Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

Erik ten Hag

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Erik is hands down the worst manager of the top teams I can think of in Europe.

He's a disaster, he's inconsistent and his very best season was a culmination of the imprint of two different managers which he's severely struggled to move away from.

After 650 million spent is there a manager at that ballpark who has made such little progress in over three seasons? I personally cannot recollect such an experience of failure let alone comprehend it.

INEOS dropped the ball, they showed all the right signs in approaching other coaches but likely made a mess of negotiations in coming to terms.

United are nothing more 10-6th position team under his management, it's a perfect reflection in caliber of his competence.

After such a shambolic season last year Erik could only have started well, he didn't have the credibility or leg room to do anything other than win the majority of the opening games regardless of opposition (exception of Arsenal / City).

He's already planted the foundations for another season where United enter into double digits for games lost by February / March.

There's no way on this earth the club persist with him.
 
astracrazy said:
I'd much rather finish top 8 and go straight to the last 16 than have to do a knock out round which could be against anyone else in 9 to 24 spots. Knowing our luck we'd end up with a tough opposition miles away.
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It's also additional two games in February which is already going to be a packed calendar with league and FA Cup.

But we probably won't have to worry about league anymore by then.
 
Sarni said:
Both games weren't remotely close. Our 1.52 xG in last game came mostly after they were already 2-0/3-0 up, and is not really hugely representative of what happened on the pitch. Saw a post the other day dissecting that - Martinez's overhead kick attempt accounted for more than 0.3 xG when in reality the odds of a player like Martinez hitting that are much lower than 1 in 3. Meanwhile both of their first half goals were lower than that.

Only real difference is they took their foot off the gas at 2-0 this time rather than 5-0. They still created enough in second half to get it to 4 or 5. We were completely outclassed in both games which is the point.
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I’m going to trust understat over you, if that’s ok. You’re just ignoring the stats and doubling down but it’s fine.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
It’s not that people are on his case it’s the overreaction. The residual anger just makes me wonder why people don’t just take a bit of time, the sheer volume of some posters saying the same thing over and over confuses the hell out of me.
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But it's not that people are reacting to one game in isolation. It's the disaster of last season, it's getting trashed by Liverpool again, it's disappointing results happening in the same way, it's ten Hag looking no closer to being a United manager now than he was a year ago.

There's barely even a reaction to this game, let alone an overreaction, it's just people saying the same stuff they've been saying for a year.
 
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Sarni said:
It's also additional two games in February which is already going to be a packed calendar with league and FA Cup.

But we probably won't have to worry about league anymore by then.
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Dare I say it, I don't think we have to worry about the league now. There are much better teams above us. Yes, it's a long season and we could end up with another manager in a month or so, but if past consistency with ETH is any indication of how the next few months will go, we're looking at another 8th place finish at best.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I’m going to trust understat over you, if that’s ok. You’re just ignoring the stats and doubling down but it’s fine.
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So basically you do genuinely believe our game v them this year was close, we just lacked finishing and on another day we could have won / drawn it.

Obviously us creating all these 'chances' after they already had the game secured has nothing to do with xG looking like that. xG stats are really not reliable when the game is over at half time.

Actually, our game at OT last year had xG almost identical to 0-5 drubbing, even worse than that (0.87 vs 3.92). Yet we somehow drew 2-2 and were close to winning. :lol:
 
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Mike Smalling said:
It's not about to happen. The board has just decided to back him before the summer, and the start has been disappointing, but not catastrophic.

He's probably at least 4-5 games away from getting the sack, if they are mostly losses.
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Maybe there is something in between disappointing and catastrophic. We only won 3 of our first 8 official games this season. That’s worse than last season.
 
peridigm said:
Dare I say it, I don't think we have to worry about the league now. There are much better teams above us. Yes, it's a long season and we could end up with another manager in a month or so, but if past consistency with ETH is any indication of how the next few months will go, we're looking at another 8th place finish at best.
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I don't think there's any chance in hell of us finishing above any of City, Arsenal and Liverpool but under normal circumstances we should be capable of fighting it out for 4th with Chelsea, Tottenham, Villa and maybe a couple others.
 
