 games.
If we took rolling 17 game periods, is this the worst points record in our history?
Last season was a disaster and even in that nightmare we were what? Eight points behind top four and given how we threw a few winning positions away and ended up losing games we should have won it seems fairly safe to assume that a more competent manager would have us safely finishing in the top 4.Truthfully, I think we'll be able to make the call by the next international break. Realistically, I do think we're plodding on until November/December.
We really should be good enough to get to the Arsenal game at the start of December relatively unscathed. We're obviously not going to win every game, but the toughest games between now and then are Spurs at home, Villa away and Chelsea at home, with Porto and Fenerbache away in the Europa. Even then, I'd argue every game falls into the "eminently winnable" category in isolation, with us being clear favourites in the majority, regardless of where we're playing.
The problem I have with "top 4 minimum" is that City and Arsenal are simply better than us, and it'd take a massive drop off from them as well as a massive improvement from us to overtake them. Liverpool are also better than us, but there remains a glimmer of hope (even after last weekend) that Slot can't keep them going.
We're looking at competing for one, maybe two spots, among a group of five or so clubs who are all of a similar quality to us. As I pointed out to DSG, who marked 75 points as the "safe" total to achieve top four - we've only managed that twice in the post-Fergie era, and that exact points total wasn't actually enough for Arsenal to get top four in 2016/17.
I think the league is simply too competitive now for us to be making such a bold expectation our "minimum". You basically need to reach the midway point of the season with at least some degree of hope you could win the title to have a comfortable top four finish these days, and if you're not good enough to do that (even with the acknowledgement that it'll likely tail off as the season comes to a close), you can't expect fourth as a minimum. We simply aren't that good.
What ?
Only 22 points from 17 games ?
Have we been that bad ?
An understatement!18 points for grabs, you'd be happy with 15 points
Now we are talking shades of gray. You expect 4th - 6th, I expect 4th, minimum ( hopefully 75pts, but if not okay). Also. Stop calling me delusional. That’s just a shitty cop out to deal with someone who has a different opinion.
I have a different opinion from you. Minimum CL places. Especially after 600m! Most of whom are Dutch or former Ajax players that he signed off on. This is fecking top level football. You deliver or you are fecking gone. It’s that simple. No more excuses.
The fact that so many United fans don’t realise just how bad we’ve been is honestly incredible.
Our form over the past 15 games or so from the back end of last season through the start of this has us in the relegation zone. Our goal difference over the same amount of time that the likes of City & Arsenal have amassed in the region of +70/80, is -1.
The stats and data showing us how bad we’ve been (if just watching us isn’t enough) is all out there. Most of it has been posted in this thread, and yet, we still have people defending this clown and demanding he’s given more time. It’s absolutely bonkers.
We are literally 15th in the table when you take our last 15 games. That's not mid-tableThe difference between 4th and 5th is fairly black and white, so no, we're not "talking shades of gray" and yes you are coming across as delusional because you've based your expectations on superficial transfer expenditure.
I had this back and forth earlier with someone else. You simply cannot hold the view that Antony is nowhere near an £80 million player, Casemiro no longer comes close to being worth £60 million, Onana was never a £45 million player, and that we've overspent on the likes of Mount and Hojlund, and then point to our transfer expenditure as if it holds any meaning.
You're also completely ignoring that we've effectively changed owners since then. I don't know how many times I have to make it clear to you that this isn't even about Ten Hag for me. We could sack him now and I would still expect us to be in a fight for top four, simply because our squad isn't very good.
I wish people would stop posting this. It's not true at all. We've been bad, and below the standards we should have been reaching, but even then we've been mid-table.
I counted it out the other day. Literally only City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Chelsea and Newcastle have more points than us over the past 19 Premier League games. We managed more than Spurs in that timeframe.
We are literally 15th in the table when you take our last 15 games. That's not mid-table
