No one seems to get this. Does my head in that our fans act like we are axing 2 managers a year when the reality is the United manager gets more rope than any other big club in the world.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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Only think that makes him so unlikeable for me is the seeming lack of accountability. Such a shit trait for a person in leadership to have
We're at home. The result could be anything.
If they nick an early goal it could get ugly.
Can't wait.
Would make zero difference to his training, squad selection and tactical competency. It’s really quite irrelevant.
Fixed
Good points!
How can they continue with the current regime, with ETH sitting at the head of it. The team has an injury riddled squad, far in excess of any other team in the EPL or any Utd team in memory, so ETH has training methods which suck and how apparent are the failings onfield.
As much as the new structure can suggest they weren’t in place when a decision was made, if what has happened this season doesn’t confirm what a poor EPL manager he is then what will. The evidence through playing style, signings and training just underline his weakness, move him on now or watch the club disintegrate before the end of the year, that’s how bad it has become.
As much as the new structure can suggest they weren’t in place when a decision was made, if what has happened this season doesn’t confirm what a poor EPL manager he is then what will. The evidence through playing style, signings and training just underline his weakness, move him on now or watch the club disintegrate before the end of the year, that’s how bad it has become.
I'll be even more bemused confused and bewildered by INEOS if we lose saturday and he gets sacked. In some ways that will be even more mental. I wouldn't be disappointed, granted, but it would be bizarre.
LVG and Mourinho were very much not at their peak, and neither Moyes nor Ole could possibly be considered the best in class at their peak, actually ETH is the only manager post SAF you could actually point to and say we went for one of the hottest properties in terms of a manager.
The issue I have with your opinion (which I understand and to which your are of course entitled), is that yes the results have not been good enough, you can point at bad stats and yes that is disappointing, but for me the biggest issue is the performance level, in his first season after the terrible start ETH reverted to an improved version of Ole-ball, and we had some good games, but the last 10 games of that season were a struggle, and the final v NU was awful barring the goals, the second season I could point to a couple or three decent performances (including the fa cup), this season we see no improvement in any department, the system that ETH persists with is just not working and hasn't been working since he came, the only time we do anything is when he reverts to Ole-ball, and yet despite the obvious flaws in the system being obvious to everyone and having them pointed out publicly you can guarantee that v Brentford at the weekend we will see the same shite again.
So my issue is, and why I want ETH to be replaced ASAP is there is zero progress, in fact we are generally worse than when we fired Ole, at least under Ole I could not see us finishing 8th and potentially lower with a negative goal difference 2 seasons running, (don't get me wrong I am not saying that we should have Ole as our manager), ETH is making us actively worse, this squad is easily capable of pushing top 4 but ETH has us playing like bottom 4, and I am fed up of hearing trust the process when after all this time we can see there is nothing to show from it.
The thing with the Porto game was that we should not have been 2-0 up, they were the better team before 2 Rashford sprints and 2 awful GK errors, as soon as they regained their equilibrium Porto were comfortably the better team again, before the season started I would happily have taken a draw at Porto and Fenebache away ties in Europe are always tough, but the rest of the shite we have been dished up is the issue
It would make them look stupid for not firing during the break but a draw or a loss should see him sacked by all rights
Won't look so bad if they used the break to get their post-sack plan in place, then have it all sorted for the day after he's sacked.
But if we lose to Brentford, you just know that Ten Hag will go on a 3 day holiday immediately following the match so that nobody can contact him
Can't believe we've got to endure more of this shite. I genuinely thought he'd be gone after the last round of matches.
There's a feeling of irrelevance around these games now. We won't close the gap on top 4 with Ten Hag as manager and even if we do win tomorrow, it'll be narrowly and then the next crisis is just around the corner.
After Brentford we've got Fenerbace and West Ham away. Won't win either of those. What a monumental waste of time.
There's a feeling of irrelevance around these games now. We won't close the gap on top 4 with Ten Hag as manager and even if we do win tomorrow, it'll be narrowly and then the next crisis is just around the corner.
After Brentford we've got Fenerbace and West Ham away. Won't win either of those. What a monumental waste of time.
I've said this so many times now I've given up trying to predict what exactly gets him fired. We could lose 3-0 tomorrow and I still half expect him to keep his job.
There was nothing good about those points. Porto was a complete mess and we should have lost, and we were only ahead due to goalkeeping errors.
The Aston Villa game... where do I start? Villa played absolutely atrociously, and Ten Hag set the team up to defend to try and save his job. He abandoned his principles for self preservation.
It's an utterly pathetic situation and as I've mentioned before, he'll only ever be one bad result away from the sack. Totally unsustainable. Time is up.
