Gordon S
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2018
- Messages
- 4,163
When we were coached by another stubborn dutch and former Ajax manager iirc…It's not worse than the MK Don's days.
Mk Dons 4 United 0
When we were coached by another stubborn dutch and former Ajax manager iirc…It's not worse than the MK Don's days.
Mk Dons 4 United 0
England, Brighton and Newcastle seem to have done well since his time at the clubs so he is certainly doing something right. Hopefully the people we have can complement eachother and make it work.I think he’s average. He’s probably good at building departments, making them work together, but I don't trust him to make good football decisions because he’s too close to bang average coaches like Southgate and Boothroyd. It might not matter much depending on Wilcox and Berrada’s influence
England, Brighton and Newcastle seem to have done well since his time at the clubs so he is certainly doing something right. Hopefully the people we have can complement eachother and make it work.
The major problem is they are not in charge of BHA, anymore. The odd CL finish is not good enough. They need to be involved with title races and the business end of all cup competitions.
Berrada has it in his locker, as does Blanc, but both were involved with sports-washing regimes which, of course, don't play with an even hand.
One thing we cannot be tolerant of is repeated failure going rewarded. Mates rates, and the like. If we are not going in the right direction, executive heads need to roll.
Correct. Ashworth is an FA man, an “FA-type” through and through. I’d rather we just got rid of him and let Berrada and Wilcox run it. There’s too many of them IMO, and Ashworth is the one with the mediocre record. No wonder he’s stalling on sacking Ten Hag. He probably thinks a season in mid table is pretty good.
His philosophy on the ball is to play from the back and being aggressive in attack. Basically, as the ball is progressed, he wants everyone to go all out attack, which allows his team to be vulnerable from counter attack but in return the teams will get to create lot of chances. It reflects to the amount of times we conceded goals from losing possession in dangerous area but also having high xG. The number 1 issue about the risk we are taking in his philosophy is we have average and inexperienced attackers who tend to make poor decision making on the final third such as not being clinical and trying to shoot in difficult angle rather than pass/cross. That means there is no balance in this risk because we don’t have world class and clinical attackers who can overweight the high risk of being vulnerable in defense.
His philosophy off the ball is to be proactive by defending man to man. The PL requires great physicality to defend one v one or man to man. We lack the physicality to defend man to man. When I said physicality, I’m not just talking about strength but also stamina, fitness, and also pace.
Ten hag is very naive and too stubborn to adapt. Currently, the risks in his philosophy overweight the benefits due to both of the players he have and the physical demands in PL. He needs to adapt to succeed in here. Pep adapts, he used to play with overlapping full backs in Barcelona, but in PL, he played centre back with great physicality and good on the ball as full backs to adapt with PL’s physical environment and still maintain his philosophy of playing.
May be by playing different formation or structure and still maintain his philosophy by identifying the weakness and the risk of his philosophy and how changing the structure of the team will help ten hag to reduce the risk of his philosophy. I think the idea of playing 352/343 could help him because one, you’re adding centre back in this formation so that means you’re adding another player with more physicality than someone like Antony, Garnacho, Amad, or Rashford. Then, Having 3 centre back means you add extra body during the build up phase means if somehow the team loses possession in midfield, you have 3 players behind to cover.
If that's what he needs to do and hasn't done it yet despite it clearly not working then he's not a very good manager. Time to go buddy
Unlikely, but none of us know for sure.So you think being 14th is not below their objectives?
What I'm getting is that if we sack Ashworth now, we'll know to blame Wilcox in 3 months so we can sack him too. Then 3 months later, we'll know it's all Berrada's fault, so we can give him the boot. Of course this will eventually lead to there being nobody left to blame, which will be very difficult for many to contend with. But until then, there will always be a clear person to focus their rage on, which will give them a sense of purpose and fulfillment, or something.What's mediocre about Ashworth's record?
Also, what's so great about the records of Berrada and Wilcox?
Ashworth seems to have done a job good at the places where he worked. Now he needs to step up because its United. It's the same for the others.
Sir Jim of Brexit publically declined to say whether he still has faith in Ten Hag when asked by the BBC on October 4th. Weird way to back him.He was already publicly backed a few weeks ago?