Sarni said:
I don't think there's any chance in hell of us finishing above any of City, Arsenal and Liverpool but under normal circumstances we should be capable of fighting it out for 4th with Chelsea, Tottenham, Villa and maybe a couple others.
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I don't disagree but I also don't see any indication our form and results are going to change anytime soon. It's not like we're missing that one piece of the puzzle that will click into place and all of a sudden we're good again.
 
kouroux said:
I'm not angry. Just didn't agree with you. I have no idea what you're making it out to be something more than that
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Your reply made no sense though. I said I don’t care about the EL group as long as we progress and you said I should care about the EL as it’s our best chance of the CL…so you just posted to agree with me?
 
peridigm said:
I don't disagree but I also don't see any indication our form and results are going to change anytime soon. It's not like we're missing that one piece of the puzzle that will click into place and all of a sudden we're good again.
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Yeah, Ugarte was that before he wasn't.
 
Ayoba said:
I mean, if you think about it, our only decent performances this season have been against a league 2 side and a new promoted team who will most likely get relegated. And yet there are some people taking about progress....


Can I cry now?
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Don't forget that decent first half against Palace!
 
Ichabod Ferguson said:
But it's not that people are reacting to one game in isolation. It's the disaster of last season, it's getting trashed by Liverpool again, it's disappointing results happening in the same way, it's ten Hag looking no closer to being a United manager now than he was a year ago.

There's barely even a reaction to this game, let alone an overreaction, it's just people saying the same stuff they've been saying for a year.
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But this simply isn’t true. This is what I don’t get. Assuming we all watch our games, this season we’ve played a lot better in general, it’s been nothing like last season.

I get the results have not matched but it seems some on here are so committed to him being shit, they can’t assess the performances of this season alone which have been a marked improvement. Read the article Sky have just done on us, the difference between this season and last season is night and day.

But no one on here is saying.
‘To be fair we look a lot better but he needs results now’

It’s always:
‘I’ve been ETH out since (insert ancient date to show deep football knowledge), then add some slur about him being a fraud, then say something about how it’s the same as last season.

He may well get sacked but it is demonstrably better from all the underlying stats than last season.
 
Sarni said:
So basically you do genuinely believe our game v them this year was close, we just lacked finishing and on another day we could have won / drawn it.

Obviously us creating all these 'chances' after they already had the game secured has nothing to do with xG looking like that. xG stats are really not reliable when the game is over at half time.

Actually, our game at OT last year had xG almost identical to 0-5 drubbing, even worse than that (0.87 vs 3.92). Yet we somehow drew 2-2 and were close to winning. :lol:
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I don’t know about winning it, but Zirkzee had essentially two shots from about 2 metres out so I’d hope we’d have at least scored. Again, you seem una le to comprehend that I’m saying it wasn’t as bad as the 0-5…I just realised you might be the Ole fanatic in which case I now understand.

I’m confused why you’ve put a smiley face as if you’ve proven something? You’ve given some stats which show we played poorly and yet we drew? Versus playing poorly and getting hammered?
 
I do think there’s improvements this season, I personally wouldn’t stick with it though as long term I don’t think he’s got it in him to deliver in the league. But my guess is we will stick with him for a little while longer, so who knows, maybe it’ll click and a miracle will happen.
 
Redstain said:
Erik is hands down the worst manager of the top teams I can think of in Europe.

He's a disaster, he's inconsistent and his very best season was a culmination of the imprint of two different managers which he's severely struggled to move away from.

After 650 million spent is there a manager at that ballpark who has made such little progress in over three seasons? I personally cannot recollect such an experience of failure let alone comprehend it.

INEOS dropped the ball, they showed all the right signs in approaching other coaches but likely made a mess of negotiations in coming to terms.

United are nothing more 10-6th position team under his management, it's a perfect reflection in caliber of his competence.