It’s a great strategy to be fair.
Avoid the sack by constantly going on holiday.The results under Erik ten Hag and the football we've been playing have been absolute dogshit for a long time now. It's clear that he's struggling to keep up with the demands of the Premier League. By now, he should have been replaced, but INEOS have made their choice, and I hope they stick with it. It would be absurd if his job hinges on a single result or game. Either they support the direction he's taken for over a year, or they don't. If one result suddenly changes their decision, it would show that they are just as poor at running the football side as the previous American rats.
I really can't see how he still has a job but what the feck do I know.
I really can't see how he still has a job but what the feck do I know.
What's disappointing is that he doesn't seem to have learned anything about the strengths or weaknesses of his players, or evolved tactically. Virtually every substitution is planned before the match and, like team selection, seems to have absolutely nothing to do with how well or poorly someone is playing or what we need tactically.
Rashford appalling for two years, plays virtually every minute of every game. He looks decent for once and he's pulled off in a preplanned substitution due to "rotation". The guy might as well go get a coffe and a bacon sandwich when the match is on because nothing he ever does is influenced by what happens on the pitch.
We just keep plugging away with the same approach hoping we get lucky and stumble across a team either so bad or having an off day, that his approach works. The stopped clock being right twice a day tactics.
It would be amazing if just once following a bad team or individual performance, he showed any evidence he's paid any attention whatsoever
Rashford appalling for two years, plays virtually every minute of every game. He looks decent for once and he's pulled off in a preplanned substitution due to "rotation". The guy might as well go get a coffe and a bacon sandwich when the match is on because nothing he ever does is influenced by what happens on the pitch.
We just keep plugging away with the same approach hoping we get lucky and stumble across a team either so bad or having an off day, that his approach works. The stopped clock being right twice a day tactics.
It would be amazing if just once following a bad team or individual performance, he showed any evidence he's paid any attention whatsoever
You know it'll be just good enough results in next few games for him to continue managing in November. No big club would give him this much time and he probably knows it.
This highlights just how tactically limited he is. We've had numerous poor performances where it's obvious to everyone that things aren't working, yet he sticks to the same predictable changes, seemingly hoping for a miracle rather than making meaningful adjustments to his tactics. But let's blame the players.
Of course he should but yeah exactly like you said it would make INEOS and all involved look daft. It’s a pathetic mess.
It's so demoralising going into the next batch of fixtures knowing he's somehow still here so we're going to see more of the same horrible dull bad football.
Sigh.
Wondering what it will take to finally make them pull the trigger.
Sigh.
Wondering what it will take to finally make them pull the trigger.
This give the manager time is really getting on my nerves. We're not in 1987 anymore. The role Sir Alex and Sir Matt had is gone. Their job is broken in a million roles from DOF to Sporting director right to technical director, academy manager, chief scouts and data analysts. Sir Alex latter reign saw him transitioning from manager to Sporting director in all but name as most of the day to day things were handled by Phelan and Rene.
These days managers are glorified PE teachers. Their job is to conduct training, make sure that the squad is properly motivated and win games on the pitch. Sure he might have a say on transfers but that can be overruled. Even the likes of Klopp has to bow to that system and for good reason. Managers tend to want their own men as they strengthen their hand in and out of the dressing room. Just listen to the UNITED SEG telling his audience that on one hand ETH must be backed in January and on the other hand sacking ETH would cost us 200m as his squad (the Eredivisie one) will probably be made redundant after the manager is gone. Making themselves too expensive to get rid off is one of the ways managers gain control over things.
Managers these days are judged on progression. Are we moving forward yes or no? If the answer is no then he should be sacked
These days managers are glorified PE teachers. Their job is to conduct training, make sure that the squad is properly motivated and win games on the pitch. Sure he might have a say on transfers but that can be overruled. Even the likes of Klopp has to bow to that system and for good reason. Managers tend to want their own men as they strengthen their hand in and out of the dressing room. Just listen to the UNITED SEG telling his audience that on one hand ETH must be backed in January and on the other hand sacking ETH would cost us 200m as his squad (the Eredivisie one) will probably be made redundant after the manager is gone. Making themselves too expensive to get rid off is one of the ways managers gain control over things.
Managers these days are judged on progression. Are we moving forward yes or no? If the answer is no then he should be sacked
Everything surrounding the man is limited. You mentioned tactics and you're right. He's got no plan B apart from that of using counter attacking football which is the basics of football. However the same can be said about his training methods. How many times have we heard that he's running the team to the ground? Last season our squad was plagued with injuries and by the looks of it he's doing the same this season. Then there's his lack of charisma that is felt the moment he opens his mouth.
