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Erik ten Hag

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If nothing else at least we are showing Ten Hag up for the bang average manager he clearly is.

If we'd let him go in the summer there would be plently of element of doubt there, so he would have probably got another top job, if we sacked him now then someone would no doubt take a chance on him, but if we give him another 2-3 months to really hammer home how crap he is, then he will likely never work outside of Holland again, and he can't harp on about not been given a proper chance, etc.

It doesn't help us I know, but it's a least a change to see one of these so called top managers not getting sacked to let them off the hook.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
If nothing else at least we are showing Ten Hag up for the bang average manager he clearly is.

If we'd let him go in the summer there would be plently of element of doubt there, so he would have probably got another top job, if we sacked him now then someone would no doubt take a chance on him, but if we give him another 2-3 months to really hammer home how crap he is, then he will likely never work outside of Holland again, and he can't harp on about not been given a proper chance, etc.

It doesn't help us I know, but it's a least a change to see one of these so called top managers not getting sacked to let them off the hook.
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I somehow feel like he will still somehow be really bitter if he does get sacked, blaming everyone else but himself tbh.
 
stevoc said:
"Mazraoui out for weeks"
"Martinez out for weeks"
"Maguire out injured"
"Shaw and Malacia still out"

Erik Ten Hag: "Yesssssshh!" :cool:
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The man would use the injury excuse even if we just had Tom Heaton out.
 
Cloud7 said:
So I just want to be sure that I'm following your logic here.

People said the same thing about SAF a few years into his time at United, but he ended up proving everyone wrong.

Does this mean that you believe every manager who manages at United should be given a similar amount of time, regardless of how we're doing or looking, because SAF didn't start off that well and got better?

Or do you mean you've seen something in ETH specifically in his time at United that makes you think that he might have a SAF like trajectory?
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Time is all that matters apparently.

Also that logic should surely apply to every manager at every club ever? Palace should have kept Hodgson. Liverpool should not have sacked Rodgers or Hodgson etc.? For some reason though, these people never apply the logic to other clubs or players.

What about players? Should we have not signed Van Persie but instead just kept Macheda?

It is so disrespectful to Fergies qualities and legacy to even say such nonsense.
 
Red in STL said:
All I'm saying is that for the decision makers the situation with ETH is exactly the same as it was back in the day with SAF

The board back then thought he was the man for the job , the fanbase not so much, the first few years of SAF's reign the team was pretty crap, some of his signings were pretty awful and the results weren't very good either

Right now the board appear to think ETH is the man for the job, the fanbase not so much, the team is pretty crap, so are some of the signings and the results

Given what happened maybe the board know have better instincts than us fans, I was there in those early days and I wasn't so sure that SAF was any better than what preceded him, I was wrong and I wasn't alone, , I don't think ETH is the man for us either but I could also be wrong again

But this notion that sacking the manager and bringing in Tuchel, Nagelsman or whomever will automatically make us better is nonsense, they migh but they equally might not, hence the be careful of what you wish for because no one in football guarantees you success
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That there is a strawman. No one said that changing the manager will automatically make us better. But sticking with a failing one will almost certainly make us worse (just look at all the metrics this season so far vs. last season - hell, past the Carabao Cup final vs. Newcastle the previous season).

Look beyond a surface level analysis ('Arteta, SAF, etc. got time'), and look at trends. @Iker Quesadillas for example posted a points-per-game graph of ETH vs. Arteta, for example, showing a clear opposite trend.

And I wouldn't be too sure the board thinks that ETH is the right man just because they haven't sacked him yet. We KNOW that ETH is still in post in part because we couldn't agree a deal with Tuchel. INEOS spoke to others as well during that 'review'. So they are far from convinced by ETH. Nor have they given him a new contract, just triggered an option.

IMO, it's actually more likely that a long-term candidate is unavailable because October/midseason/in a contract.
 
They'll probably keep him. Feels like late May when they were taking the decision for so long and kept him.

Think sticking with ten Hag will hurt us more, especially in league and we'll drop many points over next month. Hopefully he'll be gone over next International break in November or pehaps December..
 
Garnacho Libre said:
I know where you're coming from. If Liverpool go through a bad patch, I think people will begin to see Slot the same was as Ten Hag (at press conferences).

