Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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We can’t even score goals for the most part whilst Villa are probably the most consistent team outside of the top three over the past couple of years and at home, surely tomorrow is THE end for ETH and even his biggest defenders can’t honestly believe it’s not deserved.

Since the League Cup win we’ve been fecking awful and a couple of trophies doesn’t change that, those trophies are the epitome of putting a plaster on a broken leg.

I pray there’s truth to us approaching Tuchel as short term he’s the sort that’s needed, an actual tactician and hopefully a group of players buoyed by a new manager bounce.
 
soapythecat said:
Ten Hag FC are such an odd bunch, and I’ll never understand why they are so behind such an inept manager. It’s like arguing with flat earth’ers.
The cup wins are probably 2 of the most fortunate trophies in United’s history. We should never have been anywhere near the FA cup final. Yes, celebrating both were amazing but the latter was definitely tinged with the inevitable keeping him on, which I was dead against along with many, many others.
His latest delusional statement about lack of a LB (we all acknowledge we are short here) shows how inept he is setting up a team. It’s clear that Dalot is not a LB but we still try the same stuff, week in, week out, and have the same consequences. If ETH really is such an amazing tactician as we are been told on a daily basis, how can he not address this? Is ETH too tactical and the players are too stupid to remember and implement them?
Given my priorities as a United fan have always been League, Europe then domestic cups, to see his goal of been a cup team, then I don’t see any metric in which I feel he should remain, even if we smash Villa tomorrow. He’s comfortably, and by a long way comfortably, the worst manager in 30/40 years and is so arrogant, he is disliked on a level I’ve never comprehended until recently.
He needs to feck off and take his utterly attriticous signings with him. Long will he be remembered as the manager who made us a mid table team having made the team weaker.
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A manager who has us in relegation form. A manager who could make relegation a very real possibility if he were to remain in charge for the rest of the season. I cannot make sense of his true believers.
 
I'd take us being derailed, he's been driving us the wrong way up the tracks for 18 months.
 
Zumbi said:
No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.
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Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.
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The point is there’s not a single candidate (that we’d consider) that doesn’t have way more upside potential than ETH, while you can scarcely believe anyone could have more downside potential. Which makes sacking him now a no risk/high reward move.
 
moses said:
We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.
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That's already happening though mate. If the form over the last 20 matches continues we could get dragged right down the table and potentially even into a relegation scrap, it's already derailed.

What is a vastly better candidate than the man who's overseen the clusterfeck that has been the last 18 months at United?
 
stevoc said:
That's already happening though mate.

What is a vastly better candidate than the man who's overseen the clusterfeck that has been the last 18 months at United?
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This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.
 
Zumbi said:
No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.
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But that's not what I'm saying we should do.
 
stevoc said:
I'm not sure I am mate we're discussing replacing Ten Hag that isn't nearly as difficult as replacing Alex Ferguson. No one is saying just get anybody in but going out and getting the best available circa October 2024 is probably going to be an improvement on what we currently have which let's be honest is awful. Ten Hag is a good manager but he's obviously a bad fit for the Premier League and Manchester United. Some managers have teams punching above the talent available to them. Ten Hag over the last 18 months has us punching below our weight, virtually in relelgation form. We can't allow that to continue just because there isn't an ideal/good candidate available currently. You never know how someone will perform until they're actually in the job so I'm not sure there's even such a thing as an ideal candidate. Pretty much every managerial appointment is a roll of the dice.
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Exactly. I just can't get my head around the people that say "stick with this shit" because the guy that replaces him might not be the second coming. Every potential employee in every job has the potential to be a good hire or a bad hire and that includes every football manager.

I mean Christ, you've got the evidence right in front of you with this fraud. Let's say 90% of us thought he was going to be a good hire before we appointed him but he's failed spectacularly apart from 2 cups.
 
moses said:
This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.
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What do you mean here exactly?
 
moses said:
We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.
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How much more derailed can it get mate? We’re 14th and look good value for being exactly there. How much worse can someone else make it, 16th?
 