Managers have ceilings. ETH ceiling is way below Manchester United.
They haven't had long in place but unfortunately football moves quickly and the decisions taken by ineos and their new people have made an already bad situation worse.
It was obvious ten hag should have been moved on in the summer but we didn't just keep him we backed him with significant spending.
Most of the signings made appear suspiciously like they were directed by him, this is an odd thing to do given ten hag was likely to be gone by Christmas. It's very easy to imagine some of those signings will be cast aside by the next manager.
Given our psr position, it would have seemed more prudent to hold back on some signings if our new dof wasn't fully on board to direct transfer activity or if we weren't sure about the type if football we want to play going forward
Since when?
The reports are that Yoro and Ugarte were club-led signings. Zirkzee also has no particular connection to ETH other than being Dutch, nor was it reported anywhere I can see that he was an ETH-led signing.
De Ligt has an obvious connection to ETH, but ETH outright said that the club suggested the signing. Which tracks given all the reports that the club had interest in him when he made his prior moves to Juve and Bayern. We also know we were initially interested in Branthwaite, again with zero indication that was a particularly ETH-led pursuit either.
That leaves Mazraoui, the cheapest of the signings, replacing a player who who was out of contract next summer, and offering an obvious upgrade on him.
It's hardly some massive commitment to ETH personally, unless you start making unfounded assumptions about who "directed" these transfers.
We know ETH has a veto, so targets will all be okayed by him, but that doesn't mean he drove them. And in the case of several of them, it's been directly reported he didn't.
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We’ll surely we’ll have to win again some time this season? From reading this forum, you’d think we’re on our way towards relegation.
This game to game approach is absolutely crap. So if he wins 2 of the next 3/4 that's good enough? Fed up.
I am not really sure that this is true, probably we will win again under ETH if he remains employed, however I could not tell you right now which team in the prem I think we are actually better than at the moment or would probably beat.
As for relegation, if we continue to play like we have been there is every chance we would be in the relegation fight, I am not sure what matches other people are watching but we have been the worst team for at least half of every game we have played this season, we have had odd short spells within games where we are on top, but other than we are Man Utd "too big and too much quality to go down" I am not sure where the optimism comes from, 14th flatters us right now, spawny against Fulham, and were 2nd best to Southampton for 30+ minutes, but for that penalty save we would probably have lost, that is 6 of the 8 points we have!
Well we are 14th....
My general assumption is we'll continue to lose and draw most of our away games and scrape wins at home against mid table and lower clubs. Basically what it's been for the last 18 months.
A bit simplified but I agree. What we ought to do when saying “give him time” is define it - what do we mean by that phrase?
I think that most clubs lack patience nowadays, but I also think we’ve shown ETH more than enough. When I use the phrase “give him time” it means that a few bad games shouldn’t determine whether or not we sack a manager. But we should quite quickly be able to see where the manager wants the team to be in a season.
Take Thomas Frank who lost his first 8 games in charge of Brentford. It was of course very worrying, but the direction was clear and they were unlucky with a couple of the results based on XG. After those 8 games he hasn’t looked back. A clear style of play in the championship, another, but also clear, style in the prem, all his players always know excactly what to do. But that’s only the case because the club gave him time.
Arteta, Klopp (and now Ange maybe) were give time as well because it was evident where they wanted to take their teams - and because the improved them gradually, even though the process could be frustrating.
Contrast that to us and ETH who has had seasons to implement a clear style of play and buy the players he wants, but still no one can see where he wants the team to go. The last straw for me is that he has not been able to make the team tick even with all his favorites on the pitch.
Ten Hag has said in his press conference today that we need to "stick to the plan"
His quotes are nauseating, it's the media's fault he's a crap manager!
It's also possible they gave him 5 options for every position. And he vetoed every option other than the Ajax/Dutch players for RB, CB and CF.
And to be fair Ten Hag didn't sign the new contract that Ineos reportedly wanted him to sign to remove some of his powers. So he'll still have the same level of control of transfers that he had prior to the takeover. Supposedly one of the hold ups in the Ugarte deal was Ten Hag didn't want him and had to be convinced over a number of weeks.
If you look at it objectively if this was an Ineos led window then it's a bit of a coincidence that 3 of the 5 signings we made are all Dutch and/or ex Ajax. Carrying on the trend from the previous 2 summer windows.
As the club languishes in 14th place, ten Hag thinks it is a “fairytale” to write that he may be on the brink of being sacked.
He puts the “Dutch” in Dutch van der Linde.
Big words for the manager of Manchester United who is currently 14th in the table after spending hundreds of millions.
I bet "process" came up in his first sentence
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