The Spurs game - nobody could pass the ball. The players were nervous and I understand that but there's a line where players have to help themselves and get through stuff like that. There's a serious lack of leaders on the pitch. Maybe Ten Hag could have done something or said something but a player not running and tracking back and being way too late to make a sprint, that should be on the player to do regardless of who the manager is or what tactics there are.

I think Ten Hag understands English perfectly well, I just think maybe he's not expressing himself in the best way and maybe if he spoke in his native language he could express himself better.

I see what you did there :lol:
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This is 100% my take as well. Erik has not helped himself, but this is not solely a managerial issue. Hence, if there's a managerial change I hope the one stepping in will have the authority to stamp out that culture as soon as possible.

Every ex player keeps saying the same (United that is).
 
Sarni said:
He may simply need better players to execute his perfect tactics then?

This is a problem with manager who is absolutely perfect, he also needs his players to be close to that level. If they aren’t, things may not work out.
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I hope not. The squad is close to top four quality. We are still struggling to field fullbacks and are light in midfield.

We need to be able to defend well when we are attacking, instead of only doing one or the other well.

Think back to Porto game where we just couldn’t do the right things in the backline.
Defending those types of attacks should become routine.
 
NLunited said:
I hope not. The squad is close to top four quality. We are still struggling to field fullbacks and are light in midfield.

We need to be able to defend well when we are attacking, instead of only doing one or the other well.

Think back to Porto game where we just couldn’t do the right things in the backline.
Defending those types of attacks should become routine.
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Yes, but isn't that largely a problem with the setup? In most games, we play a 3-1-6 in possession, hence the massive gap left behind for teams to counter-attack through. The tactics rely on players making little to no mistakes to be successful and that's just unrealistic. If the system was also leading to a lot of goals scored as well as goals conceded, it wouldn't be as much of a problem but we are dire in both departments.
 
BorisManUtd said:
They'll probably keep him. Feels like late May when they were taking the decision for so long and kept him.

Think sticking with ten Hag will hurt us more, especially in league and we'll drop many points over next month. Hopefully he'll be gone over next International break in November or pehaps December..
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Unfortunately it doesn't feel like there will be any decision. The club will say nothing and it'll just fizzle out when the next game rolls around. INEOS coming with the 4d chess - afterall, how can you get criticised for deciding to keep him again when you didn't even make a decision, as you didn't consider his position anyway?
 
Garnacho Libre said:
I know where you're coming from. If Liverpool go through a bad patch, I think people will begin to see Slot the same was as Ten Hag (at press conferences).

The Spurs game - nobody could pass the ball. The players were nervous and I understand that but there's a line where players have to help themselves and get through stuff like that. There's a serious lack of leaders on the pitch. Maybe Ten Hag could have done something or said something but a player not running and tracking back and being way too late to make a sprint, that should be on the player to do regardless of who the manager is or what tactics there are.

I think Ten Hag understands English perfectly well, I just think maybe he's not expressing himself in the best way and maybe if he spoke in his native language he could express himself better.

I see what you did there :lol:
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I get your point about underperforming but it does tie back to the manager. What kind of message do you think they are getting if they continue to get picked no matter what?

I mean you can hark back to the players sure, but he’s had what..75% squad changed with new players. If the new players are doing this, who’s problem do you think that is?
 
It’s nice to know we have a guy in Florida knowing exactly was was talked about during the meeting.

Seriously stop posting this fan fiction.
 
Garethw said:
If this is true then I have serious worries over our new CEO and DOF.
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Ye we need to question how Ratcliffe is getting overlooked and out voted. Surely him and the glazers have the final say and can over rule anyone els.
 
If true, how can someone as experienced as Ashworth come to the conclusion that Ten Hag should be give more time? Truly baffling.

Secondly, if the top dogs want change now, why can't they just overrule the 'football hierarchy' on such an important matter?
 
Werd. said:
If true, how can someone as experienced as Ashworth come to the conclusion that Ten Hag should be give more time? Truly baffling.

Secondly, if the top dogs want change now, why can't they just overrule the 'football hierarchy' on such an important matter?
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Well then it would've been utterly pointless hiring them in the first place, no ?
 
Werd. said:
If true, how can someone as experienced as Ashworth come to the conclusion that Ten Hag should be give more time? Truly baffling.