It’s annoying that all hope is lost. Every game under him now is just more and more time wasted.

Just another annoyingly long wait for the axe to fall, as is the custom at Manchester United.
 
Zumbi said:
No. Arguing we should stick with a manager who has us in 13th with relegation form in his last twenty games is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has us 19th in the scoring charts is absurd. Sticking with a manager who has one win in his past ten games in Europe is absurd. Thinking there aren’t numerous other managerial candidates that could do better than that with this squad is absurd.

It is impossible to know if any replacement will be “vastly better”, even if they have the credentials - football is unpredictable. Therefore using that as essential criteria for replacement is a logical absurdity, and it’s that sort of thinking that is the real risk to our club.

Keeping Ten Hag is like choosing to roll a dice whose faces only go 1-3, instead of getting a proper dice that goes 1-6.
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14th*
 
moses said:
You haven't noticed the flux and chaos at Man United?
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Sure. But for a year and a half the excuse was that he was in a Glazer club and needed a proper structure. Now said new structure is the issue? When do the excuses end?
 
Cloud7 said:
How much more derailed can it get mate? We’re 14th and look good value for being exactly there. How much worse can someone else make it, 16th?
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Well we don't know that. But there are so many new players personnel and departments bedding in there is a logic to letting those processes settle a bit. So that's basically why I don't think an interim (bar someone already here) or a anyone will do appointment will work.
 
Jev said:
Sure. But for a year and a half the excuse was that he was in a Glazer club and needed a proper structure. Now said new structure is the issue? When do the excuses end?
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It's not an excuse. It's the context of adding another moving part before we assess how the many already new parts are doing. The wrong appointment could set all that back.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Ten Hag being an awful manager doesn’t mean that we should go for somebody slightly less awful. fecking David Moyes is a better manager, however under no circumstances would I want him managing us again.
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That’s not what I’m arguing.

Obviously Ineos should be aiming for the best available candidate, but it’s easy to argue against any potential replacement by saying even they’re not guaranteed to be a “vastly better candidate”. That’s why such a stipulation is a logical absurdity - success is impossible to predict and even the best managers with the biggest credentials have failed before.

But if you already have a failing manager the only logical thing to do is assess potential replacements and then just hire the best available one. And that person doesn’t have to tick every single box for every single fan for it to still be a logical move that’s less risky than persisting with known failure.
 
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spwd said:
Exactly. I just can't get my head around the people that say "stick with this shit" because the guy that replaces him might not be the second coming. Every potential employee in every job has the potential to be a good hire or a bad hire and that includes every football manager.

I mean Christ, you've got the evidence right in front of you with this fraud. Let's say 90% of us thought he was going to be a good hire before we appointed him but he's failed spectacularly apart from 2 cups.
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But nobody is saying that. I'm saying the calls for anyone but ETH are naive.
 
moses said:
It's not an excuse. It's the context of adding another moving part before we assess how the many already new parts are doing. The wrong appointment could set all that back.
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What are you arguing? That we should not replace Ten Hag or that we should not replace him with a bad manager? I don’t think many would disagree with the latter.
 
moses said:
This is not a binary. There are degrees. The wrong appointment while so many new parts of the structure are bedding could be even more disastrous. It's very hard to know what is and isn't working. There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach rather than juggle and firefight. In my opinion that's what hindered ETH, and would've had a similarly negative effect on anyone who was appointed. Maybe less so or moreso, but it's a factor.
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Well we know Ten Hag and his tactics aren't working, they weren't working before Ineos took over, they weren't working after Ineos took over and they aren't working now in a new season with very few injuries after Ineos have appointed people in key positions in the footballing structure to support him.

So there's one thing pretty obviously not working. Could you make a case that any of Ten Hags struggles this season are down to anything Ratcliffe, Ashworth, Wilcox and Berrada have did since July? Except letting him stay in the job of course.