After such a shambolic season last year Erik could only have started well, he didn't have the credibility or leg room to do anything other than win the majority of the opening games regardless of opposition (exception of Arsenal / City).

He's already planted the foundations for another season where United enter into double digits for games lost by February / March.

There's no way on this earth the club persist with him.
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I have won more cups than everyone except Manshesteh City. I feel very sorry for you heh.
 
Crimson King said:
It's not that simple. We sacked Moyes within 10 months, and LvG as soon as things started to turn, despite an FA cup win. Mourinho too, arguably, after winning a couple of trophies the season before.

Being ruthless hasn't worked. Being patient hasn't worked. We're in this predicament because, more often than not, we've hired the wrong people and signed the wrong players.

The new execs seem to have started turning around the latter, but we'll have to wait and see if they have better luck appointing a manager.
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It's not the only factor granted but it's been a major one.

And we've been anything but ruthless. Ruthless would have been sacking Moyes in December, Jose and Ole in July when it was clear they weren't going to make us challengers instead of letting it get worse and worse in the hope they could turn it around.
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
I don’t know about winning it, but Zirkzee had essentially two shots from about 2 metres out so I’d hope we’d have at least scored. Again, you seem una le to comprehend that I’m saying it wasn’t as bad as the 0-5…I just realised you might be the sole fanatic in which case I now understand.

I’m confused why you’ve put a smiley face as if you’ve proven something? You’ve given some stats which show we played poorly and yet we drew? Versus playing poorly and getting hammered?
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Yeah, when the game was over. Our xG in the first half when the game wasn't yet done was a whopping 0.08.

This was not a close game at all, we were not 'unlucky with finishing', we were just absolutely horrible. Both these games Liverpool finished within 50 minutes (in which we did not even come close to threatening them) and then cruised for the rest of it, only real difference is 3 goals v 5 goals. It will probably be the same next time we play them as it's been a pattern for our games against them for years (the odd difference being the FA Cup game), they outclass us everytime.
 
Idxomer said:
The football isn't good but he also can't manage the game to save his life.

He keeps making that move of subbing a player in a certain position only to move him to a different one 10 minutes later. How does that help the player or the team find any rhythm in the game and what does it say about the manager's confidence in his decisions?
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Yep classic Erik and it makes little sense.
 
Sarni said:
Yeah, when the game was over. Our xG in the first half when the game wasn't yet done was a whopping 0.08.

This was not a close game at all, we were not 'unlucky with finishing', we were just absolutely horrible. Both these games Liverpool finished within 50 minutes (in which we did not even come close to threatening them, both times) and then cruised for the rest of it, only real difference is 3 goals v 5 goals.
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Man you are persistent. Your argument scuppers you completely because in the 0-5 it was quite literally all in one half so, again, explain how they are the same?

If you can’t think of something backed up by a fact please spare the thread.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
I am not surprised by the result last night or the knee jerk reactions this morning.

He got it wrong last night, he should have rotated and given the chance to some of the fringe players to impress but he picked most of the starters in what was a meaningless game tbh.

Its no surprised they put in such a performance, most of them were probably thinking they were going to be rested for the weekend.

ETH really does not help himself at times, but its early in the season and he knows his job is on the line and there are no excuses so i would expect us to improve.

There are grounds for optimism though, we are creating chances in the league but are not putting them away, i think we are way clear in the big chances missed this season so its up to the players to start putting them away.

We should have a better idea after the Spurs and Villa games.
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How exactly was it a meaningless game? For fecks sake we're lucky to even be in the Europa League never mind thinking it's beneath us.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The problem is 24/25 is just 5 matches so the ranking will be less stable.
Right now Arsenal are ranked 15th on xG but nobody seriously believes that'll be true by the end of the season or that they can't attack.
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Also XG is the most useless BS stat anyway, fecking hate it and all the BS coming out of the massive expansion of the stat betting industry.... XG is like the latest thing that all the stat bell ends bang on about yet it is based on subjective information and unfortunately it is not comprehensive enough to be nearly as useful an indicator as people would make out, it is a manipulator used by the betting industry and little more!
 