Secondly, if the top dogs want change now, why can't they just overrule the 'football hierarchy' on such an important matter?
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Because that would be stupid. The point of having a football hierarchy is that they understand football better than the owners who have zero expertise in football do. Therefore they take the lead in football decisions.
 
pocco said:
Unfortunately it doesn't feel like there will be any decision. The club will say nothing and it'll just fizzle out when the next game rolls around. INEOS coming with the 4d chess - afterall, how can you get criticised for deciding to keep him again when you didn't even make a decision, as you didn't consider his position anyway?
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In that case, they deserve criticism for not considering his position in the first place. In some point in the near future, we will be completely out of reach of top 4, having to sack the manager anyway and writing off a season that could have been salvaged. I feel like with INEOS it will be similar to the situation with ETH, where a lot of fans have blind faith in them despite a lot of worrying signs which they choose to ignore until it's impossible not to.

I really do hope I'm wrong though.
 
For Mark Goldbridge (which is not his real name, btw) and anyone else here who still defends ETH let me ask you a question:

Is there a single PL or even Championship Club who would swap their current manager for Erik ten Hag?
 
FrankDrebin said:
Well then it would've been utterly pointless hiring them in the first place, no ?
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sullydnl said:
Because that would be stupid. The point of having a football hierarchy is that they understand football better than the owners who have zero expertise in football do. Therefore they take the lead in football decisions.
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I'm not contesting those aspects. However, when the owners can clearly see the issues we all do and want to make a change now but the hierarchy are thinking more time could solve the issues (but evidence to date is against that), is it really an efficient hierarchy? And should the owners also just back the play in this particular case, despite their concerns and the evidence to date?
 
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lex talionis said:
For Mark Goldbridge (which is not his real name, btw) and anyone else here who still defends ETH let me ask you a question:

Is there a single PL or even Championship Club who would swap their current manager for Erik ten Hag?
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Obviously, yes.

Ten Hag is doing very badly here, just as many managers with better CVs than him have done in the recent past. But he has still won trophies here, and his excellent record at Ajax still remains.

The idea that lesser clubs in the PL/Championship wouldn't understand that is delusional. And many of those lesser clubs have doubts about their own, less proven managers.
 
sullydnl said:
Obviously, yes.

Ten Hag is doing very badly here, just as many managers with better CVs than him have done in the recent past. But he has still won trophies here, and his excellent record at Ajax still remains.

The idea that lesser clubs in the PL/Championship wouldn't understand that is delusional. And many of those lesser clubs have doubts about their own, less proven managers.
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Turning United into a midtable team despite having a squad investment of £600m is some doing though. Most PL teams would prefer a Manager to be able to perform in the League to ensure their clubs safety. Trophies aren't overly important for owners, the money of staying in the PL is however. I'll be surprised if he gets another job in England until he proves himself at another club again. His time here is a huge red mark on his CV.

Anyway, it's a dumb initial statement because most clubs couldn't afford his wages even if they would want to have him.
 
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DJ_21 said:
Ye we need to question how Ratcliffe is getting overlooked and out voted. Surely him and the glazers have the final say and can over rule anyone els.
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Him yes, Glazers no.

BUT, he has appointed these people to do this and fully trusts them to do it properly, if he is going to be overruling them all the time then he needn't bother hiring them.

Tuchel is a concern for me too so I can see why the hesitation on him.
 
DJ_21 said:
Ye we need to question how Ratcliffe is getting overlooked and out voted. Surely him and the glazers have the final say and can over rule anyone els.
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He is the owner, he cannot get outvoted. He can sack Ashworth any moment, and together with Glazers can sack Berrada.

Muppetiers are purely guessing. But assuming it is true, which it isn’t, it doesn’t mean that Ratcliffe is getting outvoted. More like that he put people in charge of leading the club, and they hold a different opinion to him, so he is deferring to that, as he should. On the other time, again if this is true, Berrada and Ashworth are putting lots of pressure on themselves, cause like EtH they will get judged too. If they feck this decision too long, and then the things do not quickly fix under the new manager(s), they might find themselves fired too.
 
lex talionis said:
I'm a long suffering fan of losing clubs, which for some reason we call "franchises" in the US, and I like to think at least that I can handle a bad run of form by the club (or franchise) I support, but what we have been seeing now for over 12 months (and in truth, for about a decade with the exception of a few nice runs of form under Jose and Ole) -- with the exception of two very performances against City in the FA Cup and then the Community Shield -- has been shocking. If we were bedding in young players we'd all be on board with the rebuilding program, but we are not bedding in new young players. The performance level continues to drop.