There is a logic to letting it settle and then letting the new guy coach
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By which time we'll almost certainly not have qualified for the CL for the second season in a row and the new manager having to deal with all the negative consequences of that failure (PSR, financial, sponsorships, attracting players etc).

It would be madness to let this continue for much longer.
 
He will say exactly the same after the match tomorrow. Judge us in may. Wait and see. It’s just no substance at all.
 
At this moment, it’s normal risk-averse people vs gamblers. Gamblers have been watching the downward trend keeps going down further but it also means the awards will be huge if it happens. No one really knows. But no one wants to see us in relegation battle. It’s freaking ridiculous if that happens.
 
Jev said:
What are you arguing? That we should not replace Ten Hag or that we should not replace him with a bad manager? I don’t think many would disagree with the latter.
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Yep, not many people can walk into this job. There's not many who can do it. For instance we were sure that someone who managed Ajax was ready to step up. But whether it was all too much because of the internal chaos or he's been promoted beyond his capabilities we don't know. Personally I didn't know much beyond the Ajax Champions League run but I was willing to back him because of Ajax and the amount of advocates he had on here.

If we had a Klopp or Alonso willing to take over tomorrow I wouldn't be arguing. The idea that a change is more important than the candidate is what I am saying. But as usual on here it's seen as a blind defence of ETH.
 
moses said:
We're rolling too many dice as it stands. Unless it's a vastly better candidate it's a massive risk. New players, new owners, new coaches and new CEO. Add a new manager in and the whole thing could derail spectacularly.
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You mean like eth WAS? It's not a massive risk at all. Like I said in my other post, every single potential employee for every job in the world is basically a 50/50 and even when it's better odds like we thought with ETH he's proven NOTHING is guaranteed however much you expect! We're not far from the relegation zone and basically we're in relegation form so how can it get worse? It's already derailed spectacularly about 18 months ago.
 
moses said:
No, not every candidate is potentially better. That's absurd.
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You have eth under your nose proving you wrong matey. Even someone that had as much potential as eth had has shown it doesn't mean shit until you try.
 
Jev said:
How is it absurd?
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It's not. He's obviously not thinking correctly. Absolutely every manager is a risk as proved by us and many other clubs. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
 
moses said:
Well we don't know that. But there are so many new players personnel and departments bedding in there is a logic to letting those processes settle a bit. So that's basically why I don't think an interim (bar someone already here) or a anyone will do appointment will work.
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I don’t get what you’re getting at. I mean, okay I can see the point you’re trying to make, but that point would have made sense if we were let’s say 9th or so and actually looked like things might turn a little positive.

As it stands we are 14th with a negative goal difference, closer to one of the relegation spots than we are to sixth place, and things just look like they are going to continue getting worse. I don’t think it’s possible to say we don’t know if things can get worse, because the only way someone can do a worse job is if they come in and we lose every single match in every competition, rather than losing most matches and drawing here and there in all competitions like we’re doing right now. I genuinely don’t think it is possible for us to be doing worse than we are doing right now.

To be clear, I’m not saying bring back Moyes or hire Rooney, because those are generally not very good ideas beyond the immediate term, but in the immediate to short term there is no possible way things can get worse.
 
Cloud7 said:
I don’t get what you’re getting at. I mean, okay I can see the point you’re trying to make, but that point would have made sense if we were let’s say 9th or so and actually looked like things might turn a little positive.
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We are one win from 9th or 10th, so you'd understand it more if we beat villa?

Just taking stock of the opinion before people jump on my ass
 
If this guy survives the international break, I know Mourinho is cooking up something nasty for him
 
VP89 said:
We are one win from 9th or 10th, so you'd understand it more if we beat villa?

Just taking stock of the opinion before people jump on my ass
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I would understand the point a bit more, not agree with it. I still think that genuinely any of the other 19 managers in the league would do a better job than ETH in the short term, because the situation has spiralled beyond what he can try to get under control. However not all of them would be a good idea beyond the immediate term.