I wonder, when he says in his third season and 600 mil spent, that we are in transition, does he really think that or it is tactical excuse to low demands?
I would rather have lying manager than deluded one.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Man you are persistent. Your argument scuppers you completely because in the 0-5 it was quite literally all in one half so, again, explain how they are the same?

If you can’t think of something backed up by a fact please spare the thread.
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Both games were done at 50th minute mark - fact
We created absolutely nothing before the game was done in both games - fact

Matters very little if they chose to stop playing at 3-0 or 5-0, both performances were utterly embarrassing.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
But this simply isn’t true. This is what I don’t get. Assuming we all watch our games, this season we’ve played a lot better in general, it’s been nothing like last season.

I get the results have not matched but it seems some on here are so committed to him being shit, they can’t assess the performances of this season alone which have been a marked improvement. Read the article Sky have just done on us, the difference between this season and last season is night and day.

But no one on here is saying.
‘To be fair we look a lot better but he needs results now’

It’s always:
‘I’ve been ETH out since (insert ancient date to show deep football knowledge), then add some slur about him being a fraud, then say something about how it’s the same as last season.

He may well get sacked but it is demonstrably better from all the underlying stats than last season.
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The changes are not marked enough to overcome the plethora of issues that are tied to the manager like an anchor.

If you're talking about being objective, then answer these questions objectively:

1. Has his in-game management improved, at all? If yes, in what way(s)?

2. Has he shown improvement in 2nd half of games' management?

3. Do you think it is finishing alone that would change our season, up 'til now, around?

4. Is he doing well with the squad at his disposal?

5. Has he outcoached any team outside of the Barnsley game?

Now if you are being objective, you'll answer these with no spin or self-serving regardless of what that concludes as.
 
Sarni said:
I think among people who are happy with him to stay there are only two groups remaining. People who have invested so much of their personal stock in him, on this forum and elsewhere, that they feel as if they are somehow obliged to stand by him (even if it appears to defy common sense), and the second group which are people who are hinging on that tiny little chance that he turns things around (how unlikely it may seem) and it will make them look like geniuses and proper top fans for standing by their manager in times of adversity (it's basically a 100/1 bet at this point, but one that would grant you ultimate bragging rights should things unravel the right way). Both these groups are never going to turn around and stop supporting him.

Everyone else seems to have already moved to 'Sack' part of the floor, even those who stood by him last year citing 'unprecedented historical injury crisis' as the only reason for our underperformance.
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Yeah I think the penny may have finally dropped with a lot of people on that one.
 
hobbers said:
All this suggests is that you aren't thinking.
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Precisely, many managers have produced better results than us over a longer period of time with much less resources spent on the squad.

That argument people use is dumb. If your pen wasn't working you wouldn't just keep using it, you'd try another and if that didn't work...you'd try another.

The same logic is used for replacing players with no qualms and by other clubs with their managers but here...ugh
 
The writing is on the wall and has been there since last year. I was ambivalent about keeping him but the options were not great so I was fine with giving him another season and with hopefully some more steel in midfield and hopefully Shaw would come back and Hojlund would kick on. Most of that didnt happen so here we are again.

I don't think ETH is a bad manager, but at the end of the day, the results are what matters most. We had a horrible UCL and were shit in the league, those are the real markers for success, not the Carabao cup. For whatever reason it is not working out. There is nothing to suggest we will kick on from here with ETH. He will continue to have bad/mixed results until December and INEOS will get rid. I'm pretty certain of this.
 
Sarni said:
I don't think there's any chance in hell of us finishing above any of City, Arsenal and Liverpool but under normal circumstances we should be capable of fighting it out for 4th with Chelsea, Tottenham, Villa and maybe a couple others.
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We have the squad now to challenge for 4th - but, sadly, we don’t have the manager to achieve that.
 
Fortitude said:
The changes are not marked enough to overcome the plethora of issues that are tied to the manager like an anchor.