Let's play a quick mind game: did anyone here, I mean is there a single United supporter whatsoever -- who was actually surprised to see Liverpool and Spurs dismantle us? I seriously doubt it. Is anyone actually surprised that after the abysmal summer friendlies that we have started the season so poorly?

There's not much to look forward to from United until we do something about the manager, who has lost the players in my humble opinion.
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Says something when I absolutely dread having to play any half decent side much less Liverpool because I know there’s a good chance we add to our catalogue of embarrassments, instead of buzzing to wake up and watch a big matchup
 
Werd. said:
If true, how can someone as experienced as Ashworth come to the conclusion that Ten Hag should be give more time? Truly baffling.

Secondly, if the top dogs want change now, why can't they just overrule the 'football hierarchy' on such an important matter?
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He was part of the selection committee than picked Southgate for England and is a big admirer of him, hence the constant rumours linking him with us. That alone is worrying
 
santeria13 said:
Yes, but isn't that largely a problem with the setup? In most games, we play a 3-1-6 in possession, hence the massive gap left behind for teams to counter-attack through. The tactics rely on players making little to no mistakes to be successful and that's just unrealistic. If the system was also leading to a lot of goals scored as well as goals conceded, it wouldn't be as much of a problem but we are dire in both departments.
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This system is played by other teams without issues. Playing attacking football always carries some risk, but dangerous counter attacks can be dealt with by good positioning and aggressive defending.

We created a lot in our first PL games, so I’m not too worried about that part.
 
TBH, it is normal practice for the most senior person in an organisation to overrule a decision on important matters when absolutely necessary in the corporate world. Sure egos end up being bruised but you get on with it.

In our case, this is absolutely an important decision while also being a unique situation at the same time in that, they backed the manager in the summer and it hasn't worked out but the decision makers still want to give him more time while the owners want a change. Not sure if another club has experienced such a similar situation before.

Then again, it all depends on if muppetiers is right.
 
NLunited said:
This system is played by other teams without issues. Playing attacking football always carries some risk, but dangerous counter attacks can be dealt with by good positioning and aggressive defending.

We created a lot in our first PL games, so I’m not too worried about that part.
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No it's not. Teams that do something similar also have a very high line which doesn't leave the astronomical gap that I mentioned. Our Low block in combination with this style is the issue and it's been like that for a long time. There's a reason that lone midfielder always looks terrible, whether it be Casemiro, Ugarte or sometimes Mainoo when he has to fill in after a sub etc.

We're the only team that attempts this madness.
 
I get that there might be some hesitation regarding Tuchel or other available managers, but there shouldn't be any hesitation regarding sacking ETH now.

It's absolutely clear that whatever he wants to do isn't reaching the players. He has been given enough time and resources. The issue isn't with the results itself, it's the fact that performances are consistently poor. Keeping him will allow this cloud of negativity around the club to linger, and it's so unnecessary. ETH might be putting a brave face in front of the media, but deep down surely he knows he's gone. The players aren't that different than us, they also know he'll be gone soon. Just pull the Triger.
 
Garethw said:
If this is true then I have serious worries over our new CEO and DOF.
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How do we know any part of that is true? Who's leaking the info?
Plus why are they worried about TT in the long term? Surely he's just the next step or the one after a caretaker to get things back on track from this shitshow.
None of that makes any sense unless they're actually looking for Fergie 2.0.
 
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sullydnl said:
Obviously, yes.

Ten Hag is doing very badly here, just as many managers with better CVs than him have done in the recent past. But he has still won trophies here, and his excellent record at Ajax still remains.

The idea that lesser clubs in the PL/Championship wouldn't understand that is delusional. And many of those lesser clubs have doubts about their own, less proven managers.
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I'm sure a few Championship clubs would consider bringing in Erik ten Hag, but which among them would actually do so? Certainly not Sunderland, who are on to great things with Regis Le Bris. So let's go to the bottom of the table...Cardiff City. It's quite possible Cardiff would bring in ETH if he were available to them, but one can't be sure about that.
 
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