HookedOnAPhelan
Full Member
Bet you'd be delighted if he called it "a finished product".I fecking hate his press conferences. Three years in and the cheeky knobhead still has the audacity to call his team “a work in process”.
Bet you'd be delighted if he called it "a finished product".I fecking hate his press conferences. Three years in and the cheeky knobhead still has the audacity to call his team “a work in process”.
Not saying he shouldn't be sacked, but man, so many people on here are going to be so disappointed when we sack Ten Hag and are still shit.The team might not be a finished product, but I bet the next manager is going to look like a right genius when he gets them to perform a lot better that what Ten Hag is doing.
That we are midtable for stats.What is "demonstrably not true" exactly?
Holy feck you lot that still defend this guy do my head in. Hope you enjoy another mid table finish!
I’ll take that as a ‘no’ from you then?You realize how pathetic "getting out of the group" is as a goal for Europa league though right?
14th to 5th in a table of 20 are close together?Nope. At best it's night and later that night.
This is his 3rd season now. Besides all the nice looking stats, where I'll agree have improved, his biggest problem is that he fails to find goals in the team.It’s interesting that last year seemed to be a tactical failure while this season seems to be individuals letting the team down. Both attacking and defensive stats are improved but ultimately we are relying on inconsistent players.
Now for what it’s worth if this was ETH’a first season I think you look at performances and the underlying stats and you say we’ve been a bit unlucky. Compare that to last year where even when we won we seemed to be the team getting away with things.
The problem is though that even if the model says we are underachieving our xG or whatever that’s likely to be ongoing. Our forwards are likely to consistently under-perform xG because there isn’t a reliable goalscorer amongst them. Any one of them could have a purple patch but you wouldn’t bet on it.
All we can do is hope that we keep creating lots of chances because we need to for this group to score goals. We also need to hope that we can add some more set piece goals because we need as many from all sources as we can get.
I’ve watched a lot of football this season, only 3 teams have looked really good so far. I’m under no illusions, nor should any of us be, that we are at the top of the totem pole but we should be aiming for 4th/5th in my opinion.This is like saying we've gone from completely crap to slightly less crap. Which games in particular have we played a lot better in general? Newly promoted Southampton, and that took a penalty save or things could've ended very differently. First half against Palace maybe, I can't think of any others really where we have shown a clear 'marked improvement'.
The underlying stats are demonstrably better than last season because, well, it would be extremely hard to be worse than last season. It is something we shouldn't be comparing our current performances against if we want clear improvement.
For me it's his lack of adaptation, it's the same formation each game with the same instructions, with the same results. We are predictable and not a good predictable. There seems to be no in game management when things aren't working, no tweaks, no new ideas and it shows.
There's a reason not many are saying 'we look a lot better'. Hopefully I'm eating my words by the end of the season and he comes a big success.
14th to 5th in a table of 20 are close together?
Why hasn't he been sacked yet?
This is his 3rd season now. Besides all the nice looking stats, where I'll agree have improved, his biggest problem is that he fails to find goals in the team.
3 seasons now and we still have trouble finding the back of the net. We got away with it in his first season, last season we didn't, and it seems we are just continuing the trend this season.
So his attacking setup doesn't work. I'm still not sure how he's even trying to find goals. If he can't get goals, he'll never win games which keeps the door open for opposition to come at us because we have no security.
Citing a shit article that’s giving a sample size so small is hilarious.14th to 5th in a table of 20 are close together?
Lets talk about his goals and assists shall we.wait what? Now Dalot is getting stick from redcafe fans ?
Why are you so vulgar? It’s literally an entire seasons stats plus this seasons.Citing a shit article that’s giving a sample size so small is hilarious.
It’s the same sort of stupid logic that we heard last winter, and then when you prompt people with “what would make you turn against him?” It just ends up being them needing to see a full season of poor performance and results (and then often they kick the can down the road again and cite another excuse as to why Ten Hag has been unlucky, or worse they write love letters asking INEOS to keep him)Hand-waving away last season as the result of freak injuries whilst simultaneously praising ETH for improvement in performances since last season is having your cake and eating it too.
Isn’t that obvious ? He is keeping his job while playing sh*t football and having sh*t results for mot then 18 months. The guy is effectively Harry Potter. Never seen such a good illusionist.Can ETH backers outline what they think his greatest strengths are.
Ok, we bet? If ETH stay until qualification is over, I think we’ll go through. You don’t.
What does the winner get?
Because I’m quite sick of people living in denial at this point, or worse being accepting of going toe to toe with average Dutch league sides or mid table PL teams.Why are you so vulgar? It’s literally an entire seasons stats plus this seasons.
