Sneaky.Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Sneaky.Well you've convinced me!
No it's not, it's the equivalent of ETH spending 658m v.s. Chelsea's 630m
I'll give you the reasons why I wanted him to stay, and why I now want him gone.
To stay:
He had a decent first season, which showed me promise.
Record number of injuries was a very legit excuse to underperform last season. So, he had the benefit of doubt.
The club structure (or lack of it) didn't really help him in any way in the 2 windows.
Beating City in a cup final was no easy feat, so he deserves a pat on the back for that.
So, with the new ownership in place and taking the injuries into consideration - I backed him at the end of last season. And hoping that with a little bit of luck and a proper structure in place, he would be able to turn it around.
To leave:
I wanted to see improvement, but unfortunately he haven't. We've been appalling. He's had a proper structure, a pre-season, 5 new players... which is more than enough to fix the problems with the team. He doesn't have a legit excuse anymore. Nobody expected him to start beating everyone left and right. But we have already had 2 bad results at home which was reminiscent of last season, which means that he clearly has no idea what he's doing and how to improve the team.
Sadly things changed way too quickly in the space of 4 months, which is why the swaying of support seems surprising to you all.
If we're saying the managers performing poorly isn't down to the managers then there's no accountability anymore.
They all could have done so much better. We obviously have rubbish owners but the managers have still had more than enough to created good, competing teams.
There's no point listing them really as we all know but some of the decisons they've made have been absolutely shocking.
That's not hindsight either. Fans knew at the time that managers were making huge mistakes.
Please tell me what trophy they are shooting for this year? The trophy for worst drop in points, the greatest underachiever trophy? I do not see this ship changing direction with him at the helm, so either you let him go down with the ship or relegation at this point or change direction before it sinks.
I keep hearing they have to wait, no they do not have to wait, they need change and they need it now. ETH is going to cost this team millions as it is, not to mention accessorial sales. While this is a sports team it is also a business. Enron waited, how did that go for them?
I dont agree. How much have we spent? How much have chelsea spent? Spending money doesnt guarantee success. You have to have a manager who gets a team playing, not just put expensive individuals on the pitch and expect them to do something (ironically what our current team is).
And what I am really saying is if a new manager can organise 20 new players into a complete 180 in their play style in 8 weeks and find success then its a joke to think it takes the sort of timescales some suggest for ETH to get us playing any sort of decent football.
He’s been in the job 3 years and had 600 - 700 million of players and we cant put 5 passes together most weeks. I see lower league teams playing better football than us on a more consistent basis.
I read the article from Laurie. It's very safe. Statements vague enough to make sense no matter what happens.
The only semi-interesting piece of information is that Ratcliffe will be at the Villa game.
The only semi-interesting piece of information is that Ratcliffe will be at the Villa game.
When they say "taking a long term view, whatever happens against Porto and Villa", do they mean he's already sacked and they're lining up a replacement or that those two games don't matter and he's staying?
My guess is that its intentionally vague language from a reporter who doesn't know.
since 2013:
| Man Utd | Chelsea | Real Madrid | Bayern | Juventus | Napoli | Barcelona | Inter |
| Moyes | Mourinho | Ancelotti | Pep | Conte | Sarri | Martino | Mazzarri |
| Giggs | Holland | Benitez | Ancelotti | Allegri | Ancelotti | Enrique | Mancini |
| LvG | Hiddink | Zidane | Sagnol | Sarri | Gattuso | Valverde | De Boer |
| Mourinho | Conte | Lopetegui | Heynckes | Pirlo | Spalletti | Setien | Vecchi |
| Ole | Sarri | Solari | Kovac | Motta | Garcia | Koeman | Pioli |
| Carrick | Lampard | Zidane | Flick | Mazzarri | Barjuan | Vecchi | |
| Ragnick | Tuchel | Ancelotti | Nagelsmann | Calzona | Xavi | Spalletti | |
| EtH | Potter | Tuchel | Conte | Flick | Conte | ||
| Lampard | Kompany | Inzaghi | |||||
| Pochettino | |||||||
| Maresca |
United's list is also greatly inflated by the number of caretakers.
Only at United is there this notion of holding on to managers. Now guess which club underperformed the most?