I am merely discussing the point that sticking with ETH right now is absolutely the worst thing we could be doing. Even if our preferred solution is not available right now, we need to arrest the current decline in some way.

Even if a new ship is the best solution to the issue of your ship sinking, temporarily plugging the leak while you try to get a new ship is better than leaving the ship to sink while saying “if we plug the leak then that might cause another issue somewhere else”
 
Tomorrow should be EtH last game as our manager regardless of the result. We've not been consistently good for a while and Erik doesn't look like the man to pull us back.

We've have some success in the cups but that comes with a few caveats. Favorable drawers, the littlest of offside calls and a few exciting ends to a match.

I don't know who is out there that can make us better but it's not my job find one. I just feel like EtH time at Old Trafford is over and he's just sat waiting for the call to come. It's a shame as I like the bloke and he talks a good game but his tactics are lacking as is his demeanor at the side of the pitch come match days. I long for a good, passionate manager instructing the players where to be, how to attack!

If he's not gone by the end of next week I'd be surprised and disappointed as it would surly mean more dark days ahead.

A new manager may not work but it would give us some hope to cling to and I haven't felt that, consistently, for what feels a lifetime.
 
moses said:
But nobody is saying that. I'm saying the calls for anyone but ETH are naive.
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So you're basically saying we need the replacement to be potentially better while knowing nothing is guaranteed and you have the proof in front of you that even someone as good as eth was expected to be can fail 100%?
 
Cloud7 said:
I would understand the point a bit more, not agree with it. I still think that genuinely any of the other 19 managers in the league would do a better job than ETH in the short term, because the situation has spiralled beyond what he can try to get under control. However not all of them would be a good idea beyond the immediate term.

I am merely discussing the point that sticking with ETH right now is absolutely the worst thing we could be doing. Even if our preferred solution is not available right now, we need to arrest the current decline in some way.

Even if a new ship is the best solution to the issue of your ship sinking, temporarily plugging the leak while you try to get a new ship is better than leaving the ship to sink while saying “if we plug the leak then that might cause another issue somewhere else”
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OK fair enough. There's a lot of people unwilling to give time even if we confidently win tomorrow. I dont think it's a unreasonable opinion from these guys, they've tolerated as much as they can.
 
hobbers said:
I would gladly trade that poxy league cup for not being humiliated in the CL later in the year and not experiencing the 7-0 a week later. No one will ever look back fondly on that league cup win. It only exists to make Ten Hag fans feel better.
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Yeah the CL humiliation was uncomfortable, however the 7-0 is a permanent scar especially when you think it was only 1-0 at HT
 
croadyman said:
Yeah the CL humiliation was uncomfortable, however the 7-0 is a permanent scar especially when you think it was only 1-0 at HT
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When I was saying this, almost full forum bashed me and said that mickey mouse cup is better even if it meant getting pornhubed by fkin liverpool scum. Here we are, almost 2 year from that point, still getting trashed.
 
If Villa score early tomorrow, we’re going to get flambéed. A big, red, sizzling plume of panic and despair. Emery has already said he wants to see a big performance from his side and not to act small time, revelling in the CL victory.

The atmosphere will be cracking and we’re well down on confidence with no leaders in sight on or off the pitch. If they score early, I think we’ll be lucky to leave with less than a 4-goal deficit. Fun times.
 
Fortitude said:
If Villa score early tomorrow, we’re going to get flambéed. A big, red, sizzling plume of panic and despair. Emery has already said he wants to see a big performance from his side and not to act small time, revelling in the CL victory.

The atmosphere will be cracking and we’re well down on confidence with no leaders in sight on or off the pitch. If they score early, I think we’ll be lucky to leave with less than a 4-goal deficit. Fun times.
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Imagine what it might be like against Brentford as well, who like to score within a minute.
 
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