Slot to the rescue!He’s giving us bald lads a bad name at this point. Unacceptable.
Not saying he shouldn't be sacked, but man, so many people on here are going to be so disappointed when we sack Ten Hag and are still shit.
Hand-waving away last season as the result of freak injuries whilst simultaneously praising ETH for improvement in performances since last season is having your cake and eating it too.
Not saying he shouldn't be sacked, but man, so many people on here are going to be so disappointed when we sack Ten Hag and are still shit.
Dafaq are you talking about?Bet you'd be delighted if he called it "a finished product".
Who cares ? Players don’t respond or believe to his poor management. Just someone fresh. The tea lady will get better results actually.Who would you replace him with, RVN? And try and persuade Tuchel or someone else?
Some of you guys are funny man. You want him gone after 50 games of shite but then back him after 3 more games because it isn’t enough? but after 7 games he can get to feck. Then judging him on every stat except points, wins and goals scored. My friend, let’s sit down and have a chat about this sport called football and what separates good teams from bad ones.For what it's worth, I voted to back him after the Liverpool game. My reasoning there was we should've sacked him in the summer for Tuchel but given we decided to stick, sacking him after 3 games makes no sense and Hake / RvN as interims will probably do worse than him.
I'm wavering now but just left it on keep mostly due to inertia but also a couple of different factors:
1. The data is not that bad, pretty high up the table in xG, npXG, chance creation, xGA etc.
2. Sample size is too small, I'll probably wait until the second international break and get some more games in before flipping the vote. Yes, the previous two seasons count as sample sizes but the picture is still hazy. Obviously not good enough last season but has the injury excuse and he managed a pretty decent first season with a worse squad and more chaos (Ronaldo, Greenwood sagas) than we have now. If we match his first season's points total that's good enough for me and should be doable.
Yes, exactly this.So you're saying everyone should just resign themselves to the idea that we'll be shit regardless of who the manager is and just abandon all hope of United ever being a force again?
That's the spirit.
It’s a work in progress because he’s making every player worse.Well he is not wrong about that. The team clearly is not a finished product and a work in process. He is atleast partly to blame for that though, the work he is doing on the team isnt really developing as fast as we would hope.
The amount of chances we just don’t put away is scandalous really, I feel a bit sorry for him, sometimes it’s harder to miss but we find a way, I’m sure he’s not coaching that..
Rashfords form was helping Ole look much better than he was, if we had him firing again the pressure would be nowhere near as intense, and Bruno has now randomly decided that he can’t pass, create or shoot.. it’s a tough time for the team really, we’re desperate for someone in front of goal to find form
Okay.Just try and imagine if you can, all the many thousands of Liverpool fans thinking/saying this exact same shite, when Rodgers was up for the sack.
Why do anything at all?If that’s your view just give up watching football entirely.What’s the point.
So, no?Put in context, we're the bookies and pundits joint favourites to win the entire competition. But if ETH stays long enough, form and eyes tell us we'll finish mid-table at best, and we'll lose in the playoff or ro16 game to another Copenhagen or Galatasaray-level side.
That's what happens when you back a loser.
Why am I living in denial for pointing out the underlying metrics have improved?Because I’m quite sick of people living in denial at this point, or worse being accepting of going toe to toe with average Dutch league sides or mid table PL teams.
It’s fine, keep backing him and then raise your hand up months from now and admit defeat if that’s what you wish to do. But I’m not going to pretend to take any data set seriously that involves only a month of matches, especially because in spite of it there are still clear issues with how he approaches games and managing them during the 90 minutes.
I’m quite tired of being a comedy club for a decade plus now, slightly improving performances while still getting poor results in a 3rd year of management, while he’s been backed better than any manager we’ve had post SAF, isn’t good enough
The problem is your suggestion that they’re underlying metrics, that suggests they’re the foundations of winning football matches. We could camp in our own half and have 90% possession, it doesn’t mean we’re winning games.Why am I living in denial for pointing out the underlying metrics have improved?
I'm on board for this.So you're saying everyone should just resign themselves to the idea that we'll be shit regardless of who the manager is and just abandon all hope of United ever being a force again?
That's the spirit.
Sorry do you think underlying metrics matter or not, I don’t follow? The article is pretty detailed, not sure how you could look at it and think we’ve duped the stats.The problem is your suggestion that they’re underlying metrics, that suggests they’re the foundations of winning football matches. We could camp in our own half and have 90% possession, it doesn’t mean we’re winning games.
Yes, exactly this.
Brilliant, well done.