Sir Jim of Brexit publically declined to say whether he still has faith in Ten Hag when asked by the BBC on October 4th. Weird way to back him.
The players probably look good in training because they’re playing against each other.
Good postThe 'win percentage' is such a stupid stat. ETH would also have a higher 'loss percentage', and it'd be just as stupid if people were focusing only on that. Points per game (ppg) is the most accurate way to do it as it evens out wins, draws and losses with their respective weightings.
Ultimately, neither manager is clearly ahead of the other. Their ppg is almost identical, to the extent that ETH is fractionally ahead at the moment but will drop below Ole if we lose our next game. ETH won two domestic cups, but had an easier run of fixtures in those cups. Meanwhile Ole did better in Europe, despite probably having slightly harder fixtures.
The only real difference is that ETH's good period was all bundled together in one big batch, then his bad period has likewise been all bundled together. Whereas Ole constantly had smaller runs of form for a few months where we were good, then a few months of bad, then good, then bad, etc. I would say that Ole's good periods were clearly better and more fun to watch than ETH's though.
Am sure you’ll like it. It’s a good place with good people. I know it was tongue-in-cheek, but I don’t think you’ll find ETH particularly representative, he’s a bit of a one off.Maybe the current management team wants to show that they can withstand pressure to make difficult decisions. Fine. Let's see how this pans out till the end of the season. I won't really be watching United's games if we still have sucky tactics, but will stay in touch enough in way which does not impact on my mental health. Ironically, I will probably be relocating to the Netherlands for work and have to understand the Dutch psyche anyway. Studying EtH probably gives me a better sense of how they think. An unusual and fascinating people indeed.
Pigeon, that’s all very well, but if any of the usual suspects had put their hands up and admitted they were wrong, I’m sure we wouldn’t be getting the ‘I told you so’ posts from the other usual suspects.Yes, yes. You were right. Well done. Can we please move the feck on from all of these "I told you so, look how clever I was" posts from the usual suspects, please?
I just came to type this. I really can’t believe a manager has survived this horrible run of results overall and his appalling stats in Europe. We are one point less than our last year abysmal campaign! I know it’s too soon but with the way we are playing, I don’t see redemption for him and our teamCan’t believe he hasn’t got to feck yet.
Also it would mean, training against poor team mates, will be easy, but when competing against top quality opposition you will be found out.It would point to Eth not being capable of motivating the players on match day. Lacking poor man management skills. In the past he's often spoke about building a strong, fit, robust team that runs more than the opposition. This never materialised, and in most games we are the ones being overrun, outran, out muscled and out scored !!
I genuinely thought he was going to be sacked this week. Now that that didn't happen... November international break is the next logical break point, and if not then the summer. Sadly I get the feeling the cost to sack him is playing too big of a role for the new owners.
The 'win percentage' is such a stupid stat. ETH would also have a higher 'loss percentage', and it'd be just as stupid if people were focusing only on that. Points per game (ppg) is the most accurate way to do it as it evens out wins, draws and losses with their respective weightings.
Ultimately, neither manager is clearly ahead of the other. Their ppg is almost identical, to the extent that ETH is fractionally ahead at the moment but will drop below Ole if we lose our next game. ETH won two domestic cups, but had an easier run of fixtures in those cups. Meanwhile Ole did better in Europe, despite probably having slightly harder fixtures.
The only real difference is that ETH's good period was all bundled together in one big batch, then his bad period has likewise been all bundled together. Whereas Ole constantly had smaller runs of form for a few months where we were good, then a few months of bad, then good, then bad, etc. I would say that Ole's good periods were clearly better and more fun to watch than ETH's though.
Some people here think any of this guy can make big mistakes because they are « football people ».I think he’s average. He’s probably good at building departments, making them work together, but I don't trust him to make good football decisions because he’s too close to bang average coaches like Southgate and Boothroyd. It might not matter much depending on Wilcox and Berrada’s influence
We have one of the most expansive team in the world and it’s easier to get motivated for 2 FA cup games than for an entire season.I think you can point to lots of individual moments, but at the end of the day, winning a cup and beating big teams on the way takes a bit more than luck. The majority of teams never win any trophies, including teams like Spurs who have lots of good players.