What’s Samuel posting now about Dalot not talking to ETH…wonder if there is truth to it?
Inter and Chelsea went further down for short period, but overall it's a mix of us and them.
Hopefully it means he's getting potted and they want to look like they've got it all in hand and aren't being reactive.
Most likely means they've not got a scooby what to do and will instead play it safe and hope all turns out well, whilst giving the belief that this is all part of the plan. Picture a real life version of the "this is fine" meme with the dog in the burning building.
Inter has won two league titles, and were in a CL final just a couple years ago. Chelsea has also won couple league titles, and a CL to boot.
In that time Chelsea have won 2 Premier League titles and a Champions League and a Europa League. Their last 11 years have been miles better than ours.
The journalists go to when there’s no news. That and ‘sources who wish not to be named for obvious reasons’
Thats what I thought, saying he has until the International break makes no sence because what happens if we somehow beat Porto and Villa but then lose to Brentford and Fenebache and the International break isnt a very good time to change manager anyway as the new manager will have hardly any time with the squad before the Brentford game.
2 seasons for a manager having our budget should be enough to bring results. Moyes didn't even finnish his first year so that's 2 and half seasons for each of the following managers. Instead of progressing as seasons went on they all regressed.
The Chelsea comparison doesn't fly because they have gone through a lot more managers in that time.
Is he managing for his job tonight? If they made Ruud the permanent manager, INEOS would lose all credibility.
Yeah, true. Their highs were higher and lows were lower. It's been rough for us.
He can beat them both and still get sacked during the international break. I don’t think its the results that is the defining factor.
So if he can win both and still be saved why is it being claimed that he has those 2 games to save his job?
You are joking right? You know this isn’t true.
This has obviously been done to death but yeah, no
The players available to the manager was way better than the dragging us to an oddsbeating 8th place would suggest.
It is in no way a very legit excuse. We still had the stronger starting 11 in a lot of games and still got our asses handed to ourselves.
The players available to the manager was way better than the dragging us to an oddsbeating 8th place would suggest.
Only think he would be interim
It would be very odd if the new regime would let the odd result decide wether a change would be good or not.
If we suddenly stepped up and absolutely smashed Porto and Villa then that could be something to add to the bigger picture.
If we suddenly stepped up and absolutely smashed Porto and Villa then that could be something to add to the bigger picture.
They already did in the summer.
I would say that it's intentionally vague language from a PR officer, language that is in line with the BS they have been pedalling since the Spurs game in an attempt to give the illusion of following a plan and being in control.
There is absolutely no evidence that ETH can step up for 2 games in a row, maybe 1 game he can fluke a result but I cannot see us stepping up and scoring more than 1 goal in 2 games in a row without conceding more than 2.
We will get battered by Villa, minimum 2-0 I would say.
In league 1 Birmingham spent 15 times more than the next highest spender (Peterborough on 2 million) If ETH were to be the biggest spender by that amount in his first season that's 15 times more than Chelsea's 630 million, which is 9.4 billion.
Yeh, I always feel like while they were chopping and changing managers, they always had a strong base of quality, continental players.
Our recruitment in the same period has been a shambles.
I don't think so, I'm fairly confident he'd have been gone if they'd found someone available that matches what they want. Botching it and getting another in who isn't a top pick for them and being reactionary makes little sense, we just end up more than likely in the same cycle (again).
The result of the 2 games should pretty much mean nothing as the decision should already be made to sack him.
Keeping him on after a win is exactly what brought us to this position. This time INEOS would look even more ridiculous than after the FA cup.
Keeping him on after a win is exactly what brought us to this position. This time INEOS would look even more ridiculous than after the FA cup.
Only because he'd have spent it on 134 Antonys!
I agree with you a little, but leaving Ten Hag makes little sense as well, see where we are now.
There is no clear strategy for success like 'giving a manager time' or 'chopping and changing managers.' It is more complex than that. A club needs to be able to assess the manager's performance constantly, they need to look at short-term, medium-term, long-term objectives.
The problem with 'giving a manager time' is that it often becomes an excuse to stop assessing their performance in the short and medium term. It can bias the way you look at a season, as you might start assuming that negative issues are 'necessary growing pains' and whatnot.
The wildcard is will Villa be hungover from Bayern
Why are you listening to the claims?