Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

[Blood Mage]

The Villa game will be his last barring a miraculous decisive victory.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Thinking back to the last time we went in to a game with rumours that Ten Hag would be sacked regardless of the result. Bodes well for a defiant display tomorrow.

Says something that most of the teams in the PL look a big dodgy atm, but we manage to look even worse than them.

 

[moses]

It’s derailed already because the manager is out of his depth and has undermined himself by performing so poorly. The roll of the dice was not sacking him in the summer and it’s the same now. The sensible and rational decision is to sack him and try to salvage the season, the bar is set pretty low for improvement.

Yep, with the right candidate.

 

[Shark]

The Villa game will be his last barring a miraculous decisive victory.

We could win 0-5 and I'd still want him sacked.

 

[moses]

How is it absurd?

For instance , I'm definitely not as good a manager as Erik Ten Hag. I'd guess you weren't either.

 

[Blood Mage]

We could win 0-5 and I'd still want him sacked.

Me too but Ineos have shown already that they lack the balls to sack him after a big result.

 

[moses]

What do you mean by “could derail spectacularly”? Unless you are fearful of relegation, then I’d say the train has already come off the tracks and rolled down the ravine beyond hope of salvaging.

If the club can’t get a top class replacement, then appointing an interim seems to me a better option that keeping on a manager who has been floundering for over 12 months.

I mean could disrupt all the bedding in that is happening.

 

[spwd]

Ten Hag FC are such an odd bunch, and I’ll never understand why they are so behind such an inept manager. It’s like arguing with flat earth’ers.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.

Agree 100%

 

[Roboc7]

Yep, with the right candidate.

Who knows how many more attempts it will take to find the right candidate at the right time. At the moment the most important thing is getting rid of ETH and moving on. It hasn’t worked out but there is no reason to waste more time now and nothing to gin from him remaining manager beyond the Villa game.

 

[Leftback99]

Ten Hag FC are such an odd bunch, and I’ll never understand why they are so behind such an inept manager. It’s like arguing with flat earth’ers.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.

Spot on.

What's he said about LB now?

 

[Zumbi]

We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.

No, not every candidate is potentially better. That's absurd.

No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.

 

[Jev]

For instance , I'm definitely not as good a manager as Erik Ten Hag. I'd guess you weren't either.

I don’t think either one of us would be considered as a candidate.

 

[davidmichael]

We can’t even score goals for the most part whilst Villa are probably the most consistent team outside of the top three over the past couple of years and at home, surely tomorrow is THE end for ETH and even his biggest defenders can’t honestly believe it’s not deserved.

Since the League Cup win we’ve been fecking awful and a couple of trophies doesn’t change that, those trophies are the epitome of putting a plaster on a broken leg.

I pray there’s truth to us approaching Tuchel as short term he’s the sort that’s needed, an actual tactician and hopefully a group of players buoyed by a new manager bounce.

 

[Blood Mage]

Ten Hag FC are such an odd bunch, and I’ll never understand why they are so behind such an inept manager. It’s like arguing with flat earth’ers.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.

A manager who has us in relegation form. A manager who could make relegation a very real possibility if he were to remain in charge for the rest of the season. I cannot make sense of his true believers.

 

[Leftback99]

I'd take us being derailed, he's been driving us the wrong way up the tracks for 18 months.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.

Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.

 

[Jev]

Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.

The point is there’s not a single candidate (that we’d consider) that doesn’t have way more upside potential than ETH, while you can scarcely believe anyone could have more downside potential. Which makes sacking him now a no risk/high reward move.

 

[stevoc]

We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.

That's already happening though mate. If the form over the last 20 matches continues we could get dragged right down the table and potentially even into a relegation scrap, it's already derailed.

What is a vastly better candidate than the man who's overseen the clusterfeck that has been the last 18 months at United?

 

[moses]

That's already happening though mate.

What is a vastly better candidate than the man who's overseen the clusterfeck that has been the last 18 months at United?

This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.

 

[moses]

No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.

But that's not what I'm saying we should do.

 

[spwd]

I'm not sure I am mate we're discussing replacing Ten Hag that isn't nearly as difficult as replacing Alex Ferguson. No one is saying just get anybody in but going out and getting the best available circa October 2024 is probably going to be an improvement on what we currently have which let's be honest is awful. Ten Hag is a good manager but he's obviously a bad fit for the Premier League and Manchester United. Some managers have teams punching above the talent available to them. Ten Hag over the last 18 months has us punching below our weight, virtually in relelgation form. We can't allow that to continue just because there isn't an ideal/good candidate available currently. You never know how someone will perform until they're actually in the job so I'm not sure there's even such a thing as an ideal candidate. Pretty much every managerial appointment is a roll of the dice.

Exactly. I just can't get my head around the people that say "stick with this shit" because the guy that replaces him might not be the second coming. Every potential employee in every job has the potential to be a good hire or a bad hire and that includes every football manager.

I mean Christ, you've got the evidence right in front of you with this fraud. Let's say 90% of us thought he was going to be a good hire before we appointed him but he's failed spectacularly apart from 2 cups.

 

[Jev]

This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.

What do you mean here exactly?