If you're talking about being objective, then answer these questions objectively:

1. Has his in-game management improved, at all? If yes, in what way(s)? Early days into the season but no

2. Has he shown improvement in 2nd half of games' management? Same as above. Early days, but this season he has the options on bench to make changes that can help us push on to win the game and he has so far failed to do that.

3. Do you think it is finishing alone that would change our season, up 'til now, around? Yes, with better finishing we would have won games against Brighton and Palace and the game against Fulham would have a more convincing scoreline.

4. Is he doing well with the squad at his disposal? No, he can do better

5. Has he outcoached any team outside of the Barnsley game? I'd say he outcoached Brighton, Palace, Fulham, Southampton, even City(if we are taking CS into account). Against, Liverpool we were in the game until 23rd minute where Casemiro went nuclear and after that we didn't deserve anything, even if we had couple of chances. Same story against Twente, controlled the first half fairly well, but didn't do nearly enough to say we deserved a win.

Now if you are being objective, you'll answer these with no spin or self-serving regardless of what that concludes as.
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Not the poster you asked but I'll have a go at it. Assuming we are only talking about this season, as ETH essentially been given another lifeline to show he has something about himself and that this season might be different.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
But this simply isn’t true. This is what I don’t get. Assuming we all watch our games, this season we’ve played a lot better in general, it’s been nothing like last season.

I get the results have not matched but it seems some on here are so committed to him being shit, they can’t assess the performances of this season alone which have been a marked improvement. Read the article Sky have just done on us, the difference between this season and last season is night and day.

But no one on here is saying.
‘To be fair we look a lot better but he needs results now’

It’s always:
‘I’ve been ETH out since (insert ancient date to show deep football knowledge), then add some slur about him being a fraud, then say something about how it’s the same as last season.

He may well get sacked but it is demonstrably better from all the underlying stats than last season.
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Because the improvement is from literally relegation worthy underlying stats, to a team that finishes 8th place on merit underlying stats. Better, but wasteful, attacking stats and the same, but improved to mid table rather than relegation form, weaknesses at the back.

You can't have it both ways. If you're going to argue these stats are important then you genuinely need us to believe that a Manchester United manager should not be sacked for delivering relegation quality performances over the course of a season according to these metrics. If you don't think they're important and the 'results' ten Hag achieved in spite of the underlying stats last season save him, then you can't complain now when people are pissed off that the results continue to be shit.

But I think you and I both know this. The simple fact is ten Hag started the season on borrowed time and had to hit the ground running. With the best will in the world he hasn't done that and unless he can string together performances and results immediately he's not going to last much longer. The bar is as low as it's ever been for a United manager, and he simply doesn't have the credit in the bank not to reach it.
 
stevoc said:
It's not the only factor granted but it's been a major one.

And we've been anything but ruthless. Ruthless would have been sacking Moyes in December, Jose and Ole in July when it was clear they weren't going to make us challengers instead of letting it get worse and worse in the hope they could turn it around.
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I think a big part of that was the unwillingness of the Glazers to sack and replace people. It gets expensive.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
But this simply isn’t true. This is what I don’t get. Assuming we all watch our games, this season we’ve played a lot better in general, it’s been nothing like last season.

I get the results have not matched but it seems some on here are so committed to him being shit, they can’t assess the performances of this season alone which have been a marked improvement. Read the article Sky have just done on us, the difference between this season and last season is night and day.

But no one on here is saying.
‘To be fair we look a lot better but he needs results now’

It’s always:
‘I’ve been ETH out since (insert ancient date to show deep football knowledge), then add some slur about him being a fraud, then say something about how it’s the same as last season.

He may well get sacked but it is demonstrably better from all the underlying stats than last season.
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The stats don’t really matter, but the results do. The table doesn’t lie. We’ve had a relatively easy fixture list so far, with only Liverpool that should have been our only real test. As we stand today Newcastle, Brighton. Forest and Fulham are all above us. That’s a disgrace.
 
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