A side point, but I also think United’s fan base is a big part of why we win so many second rate trophies, even when we’re not a great team. Using the Spurs comparison again, they’ve arguably been a better team than United over the last decade, but United have won five (?) trophies in that time, and Spurs have won none. I sometimes wonder whether our huge support is an important factor in this, because our team and management hasn’t been very good in that time.
What's mediocre about Ashworth's record?
Haha thank you for the reassurance! I actually think that EtH maybe has style of speaking which gets fully translated in Dutch with nuances and all. And perhaps his standard of English just gives people the wrong impression of what he really means. Anyway, I am looking to meet really lovely Dutch people in the Netherlands next year!Am sure you’ll like it. It’s a good place with good people. I know it was tongue-in-cheek, but I don’t think you’ll find ETH particularly representative, he’s a bit of a one off.
What do you mean by Ten Hag tactics?
Are we at a point where managers now trademark their tactics?
What do you mean? In his first season we've beaten every single big team at OT. So clearly it's not an isolated statistic. He even beat Barca in Europa League that year.
The thing that gets us in trouble are his suicidal tactics that he abandoned after the 1st season in charge.
How do I know it's not just a fluke?
So while we are currently playing suicide ball, ETH has shown that when he wants to he can ditch that and get us a result as evidenced by matches against City and Pool in the FA cup.
The evident mediocrity of it? Doing a decent job at West Brom. Doing a decent job with England. Doing a short stint at Brighton. Doing a short (and unimpressive) stint at Newcastle.
I'm not saying he's BAD, but he is an FA-type and has his fingerprints on appointing or working with coaches like Hodgson, Boothroyd, Allardyce, Sampson, and Southgate.
Look at City hiring Hugo Viana. Sporting won feck all for years until Viana came in an appointed Amorim and signed hit after hit. That's a standout job. Ashworth has never done a job like that. Maybe he will at United, but no one can say that his record shows he can. I think we've gone all out for someone who is quite middle-of-the-road.
Ashworth might be good at organising a club, but I would hope he does not have the primary say in who we hire as a head coach.
ETH is just as awkward in his native language. He has very poor communication skills and seems to be socially awkward.Haha thank you for the reassurance! I actually think that EtH maybe has style of speaking which gets fully translated in Dutch with nuances and all. And perhaps his standard of English just gives people the wrong impression of what he really means. Anyway, I am looking to meet really lovely Dutch people in the Netherlands next year!
Probably a lower level of money with caveats built in to protect the club, and no absolute control over transfers. Not every coach wants to work like thatI wonder what and how these guys are pitching to potential managers if this and the Tuchel rejected us thing are true. Adult Disneyland requiem.
Probably a lower level of money with caveats built in to protect the club, and no absolute control over transfers. Not every coach wants to work like that
I should probably read your entire conversation but why are you fixated on the paying him upfront? The issue for United as far as I know isn't about cash flow but accounting, if you sack him you have to write the entire cost of his sacking in your books at the date it happened regardless of the payments choices. So if United are in a difficult situation when it comes FFP/FSR then the issue with sacking him is that you have to quickly offset it with a legitimate injection of revenue.
We know the club has many big issues - that's why the club is where it is, cutting costs wherever possible and shaking everything up behind the scenes. Leaning on the line "then there's much bigger issues" in several posts isn't giving anybody anything to think about - we already know there are.
But yeah, I don't know what you're arguing anymore apart from a church&state-style separation between the football and the money, as though the two have no impact on one another.
To make myself as abundantly clear as it is possible to do so without drawing a picture, I have provided a possible reason as to why not everyone at the club is on the same page over Ten Hag's immediate future. Once again, if you have alternative theories, by all means put them forward and we can discuss them.
I'm not, however, particularly interested in digressions that simply restate points I've already addressed, nor am I interested in speculating on the potential payment plan of somebody's outstanding salary beyond what's been reliably reported (because come on now, that just sounds dull as feck), so I'm unwilling to expend further effort on either of those topics with you.
At least we are not watching UTD lose... this is our best run of form in agesIt’s rude to point. God I’m bored I hate these international breaks.
Ratcliffe has made it indirectly clear he wants ETH gone. It's Berrada & Ashworth who are still backing ETHSir Jim of Brexit publically declined to say whether he still has faith in Ten Hag when asked by the BBC on October 4th. Weird way to back him.