 

[moses]

What do you mean here exactly?

You haven't noticed the flux and chaos at Man United?

 

[Cloud7]

We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.

How much more derailed can it get mate? We’re 14th and look good value for being exactly there. How much worse can someone else make it, 16th?

 

[Maluco]

It’s annoying that all hope is lost. Every game under him now is just more and more time wasted.

Just another annoyingly long wait for the axe to fall, as is the custom at Manchester United.

 

[kouroux]

No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.

14th*

 

[Jev]

You haven't noticed the flux and chaos at Man United?

Sure. But for a year and a half the excuse was that he was in a Glazer club and needed a proper structure. Now said new structure is the issue? When do the excuses end?

 

[moses]

How much more derailed can it get mate? We’re 14th and look good value for being exactly there. How much worse can someone else make it, 16th?

Well we don't know that. But there are so many new players personnel and departments bedding in there is a logic to letting those processes settle a bit. So that's basically why I don't think an interim (bar someone already here) or a anyone will do appointment will work.

 

[moses]

Sure. But for a year and a half the excuse was that he was in a Glazer club and needed a proper structure. Now said new structure is the issue? When do the excuses end?

It's not an excuse. It's the context of adding another moving part before we assess how the many already new parts are doing. The wrong appointment could set all that back.

 

[Zumbi]

Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.

That’s not what I’m arguing.

Obviously Ineos should be aiming for the best available candidate, but it’s easy to argue against any potential replacement by saying even they’re not guaranteed to be a “vastly better candidate”. That’s why such a stipulation is a logical absurdity - success is impossible to predict and even the best managers with the biggest cessentials have failed before.

But if you already have a failing manager the only logical thing to do is assess potential replacements and then just hire the best available one. And that person doesn’t have to tick every single box for every single fan for it to still be a logical move that’s less risky than persisting with known failure.

 

[moses]

Exactly. I just can't get my head around the people that say "stick with this shit" because the guy that replaces him might not be the second coming. Every potential employee in every job has the potential to be a good hire or a bad hire and that includes every football manager.

I mean Christ, you've got the evidence right in front of you with this fraud. Let's say 90% of us thought he was going to be a good hire before we appointed him but he's failed spectacularly apart from 2 cups.

But nobody is saying that. I'm saying the calls for anyone but ETH are naive.

 

[Jev]

It's not an excuse. It's the context of adding another moving part before we assess how the many already new parts are doing. The wrong appointment could set all that back.

What are you arguing? That we should not replace Ten Hag or that we should not replace him with a bad manager? I don’t think many would disagree with the latter.

 

[stevoc]

This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.

Well we know Ten Hag and his tactics aren't working, they weren't working before Ineos took over, they weren't working after Ineos took over and they aren't working now in a new season with very few injuries after Ineos have appointed people in key positions in the footballing structure to support him.

So there's one thing pretty obviously not working. Could you make a case that any of Ten Hags struggles this season are down to anything Ratcliffe, Ashworth, Wilcox and Berrada have did since July? Except letting him stay in the job of course.

There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach

By which time we'll almost certainly not have qualified for the CL for the second season in a row and the new manager having to deal with all the negative consequences of that failure (PSR, financial, sponsorships, attracting players etc).

It would be madness to let this continue for much longer.

 

[Acquire Me]

He will say exactly the same after the match tomorrow. Judge us in may. Wait and see. It’s just no substance at all.

 

[city-puma]

At this moment, it’s normal risk-averse people vs gamblers. Gamblers have been watching the downward trend keeps going down further but it also means the awards will be huge if it happens. No one really knows. But no one wants to see us in relegation battle. It’s freaking ridiculous if that happens.

 

[moses]

What are you arguing? That we should not replace Ten Hag or that we should not replace him with a bad manager? I don’t think many would disagree with the latter.

Yep, not many people can walk into this job. There's not many who can do it. For instance we were sure that someone who managed Ajax was ready to step up. But whether it was all too much because of the internal chaos or he's been promoted beyond his capabilities we don't know. Personally I didn't know much beyond the Ajax Champions League run but I was willing to back him because of Ajax and the amount of advocates he had on here.

If we had a Klopp or Alonso willing to take over tomorrow I wouldn't be arguing. The idea that a change is more important than the candidate is what I am saying. But as usual on here it's seen as a blind defence of ETH.

 

[spwd]

We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.

You mean like eth WAS? It's not a massive risk at all. Like I said in my other post, every single potential employee for every job in the world is basically a 50/50 and even when it's better odds like we thought with ETH he's proven NOTHING is guaranteed however much you expect! We're not far from the relegation zone and basically we're in relegation form so how can it get worse? It's already derailed spectacularly about 18 months ago.

 

[spwd]

No, not every candidate is potentially better. That's absurd.

You have eth under your nose proving you wrong matey. Even someone that had as much potential as eth had has shown it doesn't mean shit until you try.

 

[spwd]

How is it absurd?

It's not. He's obviously not thinking correctly. Absolutely every manager is a risk as proved by us and many other clubs. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[spwd]

Yep, with the right candidate.

Again, you mean the right candidate like eth was. How can you not see